Seriously... Is there anybody at all to date in the Orthodox Church?

Hermit76

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It's all relative. If a person desires a certain status let them pursue it. You'll be miserable and they'll never be satisfied. Six figures isn't a lot of money. If that's the scale the same holds true. Get someone who values you as-is. If it takes longer to find so be it. You'll save yourself a heap of headaches in the long run. :)

Yours in His Service,

~Bella
Six figures is a lot of money.
 
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bèlla

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Six figures is a lot of money.

That's immaterial. The point is forging an alliance with a suitor who values you. Appealing to people who feel differently only leads to hardship. They'll never respect you.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella
 
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bèlla

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Now any potential prospect can only be 2 to 3 years older than her max, but preferably younger!. Of course the men she's looking for all can attain brides much younger than her but this doesn't seem to click with her. This mentality is being played out all over.

If she brings a lot to the table and addresses his core values in her disposition it can tip the scales in her favor. You keep meeting someone's needs it's hard to resist after a while. Men crave honor and respect. The woman who understands his nature and exhibits the character he finds appealing is hard to resist. No matter the number. In today's market, she's a unicorn.

Men hear a different trope. Encountering someone who affirms his masculinity and shares his faith is a rare find. I'm in my forties and date men in their early thirties and turned down a proposal recently. He wasn't the first and won't be the last.

Scarcity mindsets are counterproductive. Everyone has value and worth. Sometimes we forget it. :)

Yours in His Service,

~Bella
 
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buzuxi02

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If she brings a lot to the table and addresses his core values in her disposition it can tip the scales in her favor. You keep meeting someone's needs it's hard to resist after a while. Men crave honor and respect. The woman who understands his nature and exhibits the character he finds appealing is hard to resist. No matter the number. In today's market, she's a unicorn.

Nah in her world it's more about addressing her needs and wants hence why she is still single, and now contemplates adopting and raising a child as a single mom.
But not to drift too far from the OP, it's best to keep all his options open, than to pigeon hole himself to a certain ideal which he himself is coming to the realization may not exist.
Even the idea of marrying another trinitarian christian as a second best case scenario is limiting, we no longer live in a homogeneous society to expect a likely kinship and cultural understanding by staying within the tribal reservation.
 
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Xenophon

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If she brings a lot to the table and addresses his core values in her disposition it can tip the scales in her favor. You keep meeting someone's needs it's hard to resist after a while. Men crave honor and respect. The woman who understands his nature and exhibits the character he finds appealing is hard to resist. No matter the number. In today's market, she's a unicorn.

Men hear a different trope. Encountering someone who affirms his masculinity and shares his faith is a rare find. I'm in my forties and date men in their early thirties and turned down a proposal recently. He wasn't the first and won't be the last.

Scarcity mindsets are counterproductive. Everyone has value and worth. Sometimes we forget it. :)

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

The problem is there will be a last and what kind of life is left by then.
 
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bèlla

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Nah in her world it's more about addressing her needs and wants hence why she is still single, and now contemplates adopting and raising a child as a single mom.

That isn't the spirit I'm referencing. Marriage is a sacred bond. Meeting the other's needs is important.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella
 
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bèlla

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The problem is there will be a last and what kind of life is left by then.

You can relate with the opposite sex without crossing the line or treating them like a spouse. Discerning God's will takes time and honesty. Sometimes we're wedded to our desires and unwilling to embrace the alternative He presents. That's easier said than done.

But I want the Lord's choice and I listen to my spirit. It knows better than my mind or heart. Having a companion who adores Him is foremost. When you're aligned on a spiritual plane you can weather anything. That's what I'm looking for. Someone who'll take me deeper and support my purpose and allow me to do the same. Sharing a holy mission is fulfilling.

If memory serves, you mentioned real estate. Someone in a related industry may be ideal. Like interior design or a DIY fan. :)

Yours in His Service,

~Bella
 
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Xenophon

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You can relate with the opposite sex without crossing the line or treating them like a spouse. Discerning God's will takes time and honesty. Sometimes we're wedded to our desires and unwilling to embrace the alternative He presents. That's easier said than done.

But I want the Lord's choice and I listen to my spirit. It knows better than my mind or heart. Having a companion who adores Him is foremost. When you're aligned on a spiritual plane you can weather anything. That's what I'm looking for. Someone who'll take me deeper and support my purpose and allow me to do the same. Sharing a holy mission is fulfilling.

If memory serves, you mentioned real estate. Someone in a related industry may be ideal. Like interior design or a DIY fan. :)

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

It's not at all about 'not crossing the line.' Women have biological clocks and men have psychological clocks. In the first instance, as time passes the potential for children and the fulfillment of the relationship decreases. In the second case, men become often become feral and the instincts that naturally allow for a man to assume role as the head of a family become disengaged by non-use. In either case a primary reason for marriage, the fruit of the marriage, is thwarted.

The longer any person desists from either commitments of marriage or monastic celibacy, the more that person is removed from the possibility and the capacity for both.

If lines are crossed, as they usually are in one way or another, the effect is worsened. And in this era line crossing is nearly universal, even if you aren't line crossing you can safely assume that anyone else you try to make a life with has done so.

Not to mention the media has left my entire generation cracked.
 
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bèlla

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It's not at all about 'not crossing the line.' Women have biological clocks and men have psychological clocks. In the first instance, as time passes the potential for children and the fulfillment of the relationship decreases. In the second case, men become often become feral and the instincts that naturally allow for a man to assume role as the head of a family become disengaged by non-use. In either case a primary reason for marriage, the fruit of the marriage, is thwarted.

Xenophon,

The primary reason for marriage isn't childbearing or curtailing physical urges. It's a coalescence of two transmuted to oneness. The union is sacrosanct and a visible testament to God. In the bounds of togetherness we experience the delights of intimacy and fruitfulness. But the fetters remain. We aren't freed from the realities of servitude. Its expressed in a different guise.

I enter the union like this and remain in place. I don't lessen my kneel because of him. We become the living sacrifice He demands. When you've forsaken your will for Another you don't get up. You can't take it back. You're in His hands.

Prostration.jpg


The how, when, where, why, and what are His domain. My lone requirement is submission and obedience. I'm expected to follow Him. He knows the desires of our hearts and how to bring them to fruition. He put them there. :)

Yours in His Service,

~Bella
 
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ArmyMatt

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Xenophon,

The primary reason for marriage isn't childbearing or curtailing physical urges. It's a coalescence of two transmuted to oneness. The union is sacrosanct and a visible testament to God. In the bounds of togetherness we experience the delights of intimacy and fruitfulness. But the fetters remain. We aren't freed from the realities of servitude. Its expressed in a different guise.

I enter the union like this and remain in place. I don't lessen my kneel because of him. We become the living sacrifice He demands. When you've forsaken your will for Another you don't get up. You can't take it back. You're in His hands.

View attachment 285790

The how, when, where, why, and what are His domain. My lone requirement is submission and obedience. I'm expected to follow Him. He knows the desires of our hearts and how to bring them to fruition. He put them there. :)

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

actually, the reason for marriage is salvation by both bringing new life and becoming one with the spouse.

to say that childbearing isn't a primary reason is false.
 
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bèlla

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actually, the reason for marriage is salvation by both bringing new life and becoming one with the spouse.

to say that childbearing isn't a primary reason is false.

How does that apply to infertile couples?

Yours in His Service,

~Bella
 
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bèlla

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actually, the reason for marriage is salvation by both bringing new life and becoming one with the spouse.

to say that childbearing isn't a primary reason is false.

Fr. Matt,

If you would like me to remove my post I'm willing to do so. My only desire was to assist Xenophon and encourage him during this season. As I've done in the Singles forum.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella
 
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ArmyMatt

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How does that apply to infertile couples?

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

because if they could fix their infertility, they would. God has been known to make barren couples have kids.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Fr. Matt,

If you would like me to remove my post I'm willing to do so. My only desire was to assist Xenophon and encourage him during this season. As I've done in the Singles forum.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

it's all good, I was just explaining the Orthodox understanding.
 
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rusmeister

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How does that apply to infertile couples?

Yours in His Service,

~Bella
How does that apply to infertile couples?

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

This is not hard to answer.
Generally speaking, the couple enters the marriage with the intention and readiness to bear and raise children. They will only find out about infertility after trying, for a long time. Their intent is irreproachable. That they cannot is not their fault.

Even if they know in advance about infertility, the willingness to have children justifies it. The things impossible with men are possible with God. Abraham and Sarah. So there is no evil in being infertile.

An advance unwillingness to have children IS reproachable. (“I’ve got my life, but I won’t (by my own will) make it possible for others”.

CS Lewis illustrates how this is so in his Space Trilogy. Here’s an excerpt from a discussion on the meaning of deliberately avoiding children:


DISCUSSION

Marriage and Sexuality

“Everything in this chapter, save one page in section 2, is from the viewpoint of the company at St Anne’s, so Jane plays in here quite a bit. We also get Merlin’s view on some things, a decidedly pre-modern view.

While Merlin and Ransom are testing each other there is a series of three questions. The first regards the identity and implications of “Sulva.”

Sulva is she whom mortals call the Moon. She walks in the lowest sphere. The rim of the world that was wasted goes through her. Half of her orb is turned towards us and shares our curse. Her other half looks to Deep Heaven; happy would he be who could cross that frontier and see the fields on her further side. On this side, the womb is barren and the marriages cold. There dwell an accursed people, full of pride and lust. There when a young man takes a maiden in marriage, they do not lie together, but each lies with a cunningly fashioned image of the other, made to move and to be warm by devilish arts, for real flesh will not please them, they are so dainty (delicati) in their dreams of lust. Their real children they fabricate by vile arts in a secret place. (271)
...

"Sir," said Merlin, " know well that she (Jane) has done in Logres a thing of which no less sorrow shall come than came of the stroke that Balinus struck. For, sir, it was the purpose of God that she and her lord should between them have begotten a child by whom the enemies should have been put out of Logres for a thousand years."

"She is but lately married," said Ransom. "The child may yet be born."

"Sir," said Merlin, " be assured that the child will never be born, for the hour of its begetting is passed. Of their own will they are barren: I did not know till now that the usages of Sulva were so common among you. For a hundred generations in two lines the begetting of this child was prepared; and unless God should rip up the work of time, such seed, and such an hour, in such a land, shall never be again."


There’s a lot in this paragraph. I wouldn’t get it all if I tried. So I will just hit an overview and a couple of points. Medieval cosmology is key here. Under the medieval world view, earth is fallen and has “our curse.” They understood the other planets to orbit the earth, the closest being the Moon (which actually does orbit the earth). The Moon lay on the border of the curse. The side facing us was dead, marked by our curse. The opposite side, which faced what we call “space” or what is above called “Deep Heaven” – and at other times in the Ransom cosmology is called the Fields of Arbol. So the Moon is split – half good and half bad. (Filostrato has previously mentioned this dual-natured moon (173) though his understanding is a little bit twisted.)

So Ransom is describing the Moon and the effects of the curse within our “sphere.” The moon’s orbit is the border of our sphere. The second half – beginning “On this side…” – describes people on earth, our fallen or cursed people. We are focused on self, worried about equality and such. We don’t give ourselves to each other – even in marriage. This is THE relationship – when two become one flesh. This should be where love is most manifest and instead is where selfishness is most manifest. The marriage relationship is the place for sexuality to be lived out in its fullest expression – in fruitfulness. But alas. We hate fruitfulness. What God called good and told us to do – be fruitful and multiply – we have decided is bad.

We still want sex, yes, but we want to use it for self-satisfying eroticism instead of for producing the fruit that God intended. Our marriages are cold because we only care about ourselves. Our wombs – our marriages – are barren, fruitless. We embrace a form of the sex that God gave us but not sexuality in all its beautiful fruitfulness. We are “dainty” or delicate in our sex. We don’t want the real thing in all its fruitfulness; we only want to feeling. For some it is the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. For some it is the closeness. Wanting only the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] seems more crass, and may be less noble, than wanting the closeness, the “oneness” that sexuality can produce. But why reject the fruit?

Lewis, at the time of writing THS, was “pre-pill.” Oral birth control wasn’t invented until the early ’50s. He saw the future, the “liberation” of women from the fruitfulness of sex. He saw the hatred of that fruitfulness. Lewis was wading into the edge of this and we are swimming in it. (Now I don’t want to condemn oral birth control pills categorically. They have place – and that is assuming they aren’t abortifacient. I guess that remains to be seen. Its grey enough that I wouldn’t recommend it, but also grey enough that I wouldn’t categorically reject it. And there are a lot of uses for the same medicines to do things beside preventing the birth of children.) The “pill” has come to represent the eroticism of sex without the fruitfulness, which is a very hurtful understanding of it. The pill itself is not evil. If it disappeared tomorrow we would still have the sin.



This passage is calling us back to the fruitfulness of sex, calling us to love the fruitfulness, to see fruitfulness as a gift. The whole world is fruitful. Life is fruitful. Without reproduction of organic life, all life loses its meaning. Look at other visions, other contemplations of this in literature. Consider PD James’s Children of Men where mankind completely ceases to be fruitful. Consider the fallout from the end of the fruitfulness of the plant kingdom in McCarthy’s The Road. All life is fruitful. God made it that way. We ought not turn against it.”
 
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prodromos

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because if they could fix their infertility, they would. God has been known to make barren couples have kids.
Abraham and Sarah, Zacharia and Elizabeth, Joachim and Anna.
 
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