• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Self Defense and Political Persecution

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by jisaiah6113, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. jisaiah6113

    jisaiah6113 New Member

    75
    +77
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    I’m a tall, white, conservative, and unashamedly Christian man in a city full of phony woke white activists and vindictive black people. Sorry if that offends you, but I’m not sorry because if you’ve never lived and worked in departments where you were the only white person multiple times, you don’t know what I’m talking about.
    That city is Washington DC.
    I’m trying to leave here by January when the new president is sworn in, particularly if it’s Kamala Harris (Joe Biden being the electable “place holder”).

    I have black people looking at me like the psalmist says. “They gape at me with their mouths, like a raging and roaring lion.” (Psalm 22) I feel that if there were no legal consequences, they would kill me. Particularly because I try not to portray fear around them.

    I believe I’m going to be assaulted and my question is, what do I do if I am assaulted? Do I fight back? I don’t see a justification in the gospel for fighting back, but then again, self defense is always justified when protecting others, like women and children.

    with the self righteous woke activists returning to my place of employment (a large university in the city) in the Fall, I’m looking for a way to move away to be with family. I’ve lived here for three years and I’ve had enough of the envy and fake activism of this place.

    Bonus if you can tell me what it’s like to be assaulted and what you can or should do to defend yourself.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

    +7,034
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    I haven't traded punches with somebody in forever. So I can't help you much there.

    But we live in a climate right now where I would encourage anybody to make a run for it in the event of an attack. Even if the courts of law might allow self-defense, the court of public opinion is far harsher. It's not worth getting cancelled when you defend yourself but your self-defense gets blasted out on social media as "Angry White Supremist Weirdo attacks other people for no reason". Look what happened with Sandmann, where nobody was willing to hear his side at first. Kid's life is ruined and he did literally nothing at all.

    So whatever it's worth coming from a total stranger, if you get attacked or something, I say run for your life and press charges later if you can. Be safe, bro.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  3. Aspzan

    Aspzan Well-Known Member Supporter

    839
    +577
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Single
    Jesus' instructions in Matthew 5:39 are about the response to personal insult. Not defending yourself. That's what I was taught and believe anyway. If you've never been in a physical fight it's common to panic if a good punch lands or when you're in serious danger. Judo or boxing training would be good prep for an assault.
     
  4. Amittai

    Amittai monitor evaluator

    909
    +298
    United Kingdom
    Non-Denom
    Single
    5:39 is about daring assertion - about giving cheek (to induce the other party to show themselves up - not in trickery, but with them stopping to think as the preferred outcome).

    Burdening a civvy with your pack the second mile was punishable (unless your superior let you off of course) and the return slap was thought beneath dignity.

    Jesus' audience will have been enjoying the jollity at this point in the teachings (as at so many others).

    Running for it sounds like a plausible enough expression of this principle. (With my stamina, this will be a saunter.) However, I wonder if they will then react the same way as if you run from a potentially out of control police officer?

    In 2011 a lot of people throughout England lost their homes to arsonists (jumping out of upper floors). Also sole traders got burned out.

    Church laity and officers, and secular commercial and administrative positions, seem full of gangsters these days. None of them have got the principle of principle. They are going to come for us because we don't go through the "right" motions. Artificial unintelligence has got us reduced.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. Amittai

    Amittai monitor evaluator

    909
    +298
    United Kingdom
    Non-Denom
    Single
    In 1965 I was being punched by another boy - not badly so I admit it was easy - and due to weakness and uncoordination I didn't happen to do anything - and he gave me a weird look and went away and I thought, "I've just stopped a fight".

    Not that I disapprove of those who return the compliment in kind (and get unfairly accused). I just seem fated to be an "original" that's all.

    This is probably the key - pray that God will always keep you "original".
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  6. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

    +7,034
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    "Turn the other cheek".

    Context matters. So as a general statement which is not directed at anybody in particular...

    All of the actions Our Lord told His followers to perform are actually passive-aggressive actions meant to oppose and resist Jerusalem's Roman occupiers. Like, turning the other cheek is actually a matter of forcing the Roman to either break proper slapping etiquette or to hit you properly -- thereby treating you like you're his equal rather than somebody that he's subjugating.

    If a debtor is taking all of your possessions in court, you include the shirt off your back so his greed is causing you to commit public nudity.

    And when a soldier forces you to carry his equipment (as per the law of the time), you go the extra mile with him -- literally carrying his bag beyond the distance that the law stipulates and therefore making the action illegal.

    Context matters, y'all. So really, what the OP is talking about has nothing to do with Our Lord's instructions to His followers.
     
  7. Aspzan

    Aspzan Well-Known Member Supporter

    839
    +577
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Single
    I think some of that agrees with the sermon I heard about it. It was a while a go so I don't remember except the carrying of the Roman's equipment part and the strike being more of an insult than an attack.
     
  8. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

    +3,528
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    What are the chances that you’ll get attacked? Do you know others who have been? Why would you be a target, if you’re not instigating anything?

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with thinking through how you’d handle a worst case scenario, but for your mental health and peace of mind you may want to think about how to manage the fear and release it.
     
  9. Rachel20

    Rachel20 Member

    99
    +95
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    If I were living in a dense city in these troubled times, I would move. Proverbs 22:3
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  10. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

    +1,510
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    If confronted by a mob e.g. Antifa, I wouldn't confront. A mob mentality doesn't listen very well and works off raw emotion.

    2 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV) (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  11. jacks

    jacks Er Victus Supporter

    +1,417
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. While it may come to a point you are in an actual physical confrontation, perhaps you can avoid it all together by not only "not portraying fear" but portraying love. (Well friendliness at least.) People tend to react to us in a way similar to how we react to them. Make a point of being extra friendly to your co-workers you will both feel better. I should mention I do get what you're saying; I've felt like all black people hate me right now too, (All the media stuff.) until I start talking with them, then the feeling usually goes away.

    And if none of this works... stay on your feet and keep your hands up. :)
     
  12. TexFire316

    TexFire316 Come as a child, with no agenda

    104
    +72
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Did you miss the part where Jesus said to go get a sword? Defend yourself and those around you. Nothing wrong with being afraid, its what you do when you know that you're afraid that counts. And if you refuse to defend yourself, then brothers like me will be forced to leave off protecting our families to come and protect you. A grown man that worships my God.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  13. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

    +1,561
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    UK-Independence-Party
    Despite being the reference point for Christian pacifism, Matthew 5 make no such requirement. In fact Jesus is teaching the entire opposite of how most people interpret it.

    Matthew5 was aimed at those who thought they could attain righteousness by good and perfect behaviour, and was never intended as additions to the Law of Moses, or New Testament rules of Christian behaviour.

    When it came to obtaining righteousness and eternal life, the Pharisees were the local benchmark, thus we see Jesus making it clear their standard still wasn't good enough.-
    Matt5v20For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Which is why in the following verses, he points out that it wasn't murder that excluded you from heaven, but merely being angry also excluded you.
    22But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.
    Likewise long before the active sin of adultery takes place, lust alone is enough to exclude you from heaven.

    From a spiritual perspective, sin starts in the heart, and whether carried to fulfilment or not, such uncleanness is always visible to God. So for all those hopefuls who imagine they can self perfect, how do we purge such evils from our being?

    The solution is simple really, it just needs a sharp knife or maybe an axe.-
    29If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

    The slightest modicum of common sense should tell people that the whole narrative here is completely bizarre and unreal, and that Jesus intended it to be so!

    So does anyone still take Matt5 as NT instructions for Christian living?

    Lets continue through the next verses, taking note of an eye for an eye and tooth for tooth, taking note of turning the other cheek, taking note of lending your cloak and walking the extra mile, etc. etc. we suddenly come to this wake up call...........
    Matt5v48Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

    Did anyone get that? In order to enter heaven, we have to be as perfect as God!
    Well, I can assure everyone here that I am utterly doomed and without hope, even if I had obeyed and chopped arms legs eyes and genitals off. Even as a basket case, when it comes to self perfection, my destination is still eternal damnation.

    So where does that lead us? Didn't that last verse about being like God ring a bell from long long ago?
    Gen3v4Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

    Yes, there it is, the temptation, wanting to be like God.

    In reality, Matt5 is a lesson in futility, not commandments for life. The definitive proof should be the commandment to chop your hands off of pluck your eyes out. ie. If you believe turning the other cheek is mandated, you must also accept chopping your hand off is mandated for anger.
    If you lay claim to one part, you lay claim to the whole.

    Righteousness is not found in turning the other cheek, but in being led by the Holy Spirit. There will be times to turn the other cheek, and times to vigorously fight to the death, and of course anywhere between these two extremes.

    Jn15v13Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

    You cannot lay down your life for the benefit of anyone, let alone friends and family, if you remain passive in the face of violence!

    Let yourself be led by the Holy Spirit, not self righteous religious dogma!
     
  14. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

    +1,357
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Most of the cowards will not come at you one on one unless they have a weapon of some type. If you do not defend yourself you can expect grievous injury or death. Go to an MMA studio and learn just two or three things you can master and use, practice all you can because when you need it, it has to be automatic. Learn situational awareness so that you can recognize an unsafe condition before you walk into it. If it is legal to have capstun in you area, it is very effective. Travel in a group. If you are alone make casual eye contact in a non treating way, look like you know where you are going, do not assume a victim profile. Self defense instructors can explain some of these things to you. If you are in a fight for your life do not give up and always use anything you can put your hands on as a weapon. Car keys, rolled up newspaper, stick, rock, chair, anything is better than nothing.
     
  15. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

    +9,611
    Romania
    Christian
    Married
    I don’t know what the situation is there exactly but I think it’s important for anyone to develop a ‘work face’. Regardless of the political climate at any given time, anyone working in local
    Govt (my mum and my brother both worked in govt for a number of years and I managed a few NHS funded projects) has to develop that, whatever way the political wind is blowing it’s going to ruffle one person’s feathers or another. I’d suggest trying that, develop a mask in the workplace you can take off when you get home. While at work you can just get your stuff done, don’t burden yourself with the rest of it.
     
Loading...