Setting it Straight

[moicherie]

I'm wondering how long those amends should go on though in your eyes? Do you have a number in mind?

lets see the first recorded were around 1619? so take 1619 from say the 1960's/70's when desegregation came about thats over 340 years worth of being treated like human waste......thats a lot of reparations

 

[mva1985]

In "Up From Slavery," former slave Booker T. Washington wrote,


"I have long since ceased to cherish any spirit of bitterness against the Southern white people on account of the enslavement of my race. No one section of our country was wholly responsible for its introduction... Having once got its tentacles fastened on to the economic and social life of the Republic, it was no easy matter for the country to relieve itself of the institution. Then, when we rid ourselves of prejudice, or racial feeling, and look facts in the face, we must acknowledge that, notwithstanding the cruelty and moral wrong of slavery, the ten million Negroes inhabiting this country, who themselves or whose ancestors went through the school of American slavery, are in a stronger and more hopeful condition, materially, intellectually, morally, and religiously, than is true of an equal number of black people in any other portion of the globe. ...This I say, not to justify slavery -- on the other hand, I condemn it as an institution, as we all know that in America it was established for selfish and financial reasons, and not from a missionary motive -- but to call attention to a fact, and to show how Providence so often uses men and institutions to accomplish a purpose. When persons ask me in these days how, in the midst of what sometimes seem hopelessly discouraging conditions, I can have such faith in the future of my race in this country, I remind them of the wilderness through which and out of which, a good Providence has already led us."

 

[sentipente]

Why did you post that, MVA?

 

[mva1985]

Why did you post that, MVA?

Look at the previous couple of posts and I think you'll understand.

 

[sentipente]

Look at the previous couple of posts and I think you'll understand.

What you posted does not directly address what was discussed in the posts above. Say what you want to say. No need to hide behind an old quotation.

 

[mva1985]

What you posted does not directly address what was discussed in the posts above. Say what you want to say. No need to hide behind an old quotation.

I don't really appreciate you talking down to me.

I posted a great quote by a great man - who can write better then I can.

Personally, I think talking about reparations in this forum is a bad idea. Feelings will get hurt, and it is not always easy to get your exact meaning across about the issue without possibly being considered a racist. So I think that it is a subject best left alone.

 

[sentipente]

Personally, I think talking about reparations in this forum is a bad idea. Feelings will get hurt, and it is not always easy to get your exact meaning across about the issue without possibly being considered a racist. So I think that it is a subject best left alone.

You've got to be joking. It might be because individuals have emotions rather than sound arguments.

 

[mva1985]

You've got to be joking. It might be because individuals have emotions rather than sound arguments.

No I'm not joking.

It is an emotional issue, and even if someone had a sound argument doesn't mean that someone won't have their feelings hurt.

 

[sentipente]

No I'm not joking.

It is an emotional issue, and even if someone had a sound argument doesn't mean that someone won't have their feelings hurt.

If that's the case, maybe some people need to grow up.

 

[honorthesabbath]

lets see the first recorded were around 1619? so take 1619 from say the 1960's/70's when desegregation came about thats over 340 years worth of being treated like human waste......thats a lot of reparations

So, in what form might these amends manifest themselves. Who pays, who receives? And if God Himself does not make the children pay for the sins of the fathers, why should anyone?

I never owned a slave, neither did any of my fathers. As a matter of fact, I recall my great-grandparents reviling the practice. So, where does that leave my family and millions of other families who never had a thing to do with slavery? Do we pay for something we are not guilty of?

Do you see how sticky this is? And why live in a past that none of us today had any say in? The problems of today are big enough.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Why did you post that, MVA?

Do you object to the post?

 

[honorthesabbath]

migrant farm workers are not stealing anything... when is the last time americans harvested fruits or vegetables? That is why migrant farmers are used, because Americans WON'T do the work....

Stormy-don't buy into that lie. I live in the heart of chicken factory country. At the time those plants opened, it was only local farm ppl that hired in. I am referring to Tyson's chicken. As the years rolled on, and Tyson became the world's #1 chicken producer, the people in those plants fought for better working conditions, wages and benefits. Tyson didn't want to let them share in the immense wealth that their own hands brought that company.

Do you know what Tyson did? They sent hundreds of 'reps' to Mexico and brought back thousands of Mexican workers to replace the local people who worked there for many years. Not only did people lose their jobs, but the Mexicans were hired in being paid lower wages then those they replaced. Every body got hurt but Tyson.

The same goes for harvesting too. There isn't a job that an American worker won't do--IF-they are paid a fair wages.

1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

 

[JonMiller]

Migrant workers work for cheaper than Americans would. The businesses that run american politics and form the wealthy want the migrant workers here to be cheap labor. Just like they want the Indians/Asian tech workers, and immegrants in general. Most immegrants will work for cheaper than americans will work. Until americans start working as cheaply as immegrants will work for, there will continue to be immegrantion. If you forced immegration to end by locking down all borders, you would end up with a tanked economy as businesses would make poorer profits/go out of business/not hire as many people/etc.

Anti-immegration people just don't realise how a free market capitalist system works.

JM

 

[sentipente]

Do you object to the post?

I am simply engaging him in intelligent discourse.

 

[sentipente]

Tyson didn't want to let them share in the immense wealth that their own hands brought that company.

Is that your argument? Are you aware of the great wealth that slave labor brought to this economy? Oh, I forgot. That is the past as far as you are concerned.

 

[mva1985]

Is that your argument? Are you aware of the great wealth that slave labor brought to this economy? Oh, I forgot. That is the past as far as you are concerned.

And with that comment I would point you back to post #42.

 

[sentipente]

MVA, I would suggest you consider the perennial tension between individual and group interests. What you are doing here with that passage is at the level of proof-texting.

 

[mva1985]

MVA, I would suggest you consider the perennial tension between individual and group interests. What you are doing here with that passage is at the level of proof-texting.

Seems to me that Booker T. Washington was an individual who was a part of the group in question. Certainly he would have more of a right to speak of something that you have not experienced.

 

[sentipente]

Seems to me that Booker T. Washington was an individual who was a part of the group in question. Certainly he would have more of a right to speak of something that you have not experienced.

Where did I question Booker T's right to speak or the value of what he said?

 

[mva1985]