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Senate GOP repeals ObamaCare mandate

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by NightHawkeye, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. Almost there

    Almost there Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, this is true.
     
  2. Ygrene Imref

    Ygrene Imref Well-Known Member

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    Have you read the 400+ page bill?

    Have you seen anything that sticks out (like a hand written page included)?

    Have your constituents read the tax bill, or did they pass it with intentions to read it later like AHA?

    I hope you have at least seen the 400 page document.
     
  3. Ygrene Imref

    Ygrene Imref Well-Known Member

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    QFT
     
  4. discipler7

    discipler7 Active Member

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    No, it does not.
    ... Job ignorantly sinned against God by making an "insurance" offering to God at JOB.1:5(cf; JOB.3:25 & 42:8), ie to insure or protect his hard-earned prosperity just in case his spoiled sons might sin.

    About 400 years after the story of Job, Moses Law at EXODUS.20:5 revealed that the sons' sins or evil-deeds would not befall on the fathers or forefathers, ie only the other way round. So, Job had made a foolish offering to God. That was why God removed His protection over Job.

    Even though Job did not know what hit him, he kept the faith and repented for demanding for an answer from God for his calamities. So, he was eventually doubly-blessed by God.
    ... In comparison, his wife had likely cursed God and died(JOB.2:8) = died early and lost her chance at salvation.
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    In the New Covenant, Christians who are unrepentant sinners/evildoers/law-breakers will still be cursed by God, eg ACTS.5:(Ananias & Sapphira), 1COR.5:5 & 11:30, 1JOHN.5:16-19, HEBREWS.10:26-31.
    ... Additionally, ignorant Christians who curse/blaspheme God or Jesus and die while suffering for their sins will likely be sent to hell by God/Jesus.
     
  5. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    Ananias and Sapphira were an exceptional case of punishing a particular sin which was harmful to the early Church.

    I don't see any evidence in the real world that good people are necessarily blessed by God with money and wealth. That is a ridiculous notion. It sounds like the magical thinking that certain Pentecostals peddle in.
     
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  6. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    I don't think I'm sad about the rich not getting tax breaks on the backs of the poor and the implosion of the healthcare industry, along with a horrendous violation of the 1st amendment. Hopefully the courts strike that part down, but who knows since Trump is injecting his puppets everywhere he can.
     
  7. discipler7

    discipler7 Active Member

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    MATTHEW.19: =
    Jesus Counsels the RICH Young Ruler
    16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

    17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

    18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

    Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ "

    20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

    21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

    22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
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    ROMANS.2: =
    God’s Righteous Judgment
    2 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds". [PSALM.62:12] 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

    12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  8. discipler7

    discipler7 Active Member

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    Are you saying that God only punishes certain exceptional sins committed by Christians while overlooking all their other less exceptional sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking.?
     
  9. littotes60

    littotes60 Member

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    That's because other countries don't know how to do representative democracy.

    And everyone is jealous of it.
     
  10. discipler7

    discipler7 Active Member

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    The Pentecostals' Prosperity Gospel is a misinterpretation and misuse or abuse of God's Word/Law.

    It's true that God had promised Moses and the Jews that He would bless them with prosperity if they keep God's Law and tithe 10% to the property-less priesthood in the Jewish theocratic nation that was governed by God's prophets, judges or kings.(circa 1500BC) The ancient Jewish nation/kingdom ended at around 800BC.
    ... This situation no longer fully apply today for Christians who are mostly governed by secular governments and where priests/pastors can hold properties or assets.

    As per MATTHEW.22:21, US Christians should pay taxes to their US government(= render to Caesar) and also pay 2-3% tithe to their Church(= render to God), ie no need to pay 10% tithe, on top of paying US Federal taxes = otherwise, a great financial burden. In this way, today's Christian will be blessed by God.

    MATTHEW.25:31-46 also says that by financially supporting God's Church, pastors, evangelists, missionaries, etc, ordinary Christians are serving God "by proxy" and will be blessed by God with the kingdom of heaven.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  11. jayem

    jayem Naturalist

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    As I understand it, the Senate bill did not, strictly speaking, repeal the mandate. That would require regular order, which these days means 60 votes. But the tax penalty was repealed. So if this bill actually becomes law, the mandate language still exists, but there's no enforcement. Which is the functional equivalent of a repeal.

    It's also my understanding that the Senate bill contains a provision to provide additional federal payments to insurers for 2 years. Which will subsidize increased premium costs for ACA plans that may result if healthy people are no longer in the risk pool. It's one of those little-discussed last minute changes that popped up. Largely I suspect to get Susan Collins on board. If this is true, are you OK with it?
     
  12. littotes60

    littotes60 Member

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    You shouldn't have to buy insurance of any sort until you actually need it.
     
  13. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Well, the simple truth is that healthcare insurance has always been too expensive for individuals to afford. That's nothing new. Historically, healthcare "insurance" has simply been a benefit provided by companies for the employees, which employees are inherently mostly healthy what with being in the workforce and all. Since the employees were predominantly healthy companies could afford to pay the cost of healthcare for those few who got sick.

    Forcing individuals to buy insurance was always a bad idea.
     
  14. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member

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    ??? This is one of the silliest positions I've seen in years.

    Obviously, no one who doesn't need it should buy insurance or health care services.

    Insurance is about everyone buying and spreading the costs.

    How different is this than auto insurance?
     
  15. JackRT

    JackRT "Karma" can bite you in the butt

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    Can you predict when illness or accident might incapacitate you and leave you unable to work and buy insurance? You need insurance all the time! Even your senators and congressmen have voted themselves a very nice medical insurance plan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
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  16. jayem

    jayem Naturalist

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    The libertarian in me understands.. But my utilitarian side protests. When people are uninsured, their medical costs are shifted onto those of us who are covered. Partly through inflated fees. (Which increases our insurance premiums.) And partly through retroactive payments--the vast majority of which come from various levels of government. Kaiser reported on uncompensated care in 2013. (The year before ACA was in effect.) Uninsured patients incurred $85 billion of medical costs. Providers were eventually reimbursed $53 billion through federal and state sources. Which all of us taxpayers have to pay for in the end. It's exactly like states' mandating auto liability coverage. It has nothing to do with safe driving. Insurance is required for financial responsibility. If you injure someone in an at-fault accident, you have a financial resource to pay damages you legally owe. (At least at a minimum level.) Mandatory health coverage ensures that you have at least some ability to pay for medical care that you might receive. So your expenses won't be dumped on the rest of us. And if that's not the essence of conservative economic thinking, then what is?

    Uncompensated Care for the Uninsured in 2013: A Detailed Examination
     
  17. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Newbie

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    How is it different than the tax break given to homeowners?
     
  18. littotes60

    littotes60 Member

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    Insurance companies used to have a bunch of perfectly good tools to control their costs (Lifetime Coverage Caps, Pre-existing Conditions) but then Comrade Obama decided that the free market shouldn't be free and that insurance companies shouldn't tell a family that their kids with cancer couldn't get coverage because they exhausted their lifetime coverage. It's SO UNFAIR to the insurance companies.

    The Individual Mandate sounds like an old Soviet trick that George Soros came up with when he was living in Transylvania. It was a chance to force the insurance companies to be under the control of the government AND it is a way to force all Americans to buy something, and enriching people like Soros and Obama and Hillary Clinton.
     
  19. littotes60

    littotes60 Member

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    I don't know...that sounds like MARXISM to me. From each according to his ability to each according to his need.

    I don't think we need THAT kind of Commie stuff here in the USofA
     
  20. JackRT

    JackRT "Karma" can bite you in the butt

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    And what about this new tax bill forcing the very rich to pay less tax?
     
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