Seventh-day Adventist vs Seventh-day Baptist - differences and similarities

[BobRyan]

Seems like every day over the past week I have seen a half dozen articles in the press about "what is a Seventh-day Adventist" or "what is Ben Carson's religion?".

Something like that.
Pretty interesting times.

I think it was in the 1970's when the SDA church was at about 4 million and the Southern Baptists were about 14.x Million.

Now - in January of this year Christianity Today points out that SDAs are around 18.5 Million and the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world. -
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...ts-can-ben-carson-church-stay-separatist.html

Prior to the mid 1960's there was a great deal of confusion in evangelical circles about the Seventh-day Adventist church. Walter Martin (founder of the Christian Research Institute) wrote a book on the subject of what is and is not a cult and determined that Seventh-day Adventist beliefs are orthodox Christianity on the key doctrines that define Christianity. Christianity Today named that the book it its "choice books" list for 1965 saying it was "about the best there is on the cults written with an eye to Christian missions" - according to the cover page to Martin's book.

But that media interest in the SDA church in January 2015 was not even a drop in the bucket compared to what we are seeing today.
Now - in January of this year Christianity Today points out that SDAs are around 18.5 Million and the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world. -


But that media interest in the SDA church in January 2015 was not even a drop in the bucket compared to what we are seeing today.

So when the media asks - "What is Seventh-day Adventist" - there is of course a denominational statement on 28 Fundamental Beliefs -

https://www.adventist.org/fileadmin...rticles/official-statements/28Beliefs-Web.pdf


But by way of a short summary -

As for “What is a Seventh-day Adventist” start with “Seventh-day Baptist” (SDB) as the baseline and then describe the differences from there.


Like SDB (Seventh-day Baptists) -- Adventists believe
Christ was risen on the first day of the week - Sunday
The Bible Sabbath is the 7th day - Saturday and is part of the still binding moral law of God that includes the Ten Commandments - to be obeyed by all mankind.
The Triune Godhead – God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit,
66 books of the Bible
saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-10),
literal creation week (Ex 20:11, Gen 2:1-3),
literal resurrection of Christ (after the cross) and of the saints (in the future),
literal 2nd coming that is future.
Sabbath remains on Saturday

 

[BobRyan]

Like Protestants Adventists believe
· Sola Scriptura testing of all doctrine and tradition,
· Historicist model of prophetic interpretation
· Ten Commandments included in the Moral Law of God binding on all mankind as stated in Eph 6:2, 1Cor 7:10, Mark 7:6-13, “Baptist Confession of Faith” sectn 19, and “Westminster Confession of Faith Sectn 19” – and Dies Domini

· Commandments of God are not editable Mark 7:6-13

Like Calvinists Adventists believe
Sinful nature – depravity of man Romans 3:9-18
Only the supernatural drawing of God can overcome it. John 6:44
God fully knows the future

Like Arminians Adventist believe
Free will – obtained via supernatural drawing of all mankind by God John 12:32
A person can lose salvation (Romans 11:17-23, Matt 18:32-33)
Christ died for the sins of all mankind (1 John 2:2)

Like New Testament saints Adventist believe
Spiritual gifts – 1Cor 12:27-31
Prophetic messages – 2Peter 1:19-21 1Thess 5:19-22, 1 Cor 14:1

 

[BobRyan]

Distinctives in Seventh-day Adventist Doctrine
Emphasis on pre-advent judgment Daniel 7:9-10, Daniel 7:13-14, 2Cor 5:10
Consistent Prophetic day-year for Daniel 9, Daniel 8, Daniel 7
Contiguous timeline for any/all given Bible prophetic timelines including Dan 9.
Ellen White is an example of one person in modern times who had the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy 1Cor14:1
Health message – including dietary laws of Acts 15 and Lev 11
Commandments of God are not editable Mark 7:6-13
Christ is our High Priest in Heaven Heb 8:1-6
And the earthly two phase ministry in OT is reflective of the Heavenly Sanctuary service with the most Holy Place phase in heaven having started in 1844.

No Halloween Ghosts, or praying to the dead
So then taking Matt 10:28 as it reads,
Taking 1Thess 4;13-18 as it reads
Taking John 11:7-14 as it reads
Ezek 18:4 – as it reads

End Time Events
Post-Trib Rapture in Matt 24:29-31 "Immediately AFTER the trib... He will gather His elect"
Pre-Millennial 2nd coming in Rev 19:1 – Rev 20:5
Close of Probation before 7 last plagues – Rev 15:8, Rev 22:10-11
United States becomes World Superpower and has Christ like “Lamb Like” government/principles – Rev 13

All the world becomes more chaotic and sinful over time - and religious-freedom will be revoked in all nations before the end of time. Rev 13.

 

[Dave-W]

Like Calvinists Adventists believe
Sinful nature – depravity of man Romans 3:9-18
Only the supernatural drawing of God can overcome it. John 6:44
God fully knows the future

That is a main line Arminian belief as well. The SDA, like her Methodist Holiness predecessors, are firmly Arminianists.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes we are Arminian - but at times you find people that are Arminian claiming that God does not know the future - and you never find that among Calvinists - SDAs are pretty firm on that point - God does know the future absolutely.

Where classic Calvinists fail is on not understanding the Atonement.

Where classic Arminians lose to Calvinists - is on agreeing with the Calvinists that atonement is limited to "Atoning Sacrifice" at the cross and not the full definition of atonement in Lev 16

 

[Dave-W]

Where classic Calvinists fail is on not understanding the Atonement.

Among a great many other things. I refute all 5 of their basic points.

Where classic Arminians lose to Calvinists - is on agreeing with the Calvinists that atonement is limited to "Atoning Sacrifice" at the cross and not the full definition of atonement in Lev 16

That is NOT what calvinists mean by "Limited Atonement." They mean that the death of Messiah ONLY covers the "elect," those chosen for salvation before the foundation of the world. If you were not predestined to salvation, HIS death means nothing to you.

 

[BobRyan]

Where classic Arminians lose to Calvinists - is on agreeing with the Calvinists that atonement is limited to "Atoning Sacrifice" at the cross and not the full definition of atonement in Lev 16

That is NOT what calvinists mean by "Limited Atonement." They mean that the death of Messiah ONLY covers the "elect," those chosen for salvation before the foundation of the world. If you were not predestined to salvation, HIS death means nothing to you.

That is true - that is what they mean by "limited atonement" - which of course is error, and All Arminians also see this point and so differ with the Calvinists.

But there is the other problem with atonement - one where many Arminians make the mistake of joining the Calvinists - and that is the problem I pointed out - the one where they confine all aspects of the atonement to 2000 years ago as the 'Atoning Sacrifice' that was completed at the cross - and that deletes the full scope of Atonement that God describes in Lev 16 where BOTH the work of Christ as the "sin offering" (the Lamb of God - the Atoning Sacrifice) -- AND the work of Christ as the Heb 8:1 High Priest is being presented for the full meaning and scope of "Atonement".

Christ as our High Priest in heaven is applying the blood of the Atonement to the saints right now in heaven. And each person is benefited that work of Atonement in heaven for us - as they choose to accept Christ and claim forgiveness of sins.

As a result the door of mercy is open to "whosoever will" and though the lost person is not now forgiven - he will be should he choose to repent, accept the Gospel, be born again, claim forgiveness of sins etc.

The "limited Atonement" idea is only true - in that some people do not accept the gospel and thus the complete atonement process could never be applied for them - only the once for all Atoning Sacrifice completed 2000 years ago that makes the Gospel available to them, the Gospel that they reject.

 

[BobRyan]

That is a main line Arminian belief as well. The SDA, like her Methodist Holiness predecessors, are firmly Arminianists.

We are Arminian - but as pointed out some beliefs in the Arminian group are compatible with 3 point Calvinists such as the depravity of man -- and the free will to accept or reject the Gospel.

 

[BobRyan]

Where classic Arminians lose to Calvinists - is on agreeing with the Calvinists that atonement is limited to "Atoning Sacrifice" at the cross and not the full definition of atonement in Lev 16

That is NOT what calvinists mean by "Limited Atonement." They mean that the death of Messiah ONLY covers the "elect," those chosen for salvation before the foundation of the world. If you were not predestined to salvation, HIS death means nothing to you.

While that is true - the "reason" that they argue that point is that they claim that if atonement were full and complete for you - you could not be lost you would have to be saved. And since in their minds there is no aspect of atonement that is future - then it has already been fully decided in the past.

As Calvinists note - Full atonement for all mankind would mean that all mankind is saved. And of course neither Arminians nor Calvinists teach that all mankind is saved. So then if God has fully worked out all the atonement details in the past - then in the past he also predetermined who is saved and who is lost - and also completed the transaction in full - for all who are saved... and did not complete that "full atonement" for anyone determined to be lost. That leads logically to the idea of limited-atonement at the cross. It is the end-result of thinking that the full Lev 16 scope is ended.

 

[Dave-W]

We are Arminian - but as pointed out some beliefs in the Arminian group are compatible with 3 point Calvinists such as the depravity of man -- and the free will to accept or reject the Gospel.

Actually, the Calvinist depravity is miles beyond the Arminian concept of depravity.

Calvinists deny that humans have any kind of "free will to accept or reject the gospel." In Calvinism, if you are predestined to salvation you have no free will to reject the gospel; and if you are predestined for destruction you have no free will to accept it.

 

[Dave-W]

I would be interested in your take on SDA theology vs Messianic theology.

Another thread perhaps?

 

[BobRyan]

Actually, the Calvinist depravity is miles beyond the Arminian concept of depravity.

Calvinists deny that humans have any kind of "free will to accept or reject the gospel." In Calvinism, if you are predestined to salvation you have no free will to reject the gospel; and if you are predestined for destruction you have no free will to accept it.

Perhaps in the 4 and 5 point Calvinist models - but I find the 3 Pointers a lot more like Arminians.

 

[BobRyan]

I would be interested in your take on SDA theology vs Messianic theology.

Another thread perhaps?

There is no doctrinal support in the SDA denomination for keeping feast days - but we do consider them "instructive" nonetheless. I have attended more than one Messianic Passover service. But there is no obligation in that regard.

 

[Dave-W]

I have attended more than one Messianic Passover service. But there is no obligation in that regard.

Did any of them use MY Haggadah?

 

[BobRyan]

Don't know whose it was ... but they did all use a specific order of service.

 

[Dave-W]

Don't know whose it was ... but they did all use a specific order of service.

Right. That order of service has been in place since the first century BC. All of the various haggadot are just variations of the same service.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

I made a thread about Seventh Day Baptists, but it got no responses, so I will ask here.

What do thr SDB believe about soteriology (Calvinism and Arminianism?)

Do they hold to one or the other, or is there a spectrum between the two within the demomination? I hold to eternal security but otherwise accepting of Arminianism.

How do they and Adventists explain Romans 14 where each day is acceptable to the Lord?

 

[BobRyan]

Greetings and welcome!

Romans 14 says that "one man observes one day above another while another observes every day... he who observes the day observes it to the Lord". It is speaking about the Bible approved list of holy days listed in Lev 23.

By contrast in Gal 4 the "observance" of even one of the pagan days is condemned

 

[BobRyan]

Welcome - SpockTheVulcan!

I made a thread about Seventh Day Baptists, but it got no responses, so I will ask here.

What do thr SDB believe about soteriology (Calvinism and Arminianism?)

Do they hold to one or the other, or is there a spectrum between the two within the demomination? I hold to eternal security but otherwise accepting of Arminianism.

How do they and Adventists explain Romans 14 where each day is acceptable to the Lord?

SDAs are Arminian -

And the Matt 18 statement "I forgave you ALL that debt" is taken as literally true -- which is then followed by "forgiveness revoked" in Matt 18 just as you see it in Romans 11.

There is a thread here Nov 4, 2015 #1 -- that talks about SDAs and SDB

 

[BobRyan]

you can see a great example of the similarities in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 as edited by C.H. Spurgeon.