Separating Economic beliefs and Social beliefs.

[RJ Spencer]

Let me start off by saying that I'm an evangelical Bible believing Presbyterian and I completely reject the "social Gospel". I have gotten in trouble with fellow Christians in the past when I have told people that I'm a Leftist/Marxist, they claim that you can't be a socialist to any degree and be a Christian at the same time. I have to get into the details with everyone, because what I mean is that I'm economically a Socialist. Obviously, I completely reject social Marxism as being 100% incompatible with the teachings of Christ. Why is it so hard for people to separate economic beliefs from social beliefs?

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

I think if you cited examples people would have a better handle on what you're referring to. And they'd be able to take it case by case.

I have a friend that thinks it's impossible to be a liberal democrat and Christian at the same time. Personally, I've just stepped into an entirely new realm of philosophy on such things. And I look forward to the conversation.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Let me start off by saying that I'm an evangelical Bible believing Presbyterian and I completely reject the "social Gospel". I have gotten in trouble with fellow Christians in the past when I have told people that I'm a Leftist/Marxist, they claim that you can't be a socialist to any degree and be a Christian at the same time. I have to get into the details with everyone, because what I mean is that I'm economically a Socialist. Obviously, I completely reject social Marxism as being 100% incompatible with the teachings of Christ. Why is it so hard for people to separate economic beliefs from social beliefs?

Hi; I think that as a dispensationalist I would have a somewhat different response to you, in that I would by God's grace tend to hold that the Gospel rather than the law or a political program is the rule of the New Testament believer's life.

 

[redleghunter]

Why is it so hard for people to separate economic beliefs from social beliefs?

Because Marx could not?

 

[faroukfarouk]

PS: I know that many English-speaking Christians in North America seemingly believe by default that what may be perceived as the foreign interests of huge, foreign-policy driving, corporations must supposedly coincide with the supposed mission and interests of Biblical Christians, but I don't, as it happens.

 

[redleghunter]

PS: I know that many English-speaking Christians in North America seemingly believe by default that what may be perceived as the foreign interests of huge, foreign-policy driving, corporations must supposedly coincide with the supposed mission and interests of Biblical Christians, but I don't, as it happens.

 

[timewerx]

Let me start off by saying that I'm an evangelical Bible believing Presbyterian and I completely reject the "social Gospel". I have gotten in trouble with fellow Christians in the past when I have told people that I'm a Leftist/Marxist, they claim that you can't be a socialist to any degree and be a Christian at the same time. I have to get into the details with everyone, because what I mean is that I'm economically a Socialist. Obviously, I completely reject social Marxism as being 100% incompatible with the teachings of Christ. Why is it so hard for people to separate economic beliefs from social beliefs?

Do you know about the "Parable of Workers in the Vineyard"?

Jesus is showing a policy of equal income for everyone. And Jesus calls it "generosity"

 

[Richard T]

It is not hard to separate economic and social beliefs. The political compass test does exactly that. They chart you vertically in regards to whether one is libertarian or authoritarian and horizontally, they chart your ideology as either right or left. The Political Compass (Basically, this quick online quiz gies you an idea of where your ideology lays on these two axes. There is a big difference though in the bible in economics than man's socialism. The bible method is to share and give voluntarily, whereas man's socialism is forced giving. The latter does not work because when people get wealth they did not earn then many lose any incentive to work. But I guess you know the arguments seeing that you at least take the time to think about such matters. A very good sign by the way.

 

[Need answers]

Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver (2 Corinthians 9:7)

The above scripture does not support socialism.

 

[RJ Spencer]

Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver (2 Corinthians 9:7)

The above scripture does not support socialism.

No one had ever used that verse to support Socialism. In context that verse is about giving to the Church not the government or society. The Bible does not command Capitalism in the same way that it does not command Socialism. Jesus spoke out against the rich on numerous occasions though and the Bible forbids making money unjustly.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Let me start off by saying that I'm an evangelical Bible believing Presbyterian and I completely reject the "social Gospel". I have gotten in trouble with fellow Christians in the past when I have told people that I'm a Leftist/Marxist, they claim that you can't be a socialist to any degree and be a Christian at the same time. I have to get into the details with everyone, because what I mean is that I'm economically a Socialist. Obviously, I completely reject social Marxism as being 100% incompatible with the teachings of Christ. Why is it so hard for people to separate economic beliefs from social beliefs?

I don't have any social beliefs. I have religious beliefs and political beliefs. I have economic preferences based upon both. Economically I am a consumer and a producer, not because of any belief I hold but because I buy and sell things.

 

[grasping the after wind]

PS: I know that many English-speaking Christians in North America seemingly believe by default that what may be perceived as the foreign interests of huge, foreign-policy driving, corporations must supposedly coincide with the supposed mission and interests of Biblical Christians, but I don't, as it happens.

I have yet to meet a person that believes that. I think you simply wish to beat up a strawman.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Do you know about the "Parable of Workers in the Vineyard"?

Jesus is showing a policy of equal income for everyone. And Jesus calls it "generosity"

Yes Jesus calls it generosity not justice or fairness. Probably because Jesus told only the truth.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I have yet to meet a person that believes that. I think you simply wish to beat up a strawman.

Then you are not aware how many North American Christians are perceived by Christians in developing countries. I could give you overwhelming evidence.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Then you are not aware how many North American Christians are perceived by Christians in developing countries. I could give you overwhelming evidence.

I don't need overwhelming evidence that people hold incorrect perceptions of others. I am convinced of that already.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I don't need overwhelming evidence that people hold incorrect perceptions of others. I am convinced of that already.

I cannot accept that many North American Christians in the past have not gone to developing countries, dispensing largesse and patronage, trying to organize local Christians into groups and structures which to some extent reflect North American business thinking, and seeking to retain a permanent role for themselves among supposedly passive local Christians.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I cannot accept that many North American Christians in the past have not gone to developing countries, dispensing largesse and patronage, trying to organize local Christians into groups and structures which to some extent reflect North American business thinking, and seeking to retain a permanent role for themselves among supposedly passive local Christians.

Who asked you to accept it?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Who asked you to accept it?

I think our conversation has run out of steam, so to speak.

 

[RJ Spencer]

I don't have any social beliefs. I have religious beliefs and political beliefs. I have economic preferences based upon both. Economically I am a consumer and a producer, not because of any belief I hold but because I buy and sell things.

Buying and selling things is compatible with both Socialism and Capitalism... There are even free market Socialists (Mutualists).

 

[faroukfarouk]

Buying and selling things is compatible with both Socialism and Capitalism... There are even free market Socialists (Mutualists).

From Pol Pot and Stalin to Swedish Prime Ministers: there have been various vastly different types of regimes that have at one time or another called themselves by some kind of socialist reference.