Seeming hypocrisy of the US Church

[Ana the Ist]

I read your OP carefully and knew that you were black already. Score one for reading carefully!

My friend posted this recently and I actually watched the whole lecture. I don't remember if it specifically deals much with your topic, but in a broad sense I think it may be helpful. I consider myself to be enlightened (somewhat!) about race, and much of this was quite eye opening for me.

I watched just under 15 mins of it, and I found the speaker to be embarrassingly naive. The foundation of her argument is false and she doesn't understand what the cause of post traumatic stress disorder is.

 

[rturner76]

I watched just under 15 mins of it, and I found the speaker to be embarrassingly naive. The foundation of her argument is false and she doesn't understand what the cause of post traumatic stress disorder is.

It was Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome and you have no place to comment on it because your people were not traumatized generation after generation for hundreds of years.

 

[Occams Barber]

WWC
Thank you for this video.
I watched the whole thing and, in spite of not being American, I found it confronting and a valuable lesson in the insidious, ongoing impact of 246 years of black slavery on current black (and white) society. There are a number of posters on CF who would benefit from watching this but these same posters are the ones who would never bother.
Thanks again.
OB

 

[Ana the Ist]

It was Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome and you have no place to comment on it because your people were not traumatized generation after generation for hundreds of years.

Oh I know what she said, but post traumatic slave disorder isn't a thing. She made it up to explain away the poor behavior/attitudes of some blacks.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It was Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome and you have no place to comment on it because your people were not traumatized generation after generation for hundreds of years.

Also, I'm about 25% Scottish...so yes, my people were actually subjugated, often quite violently, for more centuries than any blacks were slaves in the U.S.

I'm just going to use that as an excuse for any poor behavior i might exhibit and since you aren't white rturner, you have no place in commenting on it.

 

[Hank77]

I read your OP carefully and knew that you were black already. Score one for reading carefully!

My friend posted this recently and I actually watched the whole lecture. I don't remember if it specifically deals much with your topic, but in a broad sense I think it may be helpful. I consider myself to be enlightened (somewhat!) about race, and much of this was quite eye opening for me.

Interesting discussion. Well worth the time it took to watch it.

 

[quietpraiyze]

Actually, I am a black person who has black friends and has been to a black church.

While I do believe that people have the right to post whatever they want, I will take a moment and speak to you. As an African American woman, I don't usually respond to your post which to me seems to be a form of passive aggressive hatred toward African Americans. Have you ever taken any of your so called "concerns" about African Americans to any of the African American forums on the internet? If not why not or is this about currying the favor of white people? Tear black people down and white people will like you? I ask because while there are people of color on CF, in the 5+ years I've been here I've never known there to be a large number of African American participants (and no I don't know everyone) but this would leave you with predominately white people that you're saying these things too. I think you know that and that's why you do it.

Also on CF there are people who say very nasty and ugly things about us African Americans. They keep us in negative rotation in the Current Events forum. So what makes your post different from theirs? All I see you doing is constantly tearing down African Americans, from posting negative videos to negative post. From what I've observed, you never have anything good to say about African Americans. It really does look to me like a form of self hatred on your part. The ugly things you constantly say about African Americans, would you say those things about anybody else especially whites?

 

[rainbow42]

While I do believe that people have the right to post whatever they want, I will take a moment and speak to you. As an African American woman, I don't usually respond to your post which to me seems to be a form of passive aggressive hatred toward African Americans. Have you ever taken any of your so called "concerns" about African Americans to any of the African American forums on the internet? If not why not or is this about currying the favor of white people? Tear black people down and white people will like you? I ask because while there are people of color on CF, in the 5+ years I've been here I've never known there to be a large number of African American participants (and no I don't know everyone) but this would leave you with predominately white people that you're saying these things too. I think you know that and that's why you do it.

Also on CF there are people who say very nasty and ugly things about us African Americans. They keep us in negative rotation in the Current Events forum. So what makes your post different from theirs? All I see you doing is constantly tearing down African Americans, from posting negative videos to negative post. From what I've observed, you never have anything good to say about African Americans. It really does look to me like a form of self hatred on your part. The ugly things you constantly say about African Americans, would you say those things about anybody else especially whites?

IMHO, there is only one race and that is the human race. I will associate with anyone who shower me with respect and the same to all others. There is good & bad in every race. It is the media that is the culprit because it feed into stereotypes and myths about Black people because it sells in America. A good example of this is the killing of two NYPD cops by a Black man, which stayed in media 'forever.' Then we had the worst mass killing in American history at Virginia Tech, which was done by a South Korean. It stayed in the news for a few days because the South Korean government pleaded with the American government to shutdown the story. And the Obama administration did.

 

[Lik3]

While I do believe that people have the right to post whatever they want, I will take a moment and speak to you. As an African American woman, I don't usually respond to your post which to me seems to be a form of passive aggressive hatred toward African Americans. Have you ever taken any of your so called "concerns" about African Americans to any of the African American forums on the internet? If not why not or is this about currying the favor of white people? Tear black people down and white people will like you? I ask because while there are people of color on CF, in the 5+ years I've been here I've never known there to be a large number of African American participants (and no I don't know everyone) but this would leave you with predominately white people that you're saying these things too. I think you know that and that's why you do it.

Also on CF there are people who say very nasty and ugly things about us African Americans. They keep us in negative rotation in the Current Events forum. So what makes your post different from theirs? All I see you doing is constantly tearing down African Americans, from posting negative videos to negative post. From what I've observed, you never have anything good to say about African Americans. It really does look to me like a form of self hatred on your part. The ugly things you constantly say about African Americans, would you say those things about anybody else especially whites?

What ugly things? What self-hatred? You must have misinterpreted at least one of my posts. I am not ashamed of being black. What are you writing about? None of my posts reflect self-hatred. What negative videos? Could you clarify that for me as I obviously don't agree with you? I mean no disrespect, but is this a joke?

 

[Lik3]

I dont know where you get your information from, probably youtube, but I dont understand why you make the claim that "black american churches" preach more against homosexuality then against social issues. I think the recent issue of homosexuality has happened in the past few years, yet the injustice you speak of has been happening since they were brought to America as slaves. So that is ingrained in black american history, and is systemic. The issue of homosexuality is recent, so there will be more spoken against it which you will find because it is a recent topic. IT doesn't mean that they are still not bringing up issues of education, police abuse etc. By the way homosexuality is a sin. If your problem is that the black church don't care enough about homosexuals (whichever youtube video you got that from) I suggest you head to a black church and speak with the pastor.

Also on your quote that you say the black man is becoming an endangered species is false. A species is an organism that only mates inside its population without other groups, black people can mate with whites, who can mate with chinese, who can mate with indian. There is only one species, the human species created by God. You are upset about the black church supposedly alienating gays yet in your post you show lack of understanding and are alienating the black church from the rest of the body of Christ. I doubt as well you have ever been to a black church, or possibly have a black friend for that matter. I am noticing your hypocrisy.

I need to change the Title like I did in my video. I realize that I have tried to change the titles of my threads before but to no avail. Anyways, what is going on in the black church could be a symbol of the American church.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

.

 

[rturner76]

I guess that explains why I am not a doctor or lawyer.

It could. You know Willie Lynch said that if his methods were adopted, it would essentially affect black people for 300 years, possibly thousands.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I find it somewhat strange that some black people oppose same sex marriage, when interracial marriage was legalised not that long ago.

Are you suprised when someone likes oranges but not apples?

 

[rturner76]

Also, I'm about 25% Scottish...so yes, my people were actually subjugated, often quite violently, for more centuries than any blacks were slaves in the U.S.

I'm just going to use that as an excuse for any poor behavior i might exhibit and since you aren't white rturner, you have no place in commenting on it.

I must admit I was wrong for saying you had no place to comment. This is an open forum and everyone has a place to comment on whatever subject is presented. Please accept my apology. It was an emotional response to what I felt was an inconsiderate critique of, in my opinion a very important lecture. One that to me, explains some of the cultural baggage black Americans carry. Some, not all. I feel Willie Lynch's methods speak to some of the emotional baggage black American culture carries. Some, not all.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Why, exactly, is it hypocrisy if black preachers are homophobic? I didn't quite get the rationale there.

 

[rainbow42]

What ugly things? What self-hatred? You must have misinterpreted at least one of my posts. I am not ashamed of being black. What are you writing about? None of my posts reflect self-hatred. What negative videos? Could you clarify that for me as I obviously don't agree with you? I mean no disrespect, but is this a joke?

There are many reasons why most Blacks are badly faltering in everyday life, and they badly need guidance and instructions
on how to excel and survive. Yes, there are blockages and ceilings in place that makes it more difficult to survive in a environment that despise you. However, there are Blacks who have survived the hostile environment and doing exceptionally well. Sadly, many of these impoverished Blacks are having a difficult time accepting criticism & advice and would rather do without help, thus sinking deeper in poverty. I have tried to help Blacks in need but get insulted and harassed. They want to survive on other Blacks at their convenience. If they don't listen or accept criticism for their lifestyle, then there isn't anything affluent Blacks or anyone can do to help them. They must have the initiative to help themselves before others can assist them. Unfortunately, many Blacks (not all) are looking for a "free ride," rather than do it themselves. So, it is irrational when other Blacks try to cover up the magnitude of the problem by imposing the "self-hate" rhetoric on Blacks who are in the position to help them the most. This was not a problem in the early 6o's and before when most Blacks were poor and were willing to lend a helping hand. In summary, there isn't anything wrong criticizing others if your intentions are honorable and sincere. Criticisms should and will sparks changes for the better. A good example of this was the Civil Rights Movement. I think many Blacks are simply embarrassed with the Black plight and believe it is best for other Blacks not to talk about. For some Black Christians I find this form of ignorance to be deplorable. I believe the Bible verses below explain it better.

II Timothy 4:2-4
II Chronicles 7:14

Keep up the good posting Lik3

 

[quietpraiyze]

What ugly things? What self-hatred? You must have misinterpreted at least one of my posts. I am not ashamed of being black. What are you writing about? None of my posts reflect self-hatred. What negative videos? Could you clarify that for me as I obviously don't agree with you? I mean no disrespect, but is this a joke?

I'm not surprised that you would think it's a joke or that you would possibly think it's a compliment when someone tells you to keep writing these negative post/threads about African Americans on a predominately white forum. Nothing suspect about that is there? Your response of trying to deflect by primarily focusing on the self hate comment doesn't surprise me either. Why do you seem to have a problem with what I said when you seem to be fine posting negative things about African Americans? Everyone on CF has a record of their post/threads/videos. If you were really interested you would take the time to review some of them. If you don't know the negative videos that you have posted regarding African Americans, that speaks volumes. So no I won't be explaining further and no this is not a joke. I am very serious but like I said people are free to post what they want and others are free to respond.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm not surprised that you would think it's a joke or that you would possibly think it's a compliment when someone tells you to keep writing these negative post/threads about African Americans on a predominately white forum. Nothing suspect about that is there? Your response of trying to deflect by primarily focusing on the self hate comment doesn't surprise me either. Why do you seem to have a problem with what I said when you seem to be fine posting negative things about African Americans? Everyone on CF has a record of their post/threads/videos. If you were really interested you would take the time to review some of them. If you don't know the negative videos that you have posted regarding African Americans, that speaks volumes. So no I won't be explaining further and no this is not a joke. I am very serious but like I said people are free to post what they want and others are free to respond.

What exactly is the problem with looking for an outside perspective on the problems within a particular community?

Do you think that she would get better answers from the black community itself?

When one wants to examine the problems of a particular community, don't you see value in seeking the perspective of those who aren't entrenched within the thinking of that particular community?

On a personal note, do you go to forums for the black community and question them as to why they don't take their complaints/objections/observations of the white community to forums for the white community?

 

[quietpraiyze]

What exactly is the problem with looking for an outside perspective on the problems within a particular community?

Do you think that she would get better answers from the black community itself?

When one wants to examine the problems of a particular community, don't you see value in seeking the perspective of those who aren't entrenched within the thinking of that particular community?

On a personal note, do you go to forums for the black community and question them as to why they don't take their complaints/objections/observations of the white community to forums for the white community?

I really don't think that's what's going on here. From what I've observed there are quite a few people on CF who say they are Christians who say nasty negative things about us African Americans. I don't think that gets past anyone who has been on CF for at least maybe 3 months. I'm concerned because I feel her post feeds into that climate but since she's an African American woman it makes it okay for some people who have those negative views of us to voice them all the more so. Their not trying to get answers about anything or help. They just enjoy tearing African Americans down. I'm not saying it's everyone but they're always in the mix with their negativity.

I see the value when those who say they are Christian actually are and come from a biblical perspective but that rarely happens. I've observed many “christians” being just fine saying very ugly things. As a matter of fact to me many of the non-Christians have been more Christ like when it comes to the us African Americans. And that's quite an indictment. It also helps when people have real relationship within the community. There's always a night and day difference with those who do vs. those who don't. I've seen A LOT of conjecture and google conversations on CF but many times not anything real in terms of people who personally have African American friends/family. It's few and far between but what I know is that those who do usually don't participate in tearing African Americans down. While it makes me wonder what is the benefit to those who like tearing us down? You might try and call it something else but that is exactly what it is. Also I've not ever really seen whites tear down other whites in the same manner on CF considering the fact that there are more differences within the groups than between them.

Actually I have gone to African Americans and asked this question in reverse. Some of the responses I've gotten were very interesting including how do I know the person who makes these negative post is really African American. I hadn't thought of that but that was really something to consider. People lie and misrepresent who they are all the time on the internet. Wouldn't you think something was strange if a white person only went to black forums and tore down white people? I would be asking them if they went and shared their “concerns” with other white people? I also might think they were a troll. What I have noticed is that as a group we don't really talk a lot about white people. I think it's because while we know some whites are going through it especially with the heroin epidemic, crystal meth, human trafficking, etc. we have a multitude of social/spiritual issues that we are dealing with. So in the larger scheme of things while we may be aware, white people aren't primary. There's almost like a general consensus, they're white they'll be fine.

I hope I've answered your questions

 

[Ana the Ist]

I really don't think that's what's going on here. From what I've observed there are quite a few people on CF who say they are Christians who say nasty negative things about us African Americans. I don't think that gets past anyone who has been on CF for at least maybe 3 months. I'm concerned because I feel her post feeds into that climate but since she's an African American woman it makes it okay for some people who have those negative views of us to voice them all the more so. Their not trying to get answers about anything or help. They just enjoy tearing African Americans down. I'm not saying it's everyone but they're always in the mix with their negativity.

I see the value when those who say they are Christian actually are and come from a biblical perspective but that rarely happens. I've observed many “christians” being just fine saying very ugly things. As a matter of fact to me many of the non-Christians have been more Christ like when it comes to the us African Americans. And that's quite an indictment. It also helps when people have real relationship within the community. There's always a night and day difference with those who do vs. those who don't. I've seen A LOT of conjecture and google conversations on CF but many times not anything real in terms of people who personally have African American friends/family. It's few and far between but what I know is that those who do usually don't participate in tearing African Americans down. While it makes me wonder what is the benefit to those who like tearing us down? You might try and call it something else but that is exactly what it is. Also I've not ever really seen whites tear down other whites in the same manner on CF considering the fact that there are more differences within the groups than between them.

Actually I have gone to African Americans and asked this question in reverse. Some of the responses I've gotten were very interesting including how do I know the person who makes these negative post is really African American. I hadn't thought of that but that was really something to consider. People lie and misrepresent who they are all the time on the internet. Wouldn't you think something was strange if a white person only went to black forums and tore down white people? I would be asking them if they went and shared their “concerns” with other white people? I also might think they were a troll. What I have noticed is that as a group we don't really talk a lot about white people. I think it's because while we know some whites are going through it especially with the heroin epidemic, crystal meth, human trafficking, etc. we have a multitude of social/spiritual issues that we are dealing with. So in the larger scheme of things while we may be aware, white people aren't primary. There's almost like a general consensus, they're white they'll be fine.

I hope I've answered your questions

I really don't think that's what's going on here. From what I've observed there are quite a few people on CF who say they are Christians who say nasty negative things about us African Americans. I don't think that gets past anyone who has been on CF for at least maybe 3 months. I'm concerned because I feel her post feeds into that climate but since she's an African American woman it makes it okay for some people who have those negative views of us to voice them all the more so. Their not trying to get answers about anything or help. They just enjoy tearing African Americans down. I'm not saying it's everyone but they're always in the mix with their negativity.

I see the value when those who say they are Christian actually are and come from a biblical perspective but that rarely happens. I've observed many “christians” being just fine saying very ugly things. As a matter of fact to me many of the non-Christians have been more Christ like when it comes to the us African Americans. And that's quite an indictment. It also helps when people have real relationship within the community. There's always a night and day difference with those who do vs. those who don't. I've seen A LOT of conjecture and google conversations on CF but many times not anything real in terms of people who personally have African American friends/family. It's few and far between but what I know is that those who do usually don't participate in tearing African Americans down. While it makes me wonder what is the benefit to those who like tearing us down? You might try and call it something else but that is exactly what it is. Also I've not ever really seen whites tear down other whites in the same manner on CF considering the fact that there are more differences within the groups than between them.

Actually I have gone to African Americans and asked this question in reverse. Some of the responses I've gotten were very interesting including how do I know the person who makes these negative post is really African American. I hadn't thought of that but that was really something to consider. People lie and misrepresent who they are all the time on the internet. Wouldn't you think something was strange if a white person only went to black forums and tore down white people? I would be asking them if they went and shared their “concerns” with other white people? I also might think they were a troll. What I have noticed is that as a group we don't really talk a lot about white people. I think it's because while we know some whites are going through it especially with the heroin epidemic, crystal meth, human trafficking, etc. we have a multitude of social/spiritual issues that we are dealing with. So in the larger scheme of things while we may be aware, white people aren't primary. There's almost like a general consensus, they're white they'll be fine.

I hope I've answered your questions

You have answered...and I know that my questions were rather direct, so I appreciate you not taking offense.

As for the racists...well, they're racist. The internet is a place where they get to express their racist views rather freely, and I think that you're always going to find them more common on threads like these. I don't think that's an excuse, and I know it isn't a solution...I'm just saying it as a way of explanation.

As to whites who tear down other whites...it reminded me of a conversation I heard recently. It was during an online game that I overheard what sounded like a discussion between a very young white boy and girl. Without any prompt...the boy told the girl that he "loved black people...hated white people...and wished sometimes that everyone was black."

I think his motivation was simply to avoid the common stereotyped that all whites are racist. He was saying these things too "look good" in the girl's eyes. I don't think Lik3 necessarily has a similar motivation...I think she's genuinely interested in other's perspectives. She often "likes" my posts even when my perspective is in far disagreement from her own.

As a general rule though, I try not to analyze personal motivations for the creation of threads. While I can understand why it's a concern for you...I think if we were to all do it frequently, we'd never get to discuss the actual threads themselves.

Thanks for your reply.