Sell all that you have, give to the poor, and follow me

[Nihilist Virus]

Vote!

 

[Radrook]

The advice was offered to a man who was rich and who placed great value on his riches. Although he was obedient to the Mosaic Law, Jesus read his heart and noticed a certain character flaw and used him as an example. It wasn't meant as a command that all Christians should take a vow of poverty.

Matt 19
…20The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?" 21Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 22But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.…

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible


Jesus said unto him, if thou wilt be perfect,.... Wanting nothing, completely righteous, according to the tenor of the covenant of works, having no evil, concupiscence, or worldly lusts: our Lord signifies it was not enough to be possessed of negative holiness, and do no hurt to his neighbour, to his person, property, and estate, but he must love him, and do him good; and therefore, though so far as he had complied with the law, it was right and commendable; wherefore it is said by Mark, "that Jesus beholding him loved him"; had an affectionate regard to him as man, and approved of his intentions, seriousness, and actions, so far as agreeable; yet tells him,

one thing thou lackest: not but that he lacked many more, but he was only willing to observe one thing to him, as a trial of his love to his neighbour, which is the fulfilling of the law:

go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: not that either the law of God, or Gospel of Christ, require this to be done of all men, and at all times; for though it is a duty binding upon all, and always, to relieve the poor and the needy, yet a man is not obliged to give all that he has to them; see 2 Corinthians 8:11 nor does either legal or Christian perfection lie in doing this: a man may give all his goods to the poor and yet be destitute of the grace of God, 1 Corinthians 13:3 much less can such an action merit the heavenly treasure of eternal life. Nevertheless of some persons, and in some cases, it has been required, that they part with all their worldly substance, for the sake of Christ and his Gospel; as the apostles were called to leave all and follow Christ, as this man was also; for it is added
http://biblehub.com/matthew/19-21.htm

 

[ViaCrucis]

Bonhoeffer writes, "When Christ calls a man, he bids him, come and die." The call of discipleship is always a kind of death, as it means following the Crucified. When He called to Peter, Andrew, James, and John they gave up their fisherman's nets. Levi (identified with Matthew) gave up the life of a tax collector.

Here the call to the rich young ruler is the same, but he stands as an opposite example--he cared more for his wealth and could not depart from it in order to join in Jesus' work, and so "went away sad".

In the call to the rich young ruler is not a universal command to voluntary poverty, but the call of discipleship. That call will deliver a death blow to us if we accept it; the death of our pride, the death of our riches, the death of our comfort, there will be death in this call and command. It will demand the death and crucifixion of the old man, and it may cost us our comfort, our livelihood, and even our lives. But that is the cost of discipleship.

"The cross is laid on every Christian. It begins with the call to abandon the attachments of this world. It is that dying of the old man which is the result of his encounter with Christ. As we embark upon discipleship we surrender ourselves to Christ in union with His death—we give over our lives to death. Since this happens at the beginning of the Christian life, the cross can never be merely a tragic ending to an otherwise happy religious life. When Christ calls a man, He bids him come and die. It may be a death like that of the first disciples who had to leave home and work to follow Him, or it may be a death like Luther’s, who had to leave the monastery and go out into the world. But it is the same death every time—death in Jesus Christ, the death of the old man at His call. That is why the rich young man was so loath to follow Jesus, for the cost of following was the death of his will. In fact every command of Jesus is a call to die, with all our affections and lusts. But we do not want to die, and therefore Jesus Christ and His call are necessarily our death and our life. Through the call he receives at his baptism, the Christian is committed to a daily warfare against the world, the flesh and the devil. Every day he encounters new temptations, and every day he must suffer anew for Jesus Christ’s sake. The wounds and scars he receives in the fray are living tokens of his participation in the cross of his Lord." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Cost of Discipleship, pp. 78-79

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Nihilist Virus]

The advice was offered to a man who was rich and who placed great value on his riches. Although he was obedient to the Mosaic Law, Jesus read his heart and noticed a certain character flaw and used him as an example. It wasn't meant as a command that all Christians should take a vow of poverty.

You're not Philemon, so maybe by this logic you don't need to read that epistle. The letters to Timothy and Titus are equally irrelevant to your life. You also don't attend the church in Corinth. We can also pitch Romans, Thessalonians, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You're not Philemon, so maybe by this logic you don't need to read that epistle. The letters to Timothy and Titus are equally irrelevant to your life. You also don't attend the church in Corinth. We can also pitch Romans, Thessalonians, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

Recognizing that the Apostle didn't write to us is an important part of properly exegeting the texts. Your argument fails, however, because nobody said that we shouldn't read what is written in the Gospel concerning Jesus' statement to the rich young ruler.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Extraneous]

I didn't vote, but i think that wealth will blind us, and it would be wise to pray for affliction rather than riches. The cross isn't padded with velvet, but it will strengthen us and sustain us when nothing else can. Its the most prized of all things. Only the cross can give us spiritual sight, hope, faith, and love. In my oinion

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Recognizing that the Apostle didn't write to us is an important part of properly exegeting the texts. Your argument fails, however, because nobody said that we shouldn't read what is written in the Gospel concerning Jesus' statement to the rich young ruler.

-CryptoLutheran

Ok. Read Paul's epistles but by no means must you live your life by the ideas contained within them. Agreed?

 

[Radrook]

You're not Philemon, so maybe by this logic you don't need to read that epistle. The letters to Timothy and Titus are equally irrelevant to your life. You also don't attend the church in Corinth. We can also pitch Romans, Thessalonians, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

Ok. Read Paul's epistles but by no means must you live your life by the ideas contained within them. Agreed?

Your advice goes completely contrary to the advice provided by the Bible itself.

2 Timothy 3:16 ►

New International Version
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.

All Scripture is God-Breathed
…15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Your advice goes completely contrary to the advice provided by the Bible itself.

Then why did you lead with, "The advice was offered to a man who was rich and who placed great value on his riches"?

 

[Radrook]

Then why did you lead with, "The advice was offered to a man who was rich and who placed great value on his riches"?

What is it that you find disturbing about that?

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Your options are all biased. There is a clear suggestion of material wealth in heaven in all of them. I am glad no one voted, as its a farce.

 

[Radrook]

Your options are all biased. There is a clear suggestion of material wealth in heaven in all of them. I am glad no one voted, as its a farce.

Yes, all the options are biased.

 

[Steeno7]

It seems to me that if one focuses on the "follow Me" part, whatever it is in our lives that is hindering that would be apparent.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Ok. Read Paul's epistles but by no means must you live your life by the ideas contained within them. Agreed?

Why? Did I suggest there's nothing to be learned or benefited from the episode concerning the rich young ruler? My posts earlier in this thread, in fact, state just the opposite.

The problem here seems to be that you want it to be one of two ways:

1) Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all he had and follow Jesus, therefore Christians ought to live in voluntary poverty.
2) Nothing in Scripture matters.

The problem is that we're telling you there's another option:

3) Jesus' statement to the rich young ruler is never suggested as a universal commandment for the Christian Church, but from it we learn that the call of discipleship from Jesus means a rejection of our lives--in the case of the rich young ruler it meant getting rid of all his material wealth, but for others it might be giving up their livelihood (as in the case of Peter and Andrew), or it may mean facing the chopping block, as St. Paul did when Nero had him beheaded. Voluntary poverty, or quitting your job isn't the call of discipleship, the call is "Come, follow Me" that may mean poverty, or losing your job, it may mean going out into the desert like St. Anthony, it may mean being stoned to death like St. Stephen, or being crucified like the martyrs of Nagasaki. What is important is the call, because it's the call to take up the cross and follow Him.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Nihilist Virus]

What is it that you find disturbing about that?

I never said I found anything disturbing.

You first said that the passage about selling all you have and giving to the poor was directed to one man and was not a command for all Christians.

I then commented that the same thing can be said of all of the epistles (some epistles were addressing an entire church, but the point remains).

You then came back at me saying that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Your options are all biased. There is a clear suggestion of material wealth in heaven in all of them. I am glad no one voted, as its a farce.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Yes, all the options are biased.

Firstly, you shouldn't lead with a "yes" to a post that is both rude and erroneous.

Secondly, what is biased about the options? What option is being left out?

 

[Hieronymus]

I simply don't have the faith to give up my few earthly securities.

...but iḿ quite poor already, so...

 

[Nihilist Virus]

It seems to me that if one focuses on the "follow Me" part, whatever it is in our lives that is hindering that would be apparent.

Do you own a TV? Do you own other luxury items that are completely irrelevant to your survival and spiritual growth? Also, are you aware that children are starving to death, dropping dead by the minute?

If you answered yes to all of these, then are you not living in a perpetual state of deliberate sin, no different from homosexuals, adulterers, thieves, and etc?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Why? Did I suggest there's nothing to be learned or benefited from the episode concerning the rich young ruler? My posts earlier in this thread, in fact, state just the opposite.

The problem here seems to be that you want it to be one of two ways:

1) Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all he had and follow Jesus, therefore Christians ought to live in voluntary poverty.
2) Nothing in Scripture matters.

The problem is that we're telling you there's another option:

3) Jesus' statement to the rich young ruler is never suggested as a universal commandment for the Christian Church, but from it we learn that the call of discipleship from Jesus means a rejection of our lives--in the case of the rich young ruler it meant getting rid of all his material wealth, but for others it might be giving up their livelihood (as in the case of Peter and Andrew), or it may mean facing the chopping block, as St. Paul did when Nero had him beheaded. Voluntary poverty, or quitting your job isn't the call of discipleship, the call is "Come, follow Me" that may mean poverty, or losing your job, it may mean going out into the desert like St. Anthony, it may mean being stoned to death like St. Stephen, or being crucified like the martyrs of Nagasaki. What is important is the call, because it's the call to take up the cross and follow Him.

-CryptoLutheran

Do you own a TV? Do you own other luxury items that are completely irrelevant to your survival and spiritual growth? Also, are you aware that children are starving to death, dropping dead by the minute?

If you answered yes to all of these, then are you not living in a perpetual state of deliberate sin, no different from homosexuals, adulterers, thieves, and etc?