separation agreement for UMC

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,250
10,567
New Jersey
✟1,148,308.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
A group containing representatives from a variety of perspectives has just announced a plan for separation of the UMC. See Council of Bishops: United Methodist Traditionalists, Centrists, Progressives & Bishops sign agreement aimed at separation, and the FAQ: Council of Bishops: Frequently Asked Questions about the United Methodist Mediation Team. The plan can't by the nature of things be official, but the council of bishops announced it, and it has enough support to be taken seriously.

The assumption is that the traditionalists will withdraw. $25M is reserved to help form a traditionalist church, $39M to help groups impacted (my impression is that this is primarily Africa), and $2M in case another denomination is created.

There is a moratorium on handling complaints over LGBT issues starting immediately and lasting until after the first general conference of the post-split church. Under the Discipline there's no way to stop people from making complaints, but the bishops are agreeing to suspend dealing with them.

Annual conferences, central conferences, and individual churches (by a 57% vote) can affiliate with the new denomination. Pensions continue. Buildings and other resources move when the conference or church moves. Annual conferences agree not to enforce the trust clause in that case.

The announcement notes "The Protocol also refers to a plan that calls for a special general conference of the post-separation United Methodist Church. The purpose of the Special Session would be to create regional conferences, remove the current prohibitions against LGBTQ persons, and to repeal the Traditional Plan."

There are enough non-US representatives to the GC that it's not clear to me that a post-split Church would actually remove the prohibitions of ordaining gays, unless large parts of the Central Conferences move or agree to allow it. There were representatives of Central Conferences on the team, but my understanding is that the Central Conferences had previously strongly opposed splitting the Church. If that hasn't changed, the results may not be what the team expects.

It's also not clear whether the remaining post-split UMC will be able to survive financially.
 
Last edited:

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,298
Tuscany
✟231,507.00
Country
Italy
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Have I understood properly that it's the Traditionalists that will have to leave?
This would be interesting because the same is happening in the Catholic Church.
Seems like some churches want to become modern and keep up with the times.
Of which opinion are you?
 
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,250
10,567
New Jersey
✟1,148,308.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
Have I understood properly that it's the Traditionalists that will have to leave?
This would be interesting because the same is happening in the Catholic Church.
Seems like some churches want to become modern and keep up with the times.
Of which opinion are you?
Yes. I believe that was their choice. I don’t think they want to have to support the whole existing structure.
 
Upvote 0

Rawtheran

Lightmaker For Christ
Jan 3, 2014
531
263
28
Ohio
✟46,459.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I hate to say it but the United Methodist Church has been heading for a disaster for quite a long time. Truly sad to see what was once an amazing denomination that carried the Gospel to the 4 corners of the Earth go up in flames. Ahhh well it wouldn't be the first time in the history of the church that denominations have risen and fallen.
 
Upvote 0

seeking.IAM

Episcopalian
Site Supporter
Feb 29, 2004
4,258
4,928
Indiana
✟937,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
As a former 50 year Methodist this saddens me. I grieve for the Methodist and United Methodist Churches I once knew. I am sorry you could not find a way forward together. May God be with you all.
 
Upvote 0

Rawtheran

Lightmaker For Christ
Jan 3, 2014
531
263
28
Ohio
✟46,459.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
um, no it's not :doh:
I think he was making a reference to comments that the Roman Catholic Church's Antichrist leader made back in September about how he wasn't afraid of a schism in the church because of all the controversies surrounding Catholicism right now.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

concretecamper

Member of His Church
Nov 23, 2013
6,775
2,568
PA
✟274,309.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I think he was making a reference to comments that the Roman Catholic Church's Antichrist leader made back in September about how he wasn't afraid of a schism in the church because of all the controversies surrounding Catholicism right now.
you got all this from what i quoted he said? Amazing
 
Upvote 0

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,298
Tuscany
✟231,507.00
Country
Italy
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
um, no it's not :doh:
@Rawtheran seems to understand what is happening in the Catholic Church more than you do.

Many priests in the US are refusing to follow Pope Francis because of his new teachings.

First of all, when a man becomes Pope, he takes an oath not to CHANGE any previous doctrine...Francis has done this with both communion to the remarried and stating ex-cathedra that it is no longer accepted that persons be executed by the govt. (which I happen to agree with, but that's not the point).

There are some in the CC that refuse to accept the changes going on.
This is your right and I will not argue it with you.

However, you should at least be aware that this is happening.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

concretecamper

Member of His Church
Nov 23, 2013
6,775
2,568
PA
✟274,309.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Many priests in the US are refusing to follow Pope Francis because of his new teachings
I am aware of some who do not like the ambiguity of what is going on. I am not aware of many priests "refusing to follow". If you have any evidence of this schism, I'll look at it.
First of all, when a man becomes Pope, he takes an oath not to CHANGE any previous doctrine...Francis has done this with both communion to the remarried
he didnt change the teaching that those in mortal sin can recieve the Eucharist. Anyway, being remarried isnt wrong.
and stating ex-cathedra that it is no longer accepted that persons be executed by the govt. (which I happen to agree with, but that's not the point
You are reaching stating it was an ex cathedra statement, it wasn't.
There are some in the CC that refuse to accept the changes going on.
This is your right and I will not argue it with you
The issues you raise are real issues that have been reported. However, your understanding of the facts are fuzzy and you are jumping to conclusions that are not there.
 
Upvote 0

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,298
Tuscany
✟231,507.00
Country
Italy
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am aware of some who do not like the ambiguity of what is going on. I am not aware of many priests "refusing to follow". If you have any evidence of this schism, I'll look at it.
he didnt change the teaching that those in mortal sin can recieve the Eucharist. Anyway, being remarried isnt wrong.

You are reaching stating it was an ex cathedra statement, it wasn't.
The issues you raise are real issues that have been reported. However, your understanding of the facts are fuzzy and you are jumping to conclusions that are not there.
OK C...you have your opinion.
The schism is already happening....
When many within a denomination refuse to follow its leader...it is already in schism mode.

You don't seem to understand about communion for the remarried.
And the CC now follows the belief that execution is not allowed...this is a change in doctrine --- was the magesterum involved? NO! It seems to me that he's making the changes he wishes to make with no authority.
 
Upvote 0

polkaman

Newbie
Jul 14, 2013
218
116
✟57,563.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I feel like i got hit in the gut yesterday...
First, an anniuncement out of the
Blue....come to find out this has
Been in the works, and nobody said
Anything....and they set on this for
A couple of weeks....
This is wrong...and things wrong with
The agreement....most of the money
Will be leaving the country, yet we are the
Ones that raised the funds...
And the wca... I head their leader a while
Back go off on the democrats and the
Liberals...
I have put in alot of work to make things
Better...and bang...its its all over.
I am sad and mad at the same time.
And at this stage in my life, its its too
Hard to start all over.
I had so many hopes, so many plans,
And bang...

The devil won
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Rawtheran

Lightmaker For Christ
Jan 3, 2014
531
263
28
Ohio
✟46,459.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I feel like i got hit in the gut yesterday...
First, an anniuncement out of the
Blue....come to find out this has
Been in the works, and nobody said
Anything....and they set on this for
A couple of weeks....
This is wrong...and things wrong with
The agreement....most of the money
Will be leaving the country, yet we are the
Ones that raised the funds...
And the wca... I head their leader a while
Back go off on the democrats and the
Liberals...
I have put in alot of work to make things
Better...and bang...its its all over.
I am sad and mad at the same time.
And at this stage in my life, its its too
Hard to start all over.
I had so many hopes, so many plans,
And bang...

The devil won
It's not over polkaman, this is just a thinning of the herd. God is dealing his righteous judgement on a denomination that has gone rouge and forgotten who he truly is or what his teachings truly embody. In a sense many leaders in the UMC do not believe in God except who they want to make him to be and their finding out at this very moment that it doesn't work out that way. I think you will be fine because many of the UMC local churches will still be able to retain their buildings and will be free to join whatever denomination they want or to break off and become independent.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: NanTN
Upvote 0

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,298
Tuscany
✟231,507.00
Country
Italy
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I feel like i got hit in the gut yesterday...
First, an anniuncement out of the
Blue....come to find out this has
Been in the works, and nobody said
Anything....and they set on this for
A couple of weeks....
This is wrong...and things wrong with
The agreement....most of the money
Will be leaving the country, yet we are the
Ones that raised the funds...
And the wca... I head their leader a while
Back go off on the democrats and the
Liberals...
I have put in alot of work to make things
Better...and bang...its its all over.
I am sad and mad at the same time.
And at this stage in my life, its its too
Hard to start all over.
I had so many hopes, so many plans,
And bang...

The devil won
I feel badly for you...
but the devil did not win.
Those that want the change were never really Christian or followers of Christ anyway.

Seems like churches are getting "cleaned"...maybe it's not bad but good.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: NanTN
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,250
10,567
New Jersey
✟1,148,308.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
I just read the formal version of the plan, https://www.unitedmethodistbishops....d+umc+mediation+protocoal+statement+-2020.pdf, more carefully.

There seem to be assumptions not stated clearly in the plan. They're going to have to be spelled out in the actual legislative proposals. There are references to a US Regional Conference. While it's not stated clearly, it appears that intrinsic to this plan is creating a Regional Conference for the US equivalent to the Central Conferences.

I had stated that the first post-split GC would have to repeal the anti-LGBT rules. Actually, that's not what the plan says. It says "The Council of Bishops will call the first session of the United States Regional Conference to consider legislation related to changes in the adaptable portions of the Book of Discipline including the repeal of Traditional Plan legislation and all other portions related to LGBTQ persons."

If the US Regional Conference is in fact equivalent to Central Conferences, it would have the right to produce a localized version of the Discipline. It appears that the plan assumes that prohibition of LGBT ordination would continue to be present in the UMC Discipline, but would be overruled for the US region by its localized Discipline.

While this plan is being presented as a plan to split the UMC, and thus sounds like some previous proposals to do so, I'm not so sure that is accurate. It appears that this is actually a plan to produce a US Regional Conference. That would allow the US to change policies for LGBT without affecting the rest of the Church (e.g. Africa), an approach that would not require splitting the denomination. There was also a plan to do that previously floated.

The only reason for a split is that it's assumed that traditionalists wouldn't want to stay. If they did, they could create a second, traditionalist, US Regional Conference, rather than a separate traditionalist denomination.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,250
10,567
New Jersey
✟1,148,308.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
I know we have a few UMC pastor here who no doubt here what's being talked about in a way I wouldn't. For you: any idea what a US regional conference would do? If they want to keep as much of the church as possible, I could imagine guarantees for conservative churches and annual conferences.
 
Upvote 0