Serious Faith Question

[LoveofTruth]

If a person has true faith, but has not been baptized.
Are they born again?

If your answer is yes, then explain where the "born of water" part fits into the persons faith.

I believe from scripture as well that water baptism was not required at all for salvation. We are saved by grace through faith and not by works of righteousness which we have done.In fact I see water baptism was of the old covenant and Johns water baptism was also part of that which continued among the Jews and flowed over to Gentiles but this was not to be part of the gospel. Paul said Christ sent him not to baptised but to preach the gospel. The gospel he preached is defined in 1 Cor 15:1-5 and no water baptism or any works if the flesh are mentioned as part of the gospel. To o so may be to make another gospel.

The saving baptism (1 Peter 3:21 and Galatians 3) are into Christ, not into water.
The section in John 3 about born of water and of the Spirit speak of two births, as Jesus said

John 3:6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

that which is born of the flesh is the physical birth of a man coming out of the womb in water when the water breaks. This is how the context seems to strongly imply. Nicodemus just asked Jesus can a man go into his mother’s womb a second time and be born. Jesus answered that and showed that two births are Mebtioned, that of the flesh and of the Spirit. Nicodemus might have though he was saved because he was born in Israel and a child of the nation. But that was not what saved.

 

[corinth77777]

The fact that you know to quote Romans 8:1 says a great deal to me. You are correct as well. Continue walking for The Truth while fasting and praying without ceasing as much as Christ will carry you. There is a day when I believe that the world at large will hear The Truth. If you seek, you will find. Christ came to me as a thief in the night. I had always professed Christ but I did not always walk in Christ. When he came to me, He taught me and continues to teach me today after about 30 years since I was rescued from myself. The date will be closer in March. However, there is punishment for sins when you are empowered to resist sin. To whom much is given much is expected. I strongly sense that you are on the path. You might read Malachi 3:1-3. Those Verses are exactly how it works.

I’ll pray for you.

I wrote this so long ago....I dont know what you are referring to......

 

[corinth77777]

I agree, but for many that simplicity is lost - which is why I emphasized the human aspect of being eligible to be born again i.e. any real, 100% human born of a 100% human mother is eligible to be born of the spirit of the Most High God.

Genetics are very important, as well as human authenticity. Many entities behave like humans, but are actually disqualified to be born again because they are not 100% human. I am not talking about the short-sighted notion of race being skin color at all; I am talking about, as an example, the Emim, Zuzim, Anakim, Nephilim, Rephaim, etc.

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[Kaon]

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What's the problem/question?

 

[lsume]

If a person has true faith, but has not been baptized.
Are they born again?

If your answer is yes, then explain where the "born of water" part fits into the persons faith.

The Baptism that counts is The Baptism in The Holy Spirit. A man cannot put water on someone and thus save their eternal soul.

 

[corinth77777]

The Baptism that counts is The Baptism in The Holy Spirit. A man cannot put water on someone and thus save their eternal soul.

What does it count to towards?

 

[98cwitr]

What does it count to towards?

Outward and public expression and statement of faith to a congregation of believers. Water baptism is effectual for nothing. It is a cherished and sacred ordinance of the Christian faith which we publicly repent of our sins. The effectual Baptism is that of the Spirit. "Born of water" may very well speak to what transpires at physical birth.

 

[lsume]

What does it count to towards?

Awakening and understanding plus salvation. Until you go through this you cannot understand It. Please pray on this.

 

[Hawkins]

Jesus Christ sets an example for the Christ------ians to follow. The difference between you and the thief is that the thief doesn't have a chance to obey Christ's command. Plus the Final Judgment of Christians is a subjective judgment by Christ Himself. If He says the the thief has enough faith, the thief is saved. If He says that you don't have the faith because you didn't baptized as He commanded then you are done.

Why take that risk?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If a person has true faith, but has not been baptized.
Are they born again?

If your answer is yes, then explain where the "born of water" part fits into the persons faith.

To be "born of water" is in reference to being born again by God's Word (the Bible). Most do not have an experience with God's Word and make it their final Word of authority for their lives, and they make other church traditions, and or outside books, or visions, etc. as their authority, too. Some do not have a final Word of authority and they interpret God's Word based on what scholars say (Instead of comparing Scripture with Scripture). They do not simply read and believe the Bible. They may even regard the Bible as a holey book (with errors or holes in it), and not as a HOLY BIBLE that is divine in origin. 1 Peter 1:23-25, and 1 Peter 2:1-3 refers to the communicated Word of God. Peter says that we are born again by the incorruptible seed (the Word of God, i.e. Scripture). This is the word of the Lord that endures forever. We see a reference to the Scriptures being like water in Ephesians 5:25-27. It says that the reason Christ died for us was for the purpose so as to sanctify and cleanse us with the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that Christ may present to Himself a church that is holy and without blemish.

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

 

[Guojing]

If a person has true faith, but has not been baptized.
Are they born again?

If your answer is yes, then explain where the "born of water" part fits into the persons faith.

The Jews needed to be water baptized in the 4 Gospels and early Acts because the Kingdom was "at hand".

Once the Jewish nation accept their Messiah, they will all be priests spreading the good news to all the Gentile nations. (Zechariah 8:20-23)

Thus water baptism was the step involved to enter that priesthood.

 

[BobRyan]

If a person has true faith, but has not been baptized.
Are they born again?

If your answer is yes, then explain where the "born of water" part fits into the persons faith.

"born of water" means physical birth. born of the spirit means the new birth.
Believer's baptism means that someone must hear, repent, confess, and then be baptized as someone who is already born again.

Thus 1 Peter 3 says it is not at all the "water touching the flesh" that does it - but rather "the appeal to God for a clean conscience"

 

[corinth77777]

Awakening and understanding plus salvation. Until you go through this you cannot understand It. Please pray on this.

I wrote this long ago I suppose....what does what count for...Water Baptism is that what I was asking....
and you say water Baptism is awakening and understanding plus salvation.

 

[corinth77777]

Awakening and understanding plus salvation. Until you go through this you cannot understand It. Please pray on this.

ok I found it, I was asking about holyspirit Baptism in which someone was saying that's what counts.....

I believe that Salvation is an everyday life counting on God.
and what we are doing with Him. So we must remain in him.
So Baptism that John says ...would happen is with the holy spirit and fire......
so maybe....the holy spirit is now in the present age
and Fire is at the end.....of the ages Judgement day.
Yet what does water baptism count for and where does the Bible say we should participate in it today?
As for the Holy spirit Baptism....if there is a Baptism that save us to day it must be according to scripture. And the only scripture I know is in reference to first Peter 3...around verse 19 and forward.... That the Baptism that save us now ...Is found in the resurrection of Jesus Christ......
I take it, as if scripture said, if we walk in the spirit we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Cleanses us from all unrighteousness.......

Christ is like the water, in that when we walk in His life we will rise up to abundant life...through Him that gives life...Therefore we must labor to enter His rest, as said in Hebrew....
and work for the meat that will never perish as said In Luke....
for those who do the will of God are sons of God! Don't quote me on that last one....

 

[BobRyan]

If a person has true faith, but has not been baptized.
Are they born again?

If your answer is yes, then explain where the "born of water" part fits into the persons faith.

Born of water -- which is your natural birth
Born of the Spirit - which is the new birth that happens when you are converted.

John 3.

1 Peter 3 "according that baptism now saves you NOT the touching of the flesh to the waters of baptism BUT rather the APPEAL to God for a clean conscience"

 

[lsume]

ok I found it, I was asking about holyspirit Baptism in which someone was saying that's what counts.....

I believe that Salvation is an everyday life counting on God.
and what we are doing with Him. So we must remain in him.
So Baptism that John says ...would happen is with the holy spirit and fire......
so maybe....the holy spirit is now in the present age
and Fire is at the end.....of the ages Judgement day.
Yet what does water baptism count for and where does the Bible say we should participate in it today?
As for the Holy spirit Baptism....if there is a Baptism that save us to day it must be according to scripture. And the only scripture I know is in reference to first Peter 3...around verse 19 and forward.... That the Baptism that save us now ...Is found in the resurrection of Jesus
Christ......

I take it, as if scripture said, if we walk in the spirit we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Cleanses us from all unrighteousness.......

Christ is like the water, in that when we walk in His life we will rise up to abundant life...through Him that gives life...Therefore we must labor to enter His rest, as said in Hebrew....
and work for the meat that will never perish as said In Luke....
for those who do the will of God are sons of God! Don't quote me on that last one....

You sound like you are truly seeking The Truth. If you seek you will find. I’m not the judge and I thank God The Father for that. However, it does seem as though few are Truly seeking. I think that if someone has not experienced The abounding Love of God The Father towards oneself it might be impossible to truly seek. Romans 8:1 is Scripture we can stand on provided that we meet the criteria. We must be walking after The Spirit. Christ came to me as a thief in the night about 30 years ago. I knew what was happening and I felt that I was not ready. I had been living the wrong life. Getting scourged and chastised from God The Father is most unpleasant. However, we should praise God for his Love and Mercy which guide his hand in discipline. I pray your walk be fruitful.

 

[corinth77777]

You sound like you are truly seeking The Truth. If you seek you will find. I’m not the judge and I thank God The Father for that. However, it does seem as though few are Truly seeking. I think that if someone has not experienced The abounding Love of God The Father towards oneself it might be impossible to truly seek. Romans 8:1 is Scripture we can stand on provided that we meet the criteria. We must be walking after The Spirit. Christ came to me as a thief in the night about 30 years ago. I knew what was happening and I felt that I was not ready. I had been living the wrong life. Getting scourged and chastised from God The Father is most unpleasant. However, we should praise God for his Love and Mercy which guide his hand in discipline. I pray your walk be fruitful.

All I know is that...I need to trust Him..
and pray that I can always feel His presence....

 

[lsume]

All I know is that...I need to trust Him..
and pray that I can always feel His presence....

Amen! When it was my time to be born again, I was. I still don’t know why I was so Blessed but I am thankful. I had to trust in The Living God The Father knowing that He is Good. Christ prepared me for the rebirth and has carried me for most all of my life.

 

[lsume]

All I know is that...I need to trust Him..
and pray that I can always feel His presence....

Amen!

 

[corinth77777]

Amen! When it was my time to be born again, I was. I still don’t know why I was so Blessed but I am thankful. I had to trust in The Living God The Father knowing that He is Good. Christ prepared me for the rebirth and has carried me for most all of my life.

So do you always feel His presence?