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Featured Seeking the truth: seeking an encounter with God and receiving the silent treatment

Discussion in 'Requests for Christian Advice' started by TruthSeek3r, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No that's not what I meant. If you believe in Jesus than you are sealed with the Holy Spirit already. Problem is you seem to be attaching a certain feeling or experience with this when that's not always the case
     
  2. TruthSeek3r

    TruthSeek3r Member

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    But the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a second experience. It's not the same as conversion. Do you agree with this?
     
  3. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nope. Bible says if you believe that makes you born again
     
  4. Evry'soul

    Evry'soul New Member

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    Hello truthseek3r
    May I suggest that you have already encountered the full triune God? You see.. the 3 are one - and your conversion is not a step by step process, but instead a fully vested calling. The pursuance of God is impossible without being fully integrated with the HS, and the forgiveness of Christ. God is already present.
     
  5. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    Truthseek3r for each of us.. there has to come a time when we just believe or don't. Its wise to ask..but if we follow someone.. we only get what they personally believe. Read the post here. Clear all of it can not be true. Luke 11:13 did you ask the Father for the Holy Spirit? He said this not me.

    Now if this helps the 12 after Jesus went up. Were all saved and by all accounts already had the holy spirit right? They could have just walked away and all would be saved. Yet something would still be missing. Jesus said "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" Yeah.. did exactly what He said.. The Father will give the holy Spirit to them that ask. And He "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth"

    I am sorry. Well for me I would be more confused then ever. The truth I can give you is this.. DON'T believe me. :) JESUS is real. I give you this.. WHERE do you think that desire came from? YEAH your Father! And we walk by faith. Not by how we feel hear or see. If HE said it.. then just believe. One thing I never do.. seek after a gift. Oh I pray about it.. but I don't seek after it. See its as HE leads as HE moves. He uses us. Let HIM lead and guide. And I never seek after experiences. YES they are wonderful. But.. Hes not going to do the same thing in your life. Its something He wants between you and Him.

    So.. me.. I would repent every time before so I know there is nothing between me and Him. And I find what HE said in HIS word and I remind Him what He said. For if HE said it.. KNOW He will do it. That desire you have is from HIM! And the enemy has already tried to steal it. You keep praying.. KNOW HE HEARS YOU! And you keep waiting on Him.. KNOWING He IS doing it.. you praise Him when you don't feel like it.. for the JOY of the lord is YOUR strength. Its HIS joy. Put on HIS armor.

    And He always uses peace never fear worry doubt. So.. keep waiting on Him..knowing what He started He will answer. Don't give Him a time limit. For me.. I think of all the wonders He has done in my life and.. man all I can see is.. it was blind faith. And I just read what the bible said.. and I believed it. When I pray.. I know He hears me and always answers. I always make sure it goes in line with HIS word. If I doubt? I won't get anything from Him.. that is whats also written. KNOW HE HEARS YOU! He started this. Don't stop

    Just make sure its all written in HIS word. DON'T go by what I say.. you search you look it up. All these questions you have.. ask HIM! KNOW HE HEARS YOU! And will answer.. ask for the holy spirit. Luke 11 13 <--is that written? Just do what HE said.. not what anyone else says. Walk by faith
     
  6. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Being filled is for today... and it FEELS, is like someone touching you in the arm you know someone touched you in the arm and you feel it, the same with HS, he fills you inside and you can perceive him.
     
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  7. TruthSeek3r

    TruthSeek3r Member

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    I think you are wrong, (1) receiving the Holy Spirit and (2) being baptized in the Holy Spirit (power for witnessing) are 2 different experiences according to the Scriptures. Let me show you why:

    In John 20:19-23 we read:

    19Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

    This means the apostles received the Holy Spirit when Jesus was still on Earth after his resurrection.

    But then in Acts 1:4-9 we read:

    4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. 9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

    And in Acts 2:1-5 we read:

    1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

    So here we clearly see that the apostles received the Holy Spirit from Jesus (experience 1) but later on in Pentecost they were filled with the Holy Spirit (experience 2). So they are 2 separate experiences. And the latter is clearly a supernatural and powerful experience.

    For additional evidence, take a look at this example:

    Acts 19:1-7
    1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

    In this example we see born-again believers who repented and were baptized in water, but who had not been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet. And when they did by Paul laying hands upon them, they had a supernatural experience (they spoke in tongues and prophesied). So we clearly see again that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is supernatural and is an experience that can happen after salvation (a second experience).

    Here another example. Acts 4:29-32:
    29And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. 32And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

    So we see servants (born-again Christians) being filled with the Holy Spirit, the place was shaken, and they spoke the word of God with boldness as a result. So clearly it was a supernatural experience that happened after conversion (they were all saved already, but they were filled with the Holy Spirit as a second experience).

    We also see the apostle Paul encouraging the seeking of this fullness:

    Ephesians 5:18-20
    18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

    In fact, in the book of Acts we see another example of how important the fullness of the Holy Spirit was regarded by the apostles:

    Acts 6:1-4:
    1And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration. 2Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. 3Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. 4But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. 5And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: 6Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

    If every Christian is filled with the Holy Spirit by default, then it doesn't make sense to look for someone filled with the Holy Spirit or to encourage Christians to be filled with the Holy Spirit. The only reason why the apostles would stress so much the importance of being filled with Holy Spirit is because it is a second experience that every born-again Christian should seek after salvation (and therefore it is not the case that every Christian enjoys it "by default").

    In short: being filled with the Holy Spirit is utterly important according to the early church, it's strongly encouraged by the apostle Paul, there are many examples in the book of Acts that the experience of being filled / baptized with the Holy Spirit is supernatural and that it happens after conversion as a second experience (e.g. the apostles in Pentecost and many other examples), there might be manifestations of spiritual gifts (e.g. tongues, prophesying) or supernatural manifestations in the environment (the building shaking, etc.) but a common manifestation is a supernatural empowerment to be witness of Jesus Christ and preach the gospel with boldness.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  8. Chris35

    Chris35 Member

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    It was second experience for me..

    Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    It was done in that order, i dont know if you have been baptized yet or not, however God is not mocked. I dont believe it will work, if you dont believe. Eg. I dont believe in Jesus, but i will get baptized in order to get the holy spirit to prove to myself Jesus is real.


    So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    If your having problems believing, it might be better to pray for faith, and for him to open your eyes. Spend time in his word, and keep praying for understanding.

    As for the holy spirit, i received it after, from a pentacostal preacher, suggest seeking out a pentacostal church, or keep looking for a church that deals with gifts of the holy spirit.
     
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  9. Silly Uncle Wayne

    Silly Uncle Wayne Well-Known Member

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    What about the testimonies in the Bible: "Then He said, “Go out, and stand on the mountain before the Lord.” And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice." 1 Kings 19.

    God is in the business of relationships and relating will be different for each person. The mere fact that you crave the astonishing, mind-blowing, powerful, supernatural is a fairly good indication that these are more important to you than a relationship with God. I've had those kinds of experiences, but they are inconsequential in comparison with the risen Lord Jesus.
     
  10. Bob Crowley

    Bob Crowley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    TruthSeekr3 - Response "That's true of a lot of testimonies in the list, but not all. Some people have had powerful testimonies even though they were not involved in the occult or similar stuff:".

    I've had my own experiences, but I find that living as a Christian has more effect than just having "experiences" of God. The fruit of the Spirit is not supernatural experiences, but "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." Develop those things, and you'll start to leave a legacy worth following.

    I can tell you that in every case when I had what I regard as a bonafide experience of God or an angel, it always took me by surprise. Nor was I asking for such an experience. They just came, when and where God decided to make a move.

    TruthSeekr3 - Response "Nope. My goal is to know first hand the truth, and to live the rest of my life according to the truth.".

    You already have the truth, namely Christ crucified. Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again. He sent the Holy Spirit, and He expects us to develop the fruits of the spirit as I said before. If He decides to make Himself known to you in some more direct fashion, that's up to Him. He'll choose the time and place, and you might be waiting for a while. Moses was stuck in the backside of the desert for 40 years, to all intents and purposes a washed-up has been. But God hadn't finished - Moses had to WAIT, and wait, and wait...

    TruthSeekr3 - Response "Why?"

    For a couple of reasons - God's more interested in developing your character than in giving you supernatural experiences. Secondly if you keep going like this, seeking some sort of supernatural conviction above all else, you could be setting yourself up for demonic counterfeits, and believe me, they can be convincing. All they'll do is turn you away from God, possibly forever, as they'll set you up for one big disappointment, which could destroy your faith.

    TruthSeekr3 Response "So are you saying the apostles and disciples in the upper room were manipulating God?"

    The disciples had been given a specific command by Jesus Himself, which was for them and them only, following His resurrection and prior to His ascension, namely Luke 24:49 NIV "I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."

    Pentecost was a unique event, since it signaled the beginning of the entire Church, and every other bonafide experience of the Holy Spirit since then has been a pale imitation of that. Sure there are outstanding cases such as that experienced by Blaise Pascal, but he was a man who had devoted his entire life to serving God and other people.

    While I admit that Covid 19 makes practical ministry somewhat difficult at the moment, I think you need to get into some sort of consistent service to others, rather than trying to have an exhilarating experience of the Spirit. Once again, God's in charge, and He will decide if and when you'll have some sort of supernatural experience. You'll only be wasting your time to convince Him otherwise.

    I also think you that if you keep going in this fashion, you could be setting yourself up for a demonic illusion, which could destroy your faith.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  11. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    Your post has a strange feel about it. First of all I checked through your list and many or most of your selection links are it seems links about the dark side. I have to ask myself the question why? And just what in a sense are you demanding of the Lord? It seems you're trying to pressure the Lord to give you an experiicne of the decenring of spirits which is a revelaton through vision form. In other words you're wanting to see the arms, and face and body of spiritual beings. I don't see anywhere in scritpure where God promises you that. I had a freinds many years ago who wanting to see an angel. They prayed for this and when God didn't grant the request they got offened at him. Well thing you've got to understand is even in the Bible where people received such experiences they may only have had them one or two times in their life a life of say 80 years. And about angels here's the thing. It's not important to see them but what's more important is to see their influence.

    I'm 63 now....been a Christian for about 50 years and in all that time I'd say I saw an angel once. It appeared in my house, gave me a one line message of encouragement and disappeared. One the other hand I"ve seen the effects of angels with me all through my life. I recall once driving my car out and about and pulling in my driveway on a certain day as I turned off the car I hear a clunk! I look under the car and my tire rod had fallen off. God's angels protected me until I got home.

    Another time my family and I were way out in the country for a drive. We got a flat tire and discovered I didn't have my jack. I walked a mere few hundred yards looked over and saw two police cars. I asked them if they had a jack and they said sure and came back with me to the car and guess what...THEY actually changed my tire!

    I was wearing a suit and tie and they said don't worry about it...we'll do it. They said to me, "You must have somebody looking out for you." One said. "My friend here is a cop of the region beside us....and I'm from here and we both agreed to meet out in the country on this boarder line road.....and we NEVER do that. And here you are in need of help."

    Well...God sent his angels to set that up. I can tell you example after example of other things too but you know what.....I never asked to see into the spirit but rather just lived a life of praise and worship to God and well....God does things for you and you KNOW that you know that it's God.

    It seems to me you need to have your focus on relationship, praise and worship of God and seeking to do his will....AND.....you'll find that God will do and respond certain ways BUT you must allow him to be God and decide just how that will be. It may never be that you EVER see spirits and that's not important anyway. I"ll close by saying this.....if God opened up to you the spirit realm where you could actually see into it without explaining what I mean you might actually wish he didn't.
     
  12. DebbieJ

    DebbieJ Active Member

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    All true Christians have the Holy Spirit for their redemption and immortality. However, not all have gifts of the apostles and prophets. Can all heal? Can all teach? Can all speak in tongues? How about you? What do you have?

    The Lord will choose whom he will give gifts to. It's not the will of the believer, but the will of the Lord.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
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  13. Monksailor

    Monksailor Adopted child of God. Supporter

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    I deeply apologize for the delayed response but I have and am going to be very busy but I will eventually answer you on these, some time. I have a very good sense of how I am going to answer it just needs to be researched more and organized into a more orderly, concise, comprehensive and cohesive format and that takes time; usually hours for me. I could just blurb out what every feels right to vent as my conclusive thought(s) but invariably I get so many questions, accusations, critiques and such that I have learned I need to spend much, much more time than that before I present my thoughts. One forgets, I think, all of the steps of progression towards their present stance and when they share the present position to one at an earlier stage there is a lot of misunderstanding and also, there are so many different understandings/ denominations of Scripture in the church, at large, one has to be so exhaustive in explanations and can only do their best.

    Parts and pieces of my testimony are here. The whole of it is just too timely, painful, and depressing to tell. Yes, I know I am not there any more and never will be but in telling it one cannot stop from re-experiencing the feelings associated with those cold, dark, lonely, and painful times. Let it suffice to say, "I once was lost (and a wretched fool) but now am found, was blind (in total darkness), but now I see."
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  14. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wow! What a list! I am impressed with your research. Never thought about encounter myself, I am just pleased that He is with me daily through His Holy Spirit as a small still voice.In my opinion, the only encounter of verifiable truth is when there is a change through repentance. Be blessed and stay healthy!
     
  15. Hawkins

    Hawkins Member Supporter

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    By the covenant between God and men, you need faith to be saved instead of an encounter. Early Jews all know whoever encountered God needs to die, unless you are the few who are chosen to be God's eyewitnesses.
     
  16. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God can be and is encountered evertime you read the Bible God is speaking to you.

    If you are a Christian you have a personal testimony.
    This does not have to involve miracles, visitations of angels, choirs singing etc etc it is how you became a Christian . A story of how you submitted to Jess as Saviour and Lord.

    If you are a Christian that happened when you became a Christian. You may experience subsequent fillings and blessings depending on your denominations charismatic tendancy.
     
  17. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    @TruthSeek3r

    What about that time Jesus sent his apostles out to preach and heal the world? This was long before Acts. How could they have accomplished this task if they were not equipped with the HS for witnessing?
     
  18. TruthSeek3r

    TruthSeek3r Member

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    But we still have the responsibility to seek the best gifts in a proactive manner:

    1 Corinthians 12:28-31
    28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

    1 Corinthians 14:1-5
    1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

    And Jesus himself told us to proactively seek the Holy Spirit:
    Luke 11:5-13
    5And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves; 6For a friend of mine in his journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him? 7And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee. 8I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth. 9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

    So Paul is encouraging born-again believers to seek the best gifts, and Jesus himself is saying that God's children (born-again believers) should ask for the Holy Spirit and the Father will give it to them. If born-again believers already have the Holy Spirit, then why would Jesus tell us to ask for the Holy Spirit? Because he's talking about the fullness / the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

    The apostle Paul also encourages us to seek the fullness of the Holy Spirit:
    Ephesians 5:18-20
    18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  19. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    There are 2 spirits, ones from Satan/man, the other is of the trinity through Christ our only saviour. Seek Christ, not man.

    Feed upon the milk of the word and the meat of the word will follow. Have patience with the Lord and he'll bless you
     
  20. TruthSeek3r

    TruthSeek3r Member

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    Jesus gave them authority to do that:
    Luke 9:1-6
    1Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. 2And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. 3And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece. 4And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart. 5And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them. 6And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

    But this is a promise for all who believe, not just for the apostles:
    Mark 16:15-20
    15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
     
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