Seeking help

[blossom15]

I am seeking help for my situation but am unsure about posting all details on open forum. Basically I came back to relationship with God, started attending a church but have experienced some difficulties. I kept seeing a couple of elders for chats and prayer here and there.
My question is, should any outside help I seek always be run by the elders? I mean in terms of seekng prayer ministry in particular.

 

[Tolworth John]

should any outside help I seek always be run by the elders? I mean in terms of seekng prayer ministry in particular.

You are not chained to your church or to the elders.
If someone else in the church who you trust is willing to talk and pray with you, then do so.
Equally if someone in another Church is able to pray with you, then ask them to do so.

Many people post request for prayers here and get 'Christians' from every branch of Christianity praying for them.
In fact those your elders would look at very strangly are some of the most reliable in praying for other Christians.

If it will help use the prayer site here and post a request.

 

[blossom15]

Hello, thanks for replying. A reason I asked is because the bible says to submit to one another in love and obey your elders.

Some years ago though, I was discipled in a way which may be called heavy shepherding. I also read a book called under cover by John bevere. I don't think this had a positive effect, and if anyone knows of better book on the issue of submission would be grateful to know.

I hear what you are saying, but Im still feeling cautious.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Thank you for asking. I fell away for a long time, myself. Then events in my life, led me back to a more intimate relationship with the Lord, going to church, and a prayer life. Having a prayer life, means that you open up to the Lord. Talk to him, that is what prayers are. I try to read the Bible an hour a day. That is his written Word. So a lot of "responses", are actually already in there. That's why it helps to read the Bible often. I have found his Word to be most helpful as it is full of truth and the tools to help you discern where to turn and how to identify people that are trustworthy. Do things to help you stay connected to God. Others are for support and guidance. They are brothers and sisters in Christ, nothing more. We are all fellow servants of the Lord.

When it comes to "heavy shepherding", read this link
What is heavy shepherding?
It explains in great detail. A lot of questions you might have.
Maybe you feel scared, or unsure, because the Holy Spirit is telling you that something is wrong. First and foremost, Focus on God and let your trust be in him. Open your heart and your mind to the Lord in all your ways. Don't allow people to conform you into a particular way of thinking, because your relationship with the Lord is truly between you and him. I myself have had some pretty off the wall views at times, and consider myself to be rather "outside the box". But I also enjoy a relationship with the Lord, and peace with him, and strength with him, that I rarely see in other believers. That is because I talk to the Lord, and he with me. Prayer is important. It is personal. Again, that link above may help a lot. Actually taught me a few things looking it up. For that I am grateful for your question. I shall pray for you. May the Lord put his hedge of protection around you. Bless you.

 

[mukk_in]

I am seeking help for my situation but am unsure about posting all details on open forum. Basically I came back to relationship with God, started attending a church but have experienced some difficulties. I kept seeing a couple of elders for chats and prayer here and there.
My question is, should any outside help I seek always be run by the elders? I mean in terms of seekng prayer ministry in particular.

Not always. Your peers may sometimes relate to you better and be more beneficial. God bless .

 

[rockytopva]

I am a child of Pentecostal revival. When the revivals began to dissipate away I began to study why and began to believe that there are seven church movements and the one that I had experienced, with roots in the John Wesley revival, was beginning to come to an end. The seven churches as I believe...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

I was spiritually distressed over the materialistic time in which I was living. One day I went to see my mother whose church was in revival. I overheard two ladies say that in the last days, "The people were going to have to cut their own paths."

That which I overheard was the best advice I have ever got, even though it was not directly spoken to me. If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

In this day and time we need to discern people by what is in their heart and mind. The old Wesleyan's would not let you claim religion if the sweet spirit of Christ did not come shinning through. They would tell you that you do not have it yet come back tomorrow night if they did not sense a spirituality in the experience.

There are many elders who may have lost the original spiritual experience and may have to re seek it.

 

[Tolworth John]

Hello, thanks for replying. A reason I asked is because the bible says to submit to one another in love and obey your elders.

Some years ago though, I was discipled in a way which may be called heavy shepherding. I also read a book called under cover by John bevere. I don't think this had a positive effect, and if anyone knows of better book on the issue of submission would be grateful to know.

I hear what you are saying, but Im still feeling cautious.

Yes you are to obey in the same way you obey the 10C, the government etc etc.
Your elders are but men and fallen sinfull men at that.
They do not have all Gods wisedom.

There is no need for submission to them, in fact if that is what they are asking for leave that church.

You are a Child of God, a co heir with Christ, a member of a royal pristhood and are loved by God.

You do not need a church elder to tell you what to do, where to live, what type of cloths to wear or what food to eat.

Their role is too encourage you to grow in your love and knowledgeof God.

If they are not doing this and will not change their abusive behaviour. Leave.

 

[rockytopva]

I would add... A church is run by a pastor, deacons, and elders. If they are Godly men, then yes, follow them as they follow Christ. If there is any mischief that can be sensed, then you must leave.

 

[lastofall]

Your worship is to God in spirit and in Truth; your obedience is to God's Word; your fellow is with God's Son Jesus Christ. As for elders of the Church, they are helps for guiding us toward our worship, and obedience, and fellowship.

 

[paul1149]

A reason I asked is because the bible says to submit to one another in love and obey your elders.

Some years ago though, I was discipled in a way which may be called heavy shepherding. I also read a book called under cover by John bevere.

The Bible does teach mutual submission as may be appropriate, but where it says to obey your leaders (heb 13), 'obey' is in the middle, not active, voice. English doesn't have a middle voice, but it is softer than the active. It doesn't mean you automatically obey the leaders, it means you are open to their leading, and all else being equal, will follow it. But the ultimate decision - and responsibility - for any course of action always resides with you, not them.

The elders have authority within a certain church sphere, but not outside it. They cannot run your life, or control what you do outside their sphere. The shepherding movement did not recognize genuine Biblical boundaries to their authority, as even their leaders eventually admitted. I also would be very careful of Bevere. He writes very powerfully, but gets some big things wrong. I've done a critique on his Bait of Satan.

It is for freedom that Christ set you free, do not be chained again in a yoke of bondage. Gal 5.1
You were bought with a price; do not become bondservants of men. -1Cor 7:23​

You are free in Christ. The elders are there for you and for the church. Submit to their reasonable rule in love, but enjoy your freedom to pursue Christ in the way He leads, which is not limited to any one church. No church or elders are above Christ. You are a member of the universal church as well as the local one, so you can partake of it too. In fact, reading that Bevere book was going beyond the elders, so you're already doing it.

 

[blossom15]

Paul1149, thanks for your reply. Id be very interested in reading your critique if possible. Thanks for writing.

 

[paul1149]

Paul1149, thanks for your reply. Id be very interested in reading your critique if possible. Thanks for writing.

YW. It's a review over at amazon.
Customer Review

I also reviewed Watchan Nee's erroneous Spiritual Authority, which was widely used in the shepherding movement.
Customer Review

 

[blossom15]

Hi paul1149, thanks for replying. However I couldn't get the links to work.

 

[com7fy8]

Yes, Hebrews 13:17 says to obey those who have the rule over us. But I understand this means to obey the ones whom God has approved and God trusts.

So, in case you have elders who are disobeying how the Bible says to rule, you would need to find mature real example leaders and talk with them, and then see who along with them is good to share with. You might check with a truly qualified elder, and see who that elder considers to be trustworthy.

 

[paul1149]

Hi paul1149, thanks for replying. However I couldn't get the links to work.

Sorry, please try again. I've cleaned the links up a bit.

 

[blossom15]

hi Paul1149, thanks - I'm sorry, still having trouble - I wondered if they only worked for your sign in?? Would it be possible to pm the nic you posted under and then I can search for your reviews once I've logged into my Amazon account??? I can't think how else I might be able to view them. Thanks for your patience.

 

[paul1149]

I wondered if they only worked for your sign in?

That's what I suspected, so I stripped all other info off the links. I just tested the first link in two browsers where I am not signed into amazon, and went to the page with no problem. Can you copy the link to a different browser? If not, I'll copy the reviews to an online file.

 

[blossom15]

Hi @paul1149 , I don't know why but it doesn' work. If you'e able to copy them would be great, but no pressure. Perhaps it's because I'm in Europe, can't think of anything else. Thanks again.

 

[paul1149]

Hi @paul1149 , I don't know why but it doesn' work. If you'e able to copy them would be great, but no pressure. Perhaps it's because I'm in Europe, can't think of anything else. Thanks again.

Ok, try this. It's a google docs file.

2 amazon reviews -Bevere, Nee

 

[Kit Sigmon]

Hello, thanks for replying. A reason I asked is because the bible says to submit to one another in love and obey your elders.

Some years ago though, I was discipled in a way which may be called heavy shepherding. I also read a book called under cover by John bevere. I don't think this had a positive effect, and if anyone knows of better book on the issue of submission would be grateful to know.

I hear what you are saying, but Im still feeling cautious.

The best book on submission is the Bible...follow Jesus' example.