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Featured September 23 'sign in the heavens' debunked.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Steve Petersen, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Yeah, it's takes some real scripture gymnastics to fit a book written in 90AD into an event that happened 20 years earlier. Revelation is not a history book. And I look out my window and I don't see a new heaven and a new earth.
     
  2. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    The massive CME that the Lord will instigate will do exactly what He wants it to do.
    It will virtually wipe the entire Middle East clean. Jeremiah 9:25-26, Jeremiah 10:18, Isaiah 6:11-13, Isaiah 10:23, Zephaniah 1:18, Joel 1:15-20, Hebrews 12:26, 2 Peter 3:7

    But we Christians are promised protection, we must call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, Isaiah 43:2
     
  3. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    I am impressed. A stack of verses of which none remotely suggest a CME event. I think I get the tactic now. Assert a position and then overwhelm the opposition to said position with a batch of scripture quotes in an attempt to overwhelm them and get them to retreat. Classic military move that works in the right situation, but is not foolproof. You do have some interesting hermeneutic principles, that is for sure. Principles that some use to derive just about any doctrine they choose to fit their presuppositions. And then as a counter measure, deride those that oppose those presuppositions with terms that are designed to shut down fruitful dialogue.

    If you were living in America, you could get a good job with a political party.
     
  4. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Here is another list of verses about this forthcoming event. Please give us the benefit of your knowledge and tell us how the Lord will accomplish these prophesies.
    Note that in three quarters of these verses, they state how it is the Lord who instigates this fire judgement.

    Deuteronomy 32:22 For fire is set ablaze by My anger, it burns to the depths of Sheol, it devours the increase of the earth, its flames reach into the mountains.

    2 Samuel 22:9-10 He parted the heavens, with smoke, devouring fire and searing heat.
    Job 18:5 The tents of the evildoer are burned and brimstone destroys them.

    Psalm 11:6 He will rain down burning coals and brimstone upon the godless peoples.
    Psalms 18:7-15 The earth quaked as the Lord came in devouring fire. He covered Himself in darkness.
    Psalms 21:8-9 You burn up Your enemies, like a fiery furnace, You consume them.
    Psalms 29:7 The Lord’s shout strikes with flaming fire.
    Psalms 37:20 Evil people will die, they will be incinerated and go up in smoke.
    Psalms 50:3 Our God is coming, a consuming fire runs ahead of Him and around Him a storm rages
    Psalms 66:12 You allowed men to rule us, we passed through fire, now we live in safety.
    Psalms 83:14-15 As fire rages through a forest, as flames on the hills – terrify them with storms.
    Psalms 97:3-4 Fire goes before Him, all around it burns up His enemies, the whole earth sees and trembles.
    Psalms 140:10 May the Lord throw my enemies into the fire.
    Psalms 144:5-6 Lord, part the heavens and come down, cause volcanoes and flashes of fire.

    Isaiah 1:31 The deeds of the unrighteous will be as a spark, all will burn together with no one to put out the fire.
    Isaiah 4:4 At that time the Sovereign Lord will cleanse Jerusalem with a judgement of fire.
    Isaiah 9:18-19 For evil burned and went up in smoke, the Land was scorched and the people were fuel for the fire.
    Isaiah 10:17 The Light of Israel will become a fire, it will burn and consume His enemies in a day
    Isaiah 13:13 The heavens and the earth will shake on the Day the Lord vents His blazing anger.
    Isaiah 24:1-4 Be warned: the Lord is about to strip the earth and scatter its inhabitants. The earth will dry and wither up.
    Isaiah 26:11 You, O Lord are ready to act, but people don’t see it. Let the fire reserved for Your enemies consume them.
    Isaiah 29:6 Punishment will come from the Lord, with thunder, earthquakes, storms and consuming flames of fire.
    Isaiah 30:26-28 On that Day, the sun will shine seven times brighter. The Lord comes in anger, His tongue a devouring fire, to sieve the nations.
    Isaiah 31:9 They will surrender their stronghold to the Lord, the One whose fire blazes in Zion.
    Isaiah 47:14 Astrologers and divinators will be as stubble as the fire burns them up.
    Isaiah 50:11 Look: all you who start a fire, that is what you will receive from Me.
    Isaiah 62:1 For Zion’s sake, I will not remain quiet. Her deliverance comes, burning like a torch
    Isaiah 66:15-16 The Lord comes in fire, like a whirlwind, bringing retribution in His furious anger. He will judge with fire and many will be slain by Him.

    Jeremiah 4:4 Dedicate yourself to the Lord, if not, My anger will blaze up in flaming fire.
    Jeremiah 5:14 ...those people will be like firewood, that My fiery judgement will burn up.
    Jeremiah 6:29 The fiery bellows of judgement burn fiercely to refine My people.
    Jeremiah 7:20 The Lord says: My raging fury will be poured out, it will burn un extinguished.
    Jeremiah 11:16 You were a beautiful tree, but I will set you on fire, a mighty blaze.
    Jeremiah 15:14...For My anger is like a fire that will flare up against you.
    Jeremiah 17:27 ...if you disobey, I will set Jerusalem on fire, no one will be able to put it out.
    Jeremiah 21:12-14 Dispense justice or the fire of My fury will blaze up and burn unquenched.
    Jeremiah 48:45 Flames will burst out and burn the people of Moab.
    Jeremiah 49:2 The time is coming when Ammon will be burnt to ashes.
    Jeremiah 49:27 I shall set fire to Damascus, it will burn up that city.

    Jeremiah 50:32 Babylon will fall, I will set fire to your towns, it will burn up everything around about.
    Lamentations 2:3 In His fierce anger, He withdraws His protecting hand and He blazes in Judah as a raging fire.

    Ezekiel 15:6-8 ...the residents of Jerusalem will be as fuel for the fire. I will make their Land desolate.
    Ezekiel 19:14 Fire bursts forth in the vine, [Israel] burning up its shoots. It has no strong branch anymore, no scepter for those who bear rule.
    Ezekiel 20:47-48 I will start a fire in the Land, flames that will scorch all the area. All will see that it is I, the Lord who has set it ablaze.
    Ezekiel 21:15 My sword of wrath, ready to kill – flashing like lightning.
    Ezekiel 21:28 A sword is drawn for slaughter against the Ammonites – flashing like lightning.
    Ezekiel 22:20 As metal is smelted in a furnace, so I will deal with you, Israel.
    Ezekiel 30:16 I will set Egypt on fire.

    Hosea 8:14 Israel and Judah have forgotten their Maker – I will send fire upon them.

    Joel 1:19-20 To You, Lord, I cry out, for fire has consumed the pastures and trees of the Land.
    Joel 2:3 It comes in devastating fire, as a leaping flame, leaving behind a desolate waste.
    Joel 2:30-31 On the great and terrible Day of the Lord, the sky and the earth will show blood, fire and smoke.

    Amos 1:4 Therefore, I shall send fire on Damascus [Syria]
    Amos 1:7 Therefore, I shall send fire on Philistia. [Palestine]
    Amos 1:10 Therefore, I shall send fire on Tyre. [Lebanon]
    Amos 1:12 Therefore, I shall send fire on Edom. [the ungodly nations]
    Amos 1:14 Therefore, I shall send fire on Ammon. [Jordan]
    Amos 2:2 Therefore, I shall send fire on Moab. [Southern Jordan]
    Amos 2:5 Therefore, I shall send fire on Judah and Jerusalem. [The State of Israel]

    Micah 1:3 No one can withstand His fierce anger, His wrath is like a volcanic fire.

    Zephaniah 1:18 ..the whole land will be consumed by His fiery wrath, destruction comes to all the earth. He will make a sudden and terrifying end to all who live in the Land.
    Zephaniah 2:2 Prepare yourselves before the Lord’s burning anger comes upon you.

    Zephaniah 3:8 Wait for Me, for the Day that I accuse you and pour out My burning anger, the whole earth will be consumed by the fire of My wrath.

    Haggai 2:21-22 I shall shake the heavens and the earth and break the powers of the heathen.
    Zechariah 13:9 I shall pass the remaining third through the fire and refine them.
    Malachi 3:2-3 Who can endure that Day? He is like refiners fire, testing and purifying.
    Malachi 4:1 The Day comes; burning like a furnace. That Day will burn up all evildoers.
    Matthew 3:12 ...the chaff, He will burn up in an inextinguishable fire.

    2 Peter 3:7 The present heaven and earth are reserved for fire, on the Day of judgement.
    1 Corinthians 3:13 Every persons works will be revealed by fire.....The destruction of the ungodly.

    Hebrews 8:26-27 For if we deliberately persist in sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there remains only the terrifying expectation of a fierce fire that will consume God’s enemies.

    Revelation 14:18 Then the angel who has authority over fire called out; Now is the time to reap the earth. The harvest is ripe to be gathered into the great winepress of God. Reference: REB, NIV, NET. Some verses abridged.
     
  5. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Partial Preterist. I still believe that some has yet to be fulfilled. A tiny part though.

    All Prophecies Fulfilled! | 817-793-9461 | Preterist Bible Commentary
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  6. ken777

    ken777 "to live is Christ, and to die is gain"

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    One of the best video presentations of comparison of other supposed dates when the celestial events of Sep 23 have occurred

     
  7. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    It's amazing how, throughout history, mostly in recent times, people have 'found' dates in scripture that they 'think' mean something is going to happen on said day when in fact nothing happens!

    Look back at the number of said dates have been produced and nothing happens!

    I think that people, like, Keras, for example, are looking at it completely wrongly. They read into scripture what they 'think' will happen. It's all fantasy. It's trying to 2nd guess God.

    If you look at Revelations, right at the beginning it says these things will happen 'SOON'. Not 2,000 years away! Like Jesus said in Matthew, these events would happen in the generation of the Apostles.

    Jesus came and conquered all.
     
  8. ken777

    ken777 "to live is Christ, and to die is gain"

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    The book of Revelation covers the period right up to the final judgement.
     
  9. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    But isn't "soon" kind of relative? I mean, considering that in both OT and NT it is claimed that a day to the Lord is a thousand years and a thousand years is as if a day. After all, it is not like God is on the same time clock as us. Time is a created dimension that fluctuates in passage speed based on object mass, velocity, etc. We are dealing with a creator that is not bound by the same time constraints we are.
     
  10. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

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    I like the guy who did this video. I recognize his voice from another video that I remember liking. This video is good for the people who doubt the time that Jupiter spends in the body of Virgo. And it helps to see the other examples that fall short of our September alignment.

    A better and quicker example is the one where the speaker also shows the movement of Jupiter in the womb of Virgo, but he also counts the number of times that the moon zips by signifying the passage of months. I don't agree with everything that the author of this one says, like the sun being darkened for three hours, but only the first four minutes of the video need to be watched to see the evidence of Jupiter remaining in Virgo for the allotted time. Put the view in full screen mode and focus on Jupiter at the 3:30 mark while keeping the moon in peripheral vision.



    This sign is helping to mark out dates. The dates are also made by a cooperation with the tetrads. Jaco Prinsloo was one of the guys mentioned in the first video. On his Facebook group the discussion centered around the date that Jupiter entered into the body of Virgo in 2016 to mark the beginning of the sign. Then a woman came along and asked why we were so worried about the day of conception? Shouldn't we be more concerned about the birth day, and the days that Jupiter exits the body of Virgo?

    This upcoming Monday, September 11, is the first day that Jupiter comes completely out of Virgo after 9 months and 22 days.

    [​IMG]

    Then on the 23'd the moon slides in place "under her feet".

    [​IMG]


    And then on October 18, Jupiter crosses the line that makes up Virgo's leg and has a conjunction with Mercury at the same time.

    [​IMG]

    Then on November 13, Jupiter is outside the constellation of Virgo, down about at her ankle, and has a conjunction with Venus. The two brightest planets in our sky pair up to underscore Jupiter's presence. The Son of Man is revealed.

    [​IMG]

    I have found this day to also mark out the third segment of a 1260 day span that began after the third moon of our tetrad. 420 days, a third watch in the night, until a "darkened" sun in 2019 and a moon that will not give her light.

    "Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes.

    "If he comes in the second watch, or in the third, and finds them awake, blessed are those servants!

    .
     
  11. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    An "Exodus" is leaving a place. If all the Christians of this world rush to Israel... that is not an "exodus". That is the opposite.

    The only "exodus" that will happen in the future will be the 144,000 converted Jewish people who run for protection. Not the entire world of Christians going to Israel.

    Think about it...... There would have to be supernatural intervention for either to take place... the migration of all the Christians of the world into Israel OR the 144,000 Converts to safety in the desert.

    If there was a supernatural intervention on the scale to move close to a billion true Christian believers into Israel... it would confirm the existence of an all powerful God...The deception that had blinders on all others would be taken away with such an event.

    However, shuffling off 144,000 converts, from Israel into the desert...much more conceivable.

    ex·o·dus
    ˈeksədəs/
    noun
    noun: exodus; plural noun: exoduses
    a mass departure of people, especially emigrants.
    synonyms: mass departure, withdrawal, evacuation, leaving;
     
  12. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Where many see the 9/23/2017 date is that it coincides with the closing of Yom Teruah / Feast of Trumpets. And that comes from the allusions to that Feast day in some passages of the NT that are eschatological. Long before the Sept 23rd occurrence was a blip on the radar, I started viewing such things in light of the feast days, since God was such a stickler for adhering to them at Yeshua's first coming and the feasts of Leviticus 23 are called Moedim (appointed times) and Miqra (rehearsals), implying that they are rehearsals for future events. And Yom Teruah is the next feast day on the list.

    Since Yom Teruah is a two day feast day, and only officially starts when the new moon is established by two certified witnesses in Israel, There is substantial leeway in what date could be used in determining any relationship between the feast and this cosmic convergence.
     
  13. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Especially in light of Yeshua telling those when these things happen to pray their flight to safety is not on the Sabbath. Sabbath is hardly a restriction outside of Israel, but can be an impediment inside of the land of Israel. Virtually the entire country, as far as travel and such is concerned, shuts down.
     
  14. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    I understand that there were events that parallel the predictions in the prophecy of the Revelation.

    As in other biblical event and prophecies they can mean events that foreshadow future main events.

    Joseph is foreshadowing Christ. Jonah foreshadowed the death and resurrection of Christ. Events of the early church foreshadow the main events that will happen soon.

    Have the two witnesses ever showed up, preached against sinners, killed those who try to harm them with fire from their mouths.... been killed and let lie in the streets for three days while "all the world" watched in real time and viewed their bodies... gave gifts in celebration of their deaths...

    No, these events have not happened... The Bible seems to always give mini events in a time that precedes the main event, that parallel the main events.. this is what I believe.

    You can build a shaky case for some of "the Revelation" already happening. However, it will happen, in every detail, on full scale, the world over and not one verse will be contradicted.
     
  15. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    I do suspect Harvey, Irma, Jose and this Mexican Earthquake yesterday to be preliminary events to the bigger ones coming. Prior to yesterday, I told my wife California is overdue for a quake and that Cascadian Subduction Zone may be in play as well. The Solar Eclipse drew a shadow over that Cascadian area, Yellowstone and The New Madrid fault in Missouri to South Carolina and I think that was an omen for what is to come.
    Other than Nov. 29, 1947 maybe being significant, why do you think the last 7 weeks of the year will be?
     
  16. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    Yeah, next comes the wall of words. Building ramparts against opposition.
     
  17. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    Anyone watching world events can see that the time is short......... no matter what view you hold, we are in for some epic world events on a calendar of biblical proportions.
     
  18. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Final judgment will be when we die.
     
  19. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Jesus told His Apostles that it was their generation that see the horrors that were to come. He was indeed correct. I think that Revelation has almost been accomplished.
     
  20. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Thing is, you are reading it 'Literally'. There is more meaning to it. One has to delve deep into it. Lots of people take things in scripture too literally.
     
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