Seeking the truth: seeking an encounter with God and receiving the silent treatment

[friend of]

Jesus gave them authority to do that:

Meaning they had the Holy Spirit at that time.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Meaning they had the Holy Spirit at that time.

Yes, but again, having the Holy Spirit and receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit are two different experiences. I already wrote you a thorough answer explaining why.

 

[friend of]

Now we really disagree

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Now we really disagree

I know, but as I said, in a previous post I presented to you evidence in the Scriptures that the baptism in the Holy Spirit happens after conversion and even multiple times. What do you make of that evidence?

 

[friend of]

I know, but as I said, in a previous post I presented to you evidence in the Scriptures that the baptism in the Holy Spirit happens after conversion and even multiple times. What do you make of that evidence?

it pertained to the time back then

 

[fhansen]

For more than 7 months I've been researching the spirit realm. I've watched more than 300 (and counting) testimonies including even whole books with hundreds of pages each. Take a look at the testimonies I've watched in this link (work in progress).

At the same time, I've been seeking a personal encounter with God all along. Unfortunately, all I receive is silence. The silent treatment.

What can I do? On the one hand, I've come across astonishing mind-blowing powerful supernatural testimonies of the spirit realm, but on the other hand, I only receive silence, and it's been like that for 7 months now.

I just don't understand what's the matter. This paradox between astonishing testimonies vs null personal experience is driving me crazy.

I feel like getting myself enclosed in a room for 10 days straight for full-time praying and fasting (like the apostles in the upper room), but frustratingly and sadly I just don't have the privacy and the time to do it (I'm burdened with the responsibilities of studying a PhD). I really wish I could.

What can I do?

Classical theology maintains that faith, itself, is a supernatural gift, a dim foretaste, even, of the much more immediate and fully satisfying knowledge of God that we will experience in the next life when we finally meet Him "face to face". But God can give us profound "glimpses" of this or other experiences in the here and now, at His discretion and for His purposes. The main thing is that we continue to seek Him, continue to strive to do His will, to humbly walk with Him and to grow in love for Him and neighbor-and to act on that love. We don't need any particular or special experience necessarily-we leave that up to Him and His wisdom. Our faith should not hinge on such things. Having said that, desiring to be close to God is never a bad thing.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

it pertained to the time back then

And why would it be different now?

 

[DebbieJ]

But we still have the responsibility to seek the best gifts in a proactive manner:

I've nothing more to add. I'm just repeating myself. lol

 

[TruthSeek3r]

I've nothing more to add. I'm just repeating myself. lol

So you are going to completely disregard the verses I shared. Great.

 

[DebbieJ]

So you are going to completely disregard the verses I shared. Great.

Not really. I just don't like repeating myself.

This will be my last post here.

 

[DamianWarS]

At the same time, I've been seeking a personal encounter with God all along. Unfortunately, all I receive is silence. The silent treatment.

did you every consider silence is the encounter? God has power and presence over all things and this includes silence. don't look for God through someone else's experience, if you do then you are chacing the experience, not God. open your eyes, God is right there. How you sense him is your condition, not God's.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Not really. I just don't like repeating myself.

This will be my last post here.

No problem. Thanks for the conversation. Btw, this might be interesting to you.

 

[friend of]

And why would it be different now?

Because laying on of the hands is not required to be baptized by the Holy Spirit. Bible says if you believe you are sealed. He will send a comforter to be with you forever.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Because laying on of the hands is not required to be baptized by the Holy Spirit.

Again, the laying on of hands was not mandatory in the time of the book of Acts either. Pentecost and Cornelius are two examples in the book of Acts where the baptism of the Holy Spirit occurred without the laying on of hands.

Bible says if you believe you are sealed. He will send a comforter to be with you forever.

Correct, but that's not the same as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Again, I showed you in a previous post many examples in the Bible clearly showing that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a second experience different from and happening after conversion.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Feeling super encouraged after watching this:

 

[Monksailor]

Truthseek3r, In post #18 you say that you are "seeking a personal encounter with God" and desiring of "meeting Him personally." You have changed your left margin religion from "other" to "Christian" since I wrote my post. It still remains to be said that if you are a Christian you ALREADY HAVE had a personal encounter with God and have met Him. The Christian God is the FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT in ONE. There is no other way to describe one making themselves so vulnerable and turning to God and admitting how deeply depraved and sinful they are and in need of a Savior than a personal encounter. And when in faith they take the gracious gift of forgiveness and redemption through the Son and embrace it one HAS met God. There are many, many links online like these two and probably much better but time precludes an exhaustive search for you, which explain what I have just said maybe in a better way:

5 Things That Happen When You Encounter Jesus | Christ Chapel Bible Church | A Church Without Walls | Fort Worth, TX | Willow Park, TX

A Personal Encounter with God... -

You said, "Ok, but you are forgetting a third option: having both experience and obedience. They are not mutually exclusive. Just read the book of Acts, there you have plenty of examples of having both experience and obedience."

Yes, experience as a Christian does develop better obedience. Our experiences God uses to mold and shape us into what He wants us to be. And we daily, every breath, experience God as we rejoice in the hope that is ours, revel in the beauty of His creation, observe how He is working in our and other's lives, and see how AWESOME He is through becoming familiar with His Word, Him. It is a GREAT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. We become a "child of God," an "adopted" child of God, the Creator and Sustainer of the whole universe when we are saved/born-again. You do not think that that this is a great personal experience??? God is not just speaking figuratively or intellectually when He tells us this. He has CHOSEN us to become His children, ALL-POWERFUL, ALL-KNOWING, and ALL-PRESENT GOD!!! And every one of us deserved nothing but total and complete separation from HIS wonderful, unimagiable love spending eternity in the burning furnace, the lake of fire, eternal punishment because of our condition beforehand. Each and every one of our best or "goodest" works or deeds are as filthy rags in God's sight. Isa 64:6

Next time, when I have time for another post here, I will address your seeming to think that a personal encounter with God must equate to some kind of magnificent, exciting, emotionally elating, experience of the Holy Ghost or Spirit making a "memorable" moment and what a testimony is. But it seems like the others here have already done a very excellent job of explaining things. I promised a response and that I will give.

 

[Mokelizer]

This is straight from the heart:

So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.

And when Jesus saw that he became very sorrowful, He said, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God! 25 For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
And those who heard it said, “Who then can be saved?”But He said,“The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.”
Then Peter said, “See, we have left all and followed You.”!!!! Luke 18:22-24

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us," Hebrews 12:1

Last Verse:
"Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. Matthew 24:15

I pray this strikes well with you and I pray for you brother and that your Sight is restored.

 

[Mokelizer]

I haven't received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit either. So how can you expect me to witness to other people if:

• I don't have a testimony to witness about and (WELL SAID!!!)
• I haven't received the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet?

[/QUOTE]
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. Revelation 12:11

 

[Monksailor]

While on this topic I think I should share an experience I had in my early years of being a Christian and seeking out a new church after a move:

I was greeted and treated normally as I entered the church. The sermon had begun and as usual I was listening intently. Then all of a sudden someone interrupted by jumping up and for a couple of minutes started shouting strange, unintelligible words. I was expecting someone like an usher to quickly remove this very inconsiderate person so we could get on with the sermon but no one came so I looked to the Pastor to see if he was coming himself but he had just stepped back from the pulpit. Finally, that rude person sat down in silence and after a moment of waiting the Pastor stepped forward and continued his sermon. Finally, I thought and got back into listening intently somewhat suspicious of such a disheveled (disordered) service. Nobody seemed to be bothered by the interruption as if it were normal? Anyway, after another few minutes another jumped up and interrupted the sermon and started babbling something aloud again and eventually sat down, a silent pause, then the sermon continued. I am getting pretty concerned at this point. What was going on??? I could not understand why a church would allow such a disrespectful outburst of meaningless babbling, esp right in the middle of the sermon!!! It actually happened a third time while the poor Pastor was trying to a give comprehend-able sermon to the body. Well, I totally lost track of the sermon after the second outburst and just resigned to "being there" as a pew warmer and looked forward to maybe ending the visit with some good fellowship and maybe a few questions answered. At the end though, everyone just mobbed forward in one huge ball (seriously) of hugging arms not even knowing who they were hugging or kissing and knocking over chairs and almost other people. It was something like I would picture as the beginning of an orgie. It was absolutely chaotic!!!! I just left that place totally disillusioned by what I had experienced inside in contrast with what I had read outside the church.

Later I discovered that there is actually a denomination of Christianity in which such behavior is normal and that the babbling is what they call speaking in tongues. Maybe for them but NOT for me, ever! Such interruptions and destruction of comprehension of a sermon which the Pastor may have spent long, hard hours preparing for his flock should never be allowed. Never!!! There was not one offering of what all of that meaningless babbling was supposed to mean. It was just gibberish. Vainly glorifying themselves is all it amounted to as far as I was concerned. "Look at me aren't I great? I can get away with destroying the Pastor's sermon with shouting crazy words no one understands or explains and no one stops me."

But there is something about the excitement and jazz of that overall experience which somehow attracts people. The massing forward in a chaotic mob of senseless and aimless hugging and the ones jumping up and acting crazy in the middle of the sermon. My wife's experience as a child in such a church scared her to death as they were actually wildly throwing church Hymnals (irreverent and expensive and dangerous) through the air across the church and she almost got hit. Some, no a LOT, of people like such disorder and chaos. I found out later that that talking in tongues in church without it being interpreted is taboo/against God's Word yet it was allowed three times. Some people seem to be drawn to such emotional chaos and experiential, emotionally amazing things though that, that church allowed it and actually grew exponentially in the subsequent years. Unbelievable. They had to move to the outskirts of Lansing, MI to build a bldg large enough to hold all of them. To each their own, I guess. Ro 14 allows for such differentiation in the way one worships the Lord, as long as they do it to the glory and honor of the Lord, and not themselves. But seeking self-glorification is a sin.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

While on this topic I think I should share an experience I had in my early years of being a Christian and seeking out a new church after a move:

I was greeted and treated normally as I entered the church. The sermon had begun and as usual I was listening intently. Then all of a sudden someone interrupted by jumping up and for a couple of minutes started shouting strange, unintelligible words. I was expecting someone like an usher to quickly remove this very inconsiderate person so we could get on with the sermon but no one came so I looked to the Pastor to see if he was coming himself but he had just stepped back from the pulpit. Finally, that rude person sat down in silence and after a moment of waiting the Pastor stepped forward and continued his sermon. Finally, I thought and got back into listening intently somewhat suspicious of such a disheveled (disordered) service. Nobody seemed to be bothered by the interruption as if it were normal? Anyway, after another few minutes another jumped up and interrupted the sermon and started babbling something aloud again and eventually sat down, a silent pause, then the sermon continued. I am getting pretty concerned at this point. What was going on??? I could not understand why a church would allow such a disrespectful outburst of meaningless babbling, esp right in the middle of the sermon!!! It actually happened a third time while the poor Pastor was trying to a give comprehend-able sermon to the body. Well, I totally lost track of the sermon after the second outburst and just resigned to "being there" as a pew warmer and looked forward to maybe ending the visit with some good fellowship and maybe a few questions answered. At the end though, everyone just mobbed forward in one huge ball (seriously) of hugging arms not even knowing who they were hugging or kissing and knocking over chairs and almost other people. It was something like I would picture as the beginning of an orgie. It was absolutely chaotic!!!! I just left that place totally disillusioned by what I had experienced inside in contrast with what I had read outside the church.

Later I discovered that there is actually a denomination of Christianity in which such behavior is normal and that the babbling is what they call speaking in tongues. Maybe for them but NOT for me, ever! Such interruptions and destruction of comprehension of a sermon which the Pastor may have spent long, hard hours preparing for his flock should never be allowed. Never!!! There was not one offering of what all of that meaningless babbling was supposed to mean. It was just gibberish. Vainly glorifying themselves is all it amounted to as far as I was concerned. "Look at me aren't I great? I can get away with destroying the Pastor's sermon with shouting crazy words no one understands or explains and no one stops me."

But there is something about the excitement and jazz of that overall experience which somehow attracts people. The massing forward in a chaotic mob of senseless and aimless hugging and the ones jumping up and acting crazy in the middle of the sermon. My wife's experience as a child in such a church scared her to death as they were actually wildly throwing church Hymnals (irreverent and expensive and dangerous) through the air across the church and she almost got hit. Some, no a LOT, of people like such disorder and chaos. I found out later that that talking in tongues in church without it being interpreted is taboo/against God's Word yet it was allowed three times. Some people seem to be drawn to such emotional chaos and experiential, emotionally amazing things though that, that church allowed it and actually grew exponentially in the subsequent years. Unbelievable. They had to move to the outskirts of Lansing, MI to build a bldg large enough to hold all of them. To each their own, I guess. Ro 14 allows for such differentiation in the way one worships the Lord, as long as they do it to the glory and honor of the Lord, and not themselves. But seeking self-glorification is a sin.

Right. Speaking in tongues is better suited for the prayer closet. Zac Poonen explains it very well both in teaching and by first-hand experience:

Zac Poonen - How Do You Pray in the Spirit?

Fake Tongues vs Tongues Of Fire - Bro. Zac Poonen

(Clip) Testimony of Being Filled with the Holy Spirit by Zac Poonen