Seeking advice. I'm in an odd situation w/2 guys courting me, 1 is a pastor.

[truelove1]

Let me break this down. You have been going with someone for almost two years, and yall are making marriage plains. Now some so-called minister of your church is telling you that he wants you, saw you in his dreams. And the Main Church Pastors and leaders gave permission to the pastor who wants to court you. What are you thinking? Do you really need advice? Well my advice would be get out of that church!

thank you. i actually don't mind people being straight forward with their advice/not holding back but instead saying what's on their minds. the reason i came here is to get honest opinions.

 

[Angelfrog]

Firstly- as you asked at the beginning- I'm married, have been for over 22 years and have been a Christian for 29 years.

Secondly-hon- you are a 26 year old grown woman.

The only 'permission' the pastor needs to seek to court you is YOURS. If we still lived back in the ages when a guy sought permission to court a woman- then he would have to ask permission from her father- or her relatives if the father wasn't alive. NOT a church- what have they got to do with it? How dare any church even think it has the right to give or deny permission over an area of a person's private life.

How dare any guy have the nerve to seek the permission of an organisation and not the person and her family?

Not only is this bizarre and controlling- but you're actually saying that you will give in to blackmail rather than live your own life? Contemplating marrying a guy you don't want to marry because you say they'll cut your funding if you don't obey them, basically, is most definitely a sign that blackmail is being used.

To be honest I'd run a mile from that place.

I'm very confused over why, despite all the things that have been said here- you're STILL claiming that you need to find out if God wants you to marry the pastor. Seriously???

I'm not utterly convinced that you want to be married to the guy you're sort of engaged to. If you were, you would have been making comments showing that you're very glad that people here are pretty backing up your desire to marry the guy who loves and you've pretty much promised to marry- and would be showing that you're pleased that everyone's confirming that this pastor is bad news. Even your family are happier with you marrying your boyfriend!

Instead you seem to be finding excuse after excuse NOT to refuse the pastor. You're either trying to justify and find an 'out' from your boyfriend- or you're so controlled and frightened of a church, that you daren't live like the adult you are and would let yourself be forced into something you say you don't want rather than 'disobey' someone who has no right to make any decision whatsoever on your life. If it's the latter- then, for the love of God- literally- GET OUT OF THERE!

You can't possibly believe that it's God's will- that God would lead a man to approach a girl he doesn't know, who God knows is in a committed relationship and behave in a bizarre abnormal manner to her, manipulate her and use the church as back up to scare her into marriage. You can't possibly believe God would want you to live in fear, being bullied, forced to be stuck with someone who you don't love and don't even really know.
Do you seriously think that the God who loves you as His daughter- who 'knows the plans He has for you- plans to prosper and not harm you- plans to give you a hope and a future' would do this to you?

You keep saying that you're waiting for God to show you His will on who to marry. Hasn't He already done that? Unless you were sure that it was God's will to marry this first guy then you had no business leading him on and making plans for marriage. Frankly- and I'm sorry if it sounds unkind- that's an incredibly cruel thing to do if you weren't certain about marrying him. I'm a bit worried about why you say there are issues about making it public that you're promised to him. Is that something that has a big bearing on your decision now? It sounds a bit odd.

If you got into making plans for marriage with him because you love him and know it was the right thing- then this thread shouldn't even exist. VERY clearly, the moment the pastor made any sort of advance- you should have walked away and told him politely but firmly that you're already spoken for.

Did you say that the first guy knows about the pastor?

Quite frankly , if he does, I'm stunned that he'd meekly sit back and let you give him such proof that you aren't really committed to him without acting or being furious at the pastor. If he does know- then I'm a bit concerned about his lack of involvement in this, too.

What exactly are you expecting God to do to show you if you marry the pastor or not? How do you think He'll speak? Through others? Well, plenty have told you to get away from him quick on here- some whose Christian experience has been longer than you've been alive- and you're still refusing to do so.

I can't help but agree with those who question if you're ready for a relationship at all if you're ready to turn your back on a guy who you wanted to marry for some creep without even putting up a fight against it.

If you love the first guy and want to marry him- you've answered your own question.
If you don't love him enough to ignore some weird pastor and a controlling church for- then let him go. You've had him dangling long enough. Set him free so that he has a chance of finding the one who really does want him.

But whatever else- for pity's sake get yourself out of that cultish controlling place. I know I may sound harsh- but I feel worried for you, hon.

 

[parsley]

I know how hard it can be to hear advice on making drastic changes. You put yourself in that church for a reason, so a lot of their rationale makes sense to you. But I would suggest that you step back for a couple weeks, and take a personal retreat from the church. Clear your head out. Go visit a friend's church, as though you're on a vacation.

Some pastors (people in ministry) go into that work because they love God, but also love to be involved in people's lives. They think they are helping when matchmaking, and promoting total surrender to anything with God's name on it. Some people intrude too far, thinking they'd want that sort of personal support, assuming you would too.

I have had inappropriate experiences with people that I still highly respect for their spiritual efforts, but have learned not to divulge information to them, or connect in a way that they find the need to influence my life. You will feel stronger if you don't have extra voices with obligation, telling you what decisions to make. Yes, listen to a variety of counselors -- but avoid voices of pressure and coercion.

It might not be as extreme a situation as we have imagined, but in being about a major life decision, it becomes extreme. It is very common for people to claim that God told them to marry someone, and the other person does not get the same message. That is all the more reason to step back and think, are they really hearing from God? Are their methods for hearing from God leading them well?

I have been involved in several nondenominational churches, and have seen some strange discernment involved not just in how major decisions are made, but in how pastors are hired. Some have no seminary training at all, no congregational approval, and very little screening -- they just hear the call and jump.

It is good to be obedient to God, but patience and preparation is not always a characteristic in those settings. Many blind leaps of faith. Many times they fell and had to shake the dust off. I am not saying that denominational churches are more accurately following God's will, but the general approach is based on generations of refined methodology.

Nondenoms are founded on a passion to serve God, address a problem they'd seen in another church, reach a new sector of people, or worship with a group of people that saw things a similar way, and wanted to grow together as a church. The pastor has more authority, because they are often the founders and think of the church as their baby.

That can lead to a sense of being above the law -- they don't get reminders from a diocese on sexual harassment, screening people who care for children, dealing with restraining orders, tax code risks, insurance claims, potential lawsuits on compromising private information...HIPPAA violations. Maybe no pastor gets these notices, but pastors need more and more information these days.

Anyway, what I am saying -- there are not many people in this world that are capable of looking out for your best interests, or completely trustworthy. You really need to fight for what you want your life will look like. Otherwise, other people will shape it, and you will become a slave to their random ideas.

Look to scriptures as a solid source of guidance, and pray.

 

[Angelfrog]

I'd echo what Parsley says.

Please don't be intimidated by the whole 'God told me to marry you' attitude. People can be wrong- pastors are just people.- no more immune to mistakes and attributing their own wishful thinking to God's voice than anyone else, (although I still think it's more than just a little faux pas in acting before testing something in his case).

I read in a book by a British Christian author a few years back of how she and her husband had a friend come to stay that they hadn't seen for a while. Over dinner he happily announced that God had told him that he was to come back and marry a particular woman who was a friend of the author. The author and her husband rather awkwardly told him that God couldn't have told him that- because the woman in question had been married for several years already. The visitor refused to believe them- so they actually took him to the church to show him the entry in the records of their wedding. He then became adamant that the woman had made a mistake and gone against God's will. The author goes on to describe how a horrible time followed with the guy upsetting the woman and her husband deeply by harassing them until they could get him to accept that she was happily committed to someone else.

You can see the reason I was reminded of this. The visitor insisted that God had told him to marry the woman. Obviously God had said nothing of the sort. How did they all know that? Because they knew God. God would not, for example, send any person to break up a marriage. He would not advocate a married woman simply walking out on a previously happy marriage just because some guy she barely knew turned up at her door, and announced that God had told him that they were to marry. It's nonsense!

I know you're not already married- but the point I'm making is what I said before- are the claims being made consistent with what you know a loving God would say and do?

 

[parsley]

The visitor insisted that God had told him to marry the woman.

It is a good reminder that we all have to be humble about how well we're hearing from God. In scriptures, there are examples where languages were confused -- the tower of Babel -- where an army was confused into attacking its own members.... We get overconfident. It's so important to be responsible -- not just in listening to God, and using scriptures for guidance -- but also to look at the real impact of our actions on a situation and the people involved.

Picture how a parent wants to give their child some freedom in making decisions, because it will help them make wiser ones later. God watches His children make wise and considerate decisions, and is pleased at the way we come to conclusions that honor Him and care for others.

 

[anglozaxon]

Dreams can be very unreliable as a guide to what someone should be doing, I remember awaking one morning with Ezekiel 57vs 17 ringing in my head, I was sure this was a message from God, I reached out and grabbed my Bible totally prepared to do whatever or go wherever it said I was so sure.... Then I discovered the Ezekiel doesn't go as high as 57.. I was gutted, but it taught me not to rely too much on my own feelings but to seek God through his word.

 

[Avniel]

Dreams can be very unreliable as a guide to what someone should be doing, I remember awaking one morning with Ezekiel 57vs 17 ringing in my head, I was sure this was a message from God, I reached out and grabbed my Bible totally prepared to do whatever or go wherever it said I was so sure.... Then I discovered the Ezekiel doesn't go as high as 57.. I was gutted, but it taught me not to rely too much on my own feelings but to seek God through his word.

But I think you did learn that through a dream.

 

[parsley]

Then I discovered the Ezekiel doesn't go as high as 57.. I was gutted, but it taught me not to rely too much on my own feelings but to seek God through his word.

Lol been there, in the lofty numbers.
At the same time, dreams can be important communication tools. We just need to be careful what we read into them. For instance, the whole book of Ezekiel might have been important to read, and then a separate search for 57 might have led you an important news story (Heinz 57 hiring in town). We make assumptions.

What I have found with being involved on the dream forum here -- prophetic dreams are often springboards. They don't tell the story -- they show you enough to start looking up things on your own, to be alert to risks, to be on guard of someone's character. They are rarely directives "go do this." God does that face to face, like a man, when we ask for his help. Dreams are paintings, snapshots, phrases, scenarios.

 

[truelove1]

I appreciate the advice and insight I've received here, so I've decided to update this thread as things happen in my situation. I realize this post is kinda long but I'm hoping some of you will have time to read it.

I never expected that i would encounter a situation that i would need to choose. It devastates, hurts and disappoints my heart. I prayed hard, delighting myself to God, seeking Him faithfully, serve Him with all my heart, worship and praise Him. I was still in his presence always hoping that God will grant all the prayers. When i fasted a week ago, i really had a good time to be still in His presence. The word repeatedly reminds me to wait patiently the act of God and He will give is direction and Words. I even dreamt about it and sang a song like "standing here in your presence thinking of the good things that you have done, waiting here patiently. The word "waiting here patiently". makes me cry out more. I never complained to God about the things going on. But I let God move. I don't want to follow my hearts desire, but I will follow God's Will. God touched my heart. I said to God, i offer my life to you. Help me. I don't want to rely on my own knowledge and decisions and i'ved been begging Him to walk me along the right path... I shouldn't be in hurry when it comes to decision making. I should wait on God's signal.

One thing the man who's been courting me for two years mentioned was "God is also a practical God, who knows what each of his children want and need in a relationship. He knows the qualities each person needs and which two people are compatible for marriage. God isn't a forceful God, for sure. He's gentle"

then i asked him "Do you think he is not a forceful God...? When His children try to flee away or run away from His calling. What did God usually do?"

to which he replied "when it comes to discipline He chooses to be sometimes, but not about the matter we're discussing, unless of course a christian seeks Him about marrying a non Christian"


People may think my situation is easy. But for me its not easy, that's why i ask God... I can't pretend that I'm okay in front of my friends, love ones and to the church... Deep inside I'm like a worm crawling to survive.. Disrespecting them is not on my mind to do. I respect them a lot because they help a lot with my education.

And i don't want them to feel that I'm disrespectful. I want to be fair. another point is its painful for them if i quickly get married after my graduation, if i don't even get my license as a teacher first. And i reread the covenant, that I should do ministry for 1 to 2 years after graduation.... All scholar student in our church, we signed a covenant before we entered a Seminary School. i prayed a lot about it. Even though I'm not obligated, but in my heart i should give them my respect. My prayers to God that i hope i received blessings from my family and from church.


and yes, i know that when it comes to love life a church should not interfere and decide instead of me but i know how to feel indebted/know the sense of debt of gratitude.


the person who has courted me for two years told me "if you can't get over that feeling, if that feeling to repay your church for something you shouldn't have to repay them for is stronger than your feelings for me, then you could still serve there at the church for a year after you graduate. there wouldn't be a problem."

to which i replied " It wouldn't be a problem if I'm not married because it's good to marry when people around us are happy too..My heart don't feel at peace even though i love the person. I don't want to be selfish also. I want to be fair... I want to have a good relationship, and acceptance from other people... because otherwise I don't feel at ease, at peace and etc. to myself... ".

I know God really called me. And i don't want to run away from His calling. He saved my life for a second time. I offer my life to Him..

but the man who has courted me for two years agrees that i'm to be involved in ministry and i know he has ministry options for me with his family ministry, for example.


i feel like staying in a box, Sometimes i think to choose to be single...


sometimes i tell him i love him and that i am his and other times i become afraid, maybe because of my dream last night (which told me to be patient), which i already explained. the dream came a week after i fasted and it makes me confused.

he told me dreams alone by themselves aren't meant to rely on but i told him "Sometimes dreams are true.. and I know it if it is true..."

i asked him, " Are you at peace to marry me if people around don't feel happy?"

his answer in reference to the church leaders was "yes, of course i am, because i know they have their ownn agenda that they're trying to force upon you and i know it's not right of them." he told me they're good people but misguided on this issue.


he asked me what other concerns i had. he never gave me a reason to fear that he would divorce me but it's a fear i have about marriage in general with anyone. so i told him "What if you will change after marrying me and decide to get a divorce? And you know me i really hate divorce. I never pray to marry a man to divorce me after many years of together..." .

But after his assuring explanation, my fear about that issue with him is only 1/2 percent , which I think i would have at least that much of a fear about that issue with anyone.

but another thing i don't like is the idea that other people might think I married him because of money, if i marry him.

another thing to mention is, in addition to my feelings for him, we both have the same qualities in mind that we want in a spouse.


I just don't like others thinking that i'll marry quickly after my graduation..it's really painful for them too.... so what i'm considering doing is pushing all of the plans he and i have had together off until november or december of 2013 or maybe march or april of 2014 (both dates, november/december and march/april will be after i get my license), and i would just be keeping in touch with him until then instead of being in a committed relationship with him. i realize he has already waited for two years and him waiting another year would be very difficult for him, especially if our communication remains limited like it has been (and it will be) and since our relationship wouldn't be able to be a committed one for another year, but if he can't wait then i guess i should just assume it was never God's will for he and i to marry, right? so i guess i should just let him go if that happens. also, we won't be able to be together until close to a year after we are married.

he told me I shouldn't take my license exam before our plans because the license won't be accepted in the state he lives in anyway. he also reminded me of the plans we've had for a business and other employment opportunities/connections he has if I want them.

I know he really loves me but i'm still confused because i don't want to disrespect and hurt my church leaders. thanks for anymore help and insight.

God bless.

 

[seashale76]

I have that old 80s song in my head right now. You spin me round... Honestly, you don't make much sense to me. I think you're too worried about mess you shouldn't be worried about. I think you care way too much about how people who won't be in your marriage with you will feel if you get married and live your life. Do you honestly think those people would jump to your expectations if you disapproved of their marriage plans? Trust me- they wouldn't.

You've got this guy you're stringing along, and you're [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] footing around and playing games with him. It isn't fair to him or you. I don't think it's about you really wanting to follow God so much as it is about you not wanting to take responsibility for yourself and commit to something. You're afraid of commitment. At this point- no- you SHOULDN'T get married to either of those guys. They deserve better than someone who can't make a decision on her own, who would string them along, and then is constantly waiting for some miraculous sign from heaven to do anything in life. The rest of us don't get miraculous signs to get married. You're just making excuses and blaming it all for waiting on your miraculous sign from God. It's hogwash.

 

[truelove1]

I have that old 80s song in my head right now. You spin me round... Honestly, you don't make much sense to me. I think you're too worried about mess you shouldn't be worried about. I think you care way too much about how people who won't be in your marriage with you will feel if you get married and live your life. Do you honestly think those people would jump to your expectations if you disapproved of their marriage plans? Trust me- they wouldn't.

You've got this guy you're stringing along, and you're [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] footing around and playing games with him. It isn't fair to him or you. I don't think it's about you really wanting to follow God so much as it is about you not wanting to take responsibility for yourself and commit to something. You're afraid of commitment. At this point- no- you SHOULDN'T get married to either of those guys. They deserve better than someone who can't make a decision on her own, who would string them along, and then is constantly waiting for some miraculous sign from heaven to do anything in life. The rest of us don't get miraculous signs to get married. You're just making excuses and blaming it all for waiting on your miraculous sign from God. It's hogwash.

you're entitled to your opinion but i haven't noticed many others giving the same as yours at this point.

 

[Angelfrog]

Ok- if it hasn't been removed by now- ignore the spam troll above (Melinda).

I have to admit that I'm still confused, truelove.

I think some of it is because I don't know how your system works out there. It's very different from how things work here in England, so cultural differences are a tad confusing to me. I've no idea how a license works, as over here a student goes to university, gets their teaching degree and that's it. No such thing as a license and if you hold a teaching degree (or have a teaching post- grad degree) you teach anywhere in the UK. We don't have states and different rules etc all over the country (other than a few minor by-laws for various councils). So to me, if you graduate you go anywhere you jolly well please to teach in the UK. I'm trying not to suggest stupid things, as I don't understand why you could teach in one place and not another and so on. It's my lack of knowledge, so if I say something dumb- that's why!!!

Over here as well, we don't have the problem of churches paying for education then making demands, as students (unless they have very wealthy parents, are well off in their own right, or get a sponsorship from a company) simply have a Government Student Loan to pay for university- and you don't start to pay instalments back until you earn a certain amount of money.

Which is why I'm confused about not being able to be married. Is there some rule about married people not being allowed in your type of ministry that you're expected to enter? Why couldn't you marry and then carry on after graduation, out of curiosity? I'm not saying you should- just that I don't get the reasons you seem to suggest that you can't.

I'm also very concerned about some things you say. Forgive me for being blunt, truelove, but you do seem to have a bit of a problem in standing up for yourself. You seem over eager to please others, even if that means that you sacrifice your wishes or happiness in the process. It can seem like humility and thoughtfulness- but you have to be VERY careful that it doesn't end up making you a bit of a doormat. Don't let being grateful to someone turn into a mindset that you're beholden to them in all sorts of areas of your life.

For example- I completely get that you're very grateful to the church for their financial help. Quite right too- I would be. My church has helped us out with a horrible financial problem in the past- a big bit of help-and I will always be grateful for that. Do I then feel that I need their approval for my life decisions? No- not at all. They would be horrified at the thought. Does that mean I've lost respect for them? Absolutely not!

You speak about being respectful to them- well and good- but why do you seem to imply that making your own decisions, having your own desires and plans and marrying someone YOU want to marry is in any way shape or form disrespectful?

Do you find, truelove, that you tend to have a bit of a confidence problem at all? I wonder if you have rather a need to please people and worry unduly about offending or not being humble/ grateful/ obliging enough?

Sweetheart- wanting to make your own choices is NOT disrespecting your church. Choosing who and when you marry is NOT disrespectful to your church. Letting them call the shots is NOT respect- it's letting yourself be controlled. Yes, be respectful- but you can do that while you firmly make YOUR plans. You are NOT indebted to your church forever for this. It was their decision to help. It sounds like they do this for others too- do they lay down the same rules and regulations and conditions for everyone that they assist?

You may not like this bit- and I don't mean it unkindly- but I really think you're using the patience and respect issue almost as a 'get out of jail free- or at least postpone having to stand up against it' card. Now I don't have the right to say that God didn't speak to you, or even that he did, in your dream. But, and forgive me if I sound harsh, you seem to be holding on to that like a bit of a lifeline- almost as if it gets you off the hook, for now at least. Telling yourself that phew, you can wait, and that not going against the church is you not wanting to upset people and is showing respect is postponing the inevitable, really isn't it? And isn't it so much nicer to make yourself believe that it isn't 'weakness' or you being ungrateful or any of those uncomfortable feelings- but you being a rather nice, humble, thoughtful, considerate good Christian girl? I say this with the deepest respect for your feelings- but I think there may be a little hint of fooling yourself there.

You haven't mentioned the pastor guy - what's the situation with him? If you're still feeling that you're seeking some sign whether or not to marry him- then I'd say that's a BIG warning that you've given yourself a ton of excuses and things to hide behind.

I think, bottom line, you need to let your fiance have a firm answer one way or the other. I do find some of his answers a bit odd- and I honestly have no idea why, to be blunt, he's putting up with this situation. I wonder if there's some aspect you're not telling us, which makes a big part of why things are or are not happening. Of course we don't have the right to pry and it's perfectly reasonable for you not to go into everything- but from a 'reader' point of view it does make things a bit baffling and not quite add up. Please do NOT feel pressured into sharing more than you're happy with, though.

Praying for you, truelove. It must be so confusing.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I understand your point but some might say if the guy who has been courting me for about a couple of years gave up on me over this, he might not have been God's will for me because of him giving up?

Personally I think consequences happen to us from the wrong actions, which God wants us to learn from. I do think we can mess up relationships that God approves of and which would have worked out well for us.

You mentioned godly sacrifice. The first guy has waited for me (put his life on hold) for almost two years, rejected many women because of his love for me, found a way to help me financially for plane fair when we weren't committed, is willing to travel far for me and is willing to later spend his life savings in order for me to be with him. Those are some of the sacrifices he has made and he is also a devoted Christian. Lack of sacrifice isn't a problem on his part. I'm simply trying to figure out God's will. I want to do whatever God's will is, even if it means choosing not the man I love but instead this pastor if that is God's will. I'm waiting to see and then decide what God's will is. So maybe I should continue allowing this pastor to get to know and court me.

Everyone has different thoughts on this. Personally I think that God does not always have one destined person for each of us and does not control things this way. Sometimes there is a predestined person, but I think much of it is up to us.

 

[hosannah]

I have to admit I did not take the time to read all 11 pages of this post so if the answer I am going to give has been given before forgive me but here is my take.

It's understandable getting other peoples take and advice to help you out. But have you sat down and asked GOD what he thinks of the situation and what His Will is for your life?

Sit down night after night with an open heart, he already knows what you're going to ask so you don't even need to ask it. Just pray that His Will, to be done in your life, and meditate in silence with an open heart and mind waiting to hear the answer from the holy spirit.

This is called "waiting upon the Lord"

I would not make a decision without doing so. those people that have brushed this guy off as weird, creepy, bizarre, stalker etc, could be correct, it does seem strange. However, no one knows God's Will or how he works. God very well may have put into his mind the dream and thoughts of marrying you.

Then again, he might just be infatuated. None of us here really know. So go to your room, lock the door, and spend some 1 v 1 time with Jesus and ask him. It may not come tonight, or tomorrow or next week. But He will reveal His Will to you assuredly if you seek it.

 

[hosannah]

Everyone has different thoughts on this. Personally I think that God does not always have one destined person for each of us and does not control things this way. Sometimes there is a predestined person, but I think much of it is up to us.[/quote]


God knew every person he created 10 billion years before the first molecule of the universe was ever created before the big bang.

He knew who you would marry, regardless of who it eventually winds up being. So, he therefore did preknow and predestinate you to marry that person.

It's the same with who God chooses to save in his mercy. He Pre-elected some to whom he would save in his mercy, and some he would not. It says right in the bible this is true about pre destination in the new testament. (though many refuse to accept this idea based on a loving God) however, knowing before hand who would be saved, and therefore predestinating them, doesn't make him unloving. It makes him all knowing. there is a difference. those who reject him were and would continue doing so anyway.

To those that would say he is unjust for choosing to save 1 and not another. Would you say that if you chose to give money to one beggar on the street and not another if one beggar asks you personally for it and another beggar is just walking around but does not ask you even though you can tell he needs the money? that makes you unjust because you did not give money to every beggar on the street? No, it made you merciful in the eyes of the person you gave money to, and that person will always (theoretically) appreciate what you.
did for them. They were willing to approach you and ask you for something, and you mercifully responded by giving.

It's the same with God, we beg salvation of him and he gives it. Those beggars that will not ask him directly (for we are all beggars in this world in need of salvation) will not receive it

 

[truelove1]

I have to admit I did not take the time to read all 11 pages of this post so if the answer I am going to give has been given before forgive me but here is my take.

It's understandable getting other peoples take and advice to help you out. But have you sat down and asked GOD what he thinks of the situation and what His Will is for your life?

Sit down night after night with an open heart, he already knows what you're going to ask so you don't even need to ask it. Just pray that His Will, to be done in your life, and meditate in silence with an open heart and mind waiting to hear the answer from the holy spirit.

This is called "waiting upon the Lord"

I would not make a decision without doing so. those people that have brushed this guy off as weird, creepy, bizarre, stalker etc, could be correct, it does seem strange. However, no one knows God's Will or how he works. God very well may have put into his mind the dream and thoughts of marrying you.

Then again, he might just be infatuated. None of us here really know. So go to your room, lock the door, and spend some 1 v 1 time with Jesus and ask him. It may not come tonight, or tomorrow or next week. But He will reveal His Will to you assuredly if you seek it.

like others have suggested, it seems a common thing for christian guys to become infatuated with women and then tell them God gave them dreams about them. if i were to even consider that claim from someone as a factor in deciding who to be courted by, i would be resting my future on the words/motives of the person and i don't see how that could be wise at all. i think someone already mentioned that trickery is deceitful.

 

[truelove1]

Everyone has different thoughts on this. Personally I think that God does not always have one destined person for each of us and does not control things this way. Sometimes there is a predestined person, but I think much of it is up to us.

God knew every person he created 10 billion years before the first molecule of the universe was ever created before the big bang.

He knew who you would marry, regardless of who it eventually winds up being. So, he therefore did preknow and predestinate you to marry that person.

It's the same with who God chooses to save in his mercy. He Pre-elected some to whom he would save in his mercy, and some he would not. It says right in the bible this is true about pre destination in the new testament. (though many refuse to accept this idea based on a loving God) however, knowing before hand who would be saved, and therefore predestinating them, doesn't make him unloving. It makes him all knowing. there is a difference. those who reject him were and would continue doing so anyway.

To those that would say he is unjust for choosing to save 1 and not another. Would you say that if you chose to give money to one beggar on the street and not another if one beggar asks you personally for it and another beggar is just walking around but does not ask you even though you can tell he needs the money? that makes you unjust because you did not give money to every beggar on the street? No, it made you merciful in the eyes of the person you gave money to, and that person will always (theoretically) appreciate what you.
did for them. They were willing to approach you and ask you for something, and you mercifully responded by giving.

It's the same with God, we beg salvation of him and he gives it. Those beggars that will not ask him directly (for we are all beggars in this world in need of salvation) will not receive it [/QUOTE]

i don't see how calvinism relates to marriage. anyway, the calvinist view, among other popular views within christianity, is that we are not able to "beg" God for salvation without action first from Him in drawing us. But that is for a different thread, ok?

 

[truelove1]

Ok- if it hasn't been removed by now- ignore the spam troll above (Melinda).

I have to admit that I'm still confused, truelove.

I think some of it is because I don't know how your system works out there. It's very different from how things work here in England, so cultural differences are a tad confusing to me. I've no idea how a license works, as over here a student goes to university, gets their teaching degree and that's it. No such thing as a license and if you hold a teaching degree (or have a teaching post- grad degree) you teach anywhere in the UK. We don't have states and different rules etc all over the country (other than a few minor by-laws for various councils). So to me, if you graduate you go anywhere you jolly well please to teach in the UK. I'm trying not to suggest stupid things, as I don't understand why you could teach in one place and not another and so on. It's my lack of knowledge, so if I say something dumb- that's why!!!

Over here as well, we don't have the problem of churches paying for education then making demands, as students (unless they have very wealthy parents, are well off in their own right, or get a sponsorship from a company) simply have a Government Student Loan to pay for university- and you don't start to pay instalments back until you earn a certain amount of money.

Which is why I'm confused about not being able to be married. Is there some rule about married people not being allowed in your type of ministry that you're expected to enter? Why couldn't you marry and then carry on after graduation, out of curiosity? I'm not saying you should- just that I don't get the reasons you seem to suggest that you can't.

I'm also very concerned about some things you say. Forgive me for being blunt, truelove, but you do seem to have a bit of a problem in standing up for yourself. You seem over eager to please others, even if that means that you sacrifice your wishes or happiness in the process. It can seem like humility and thoughtfulness- but you have to be VERY careful that it doesn't end up making you a bit of a doormat. Don't let being grateful to someone turn into a mindset that you're beholden to them in all sorts of areas of your life.

For example- I completely get that you're very grateful to the church for their financial help. Quite right too- I would be. My church has helped us out with a horrible financial problem in the past- a big bit of help-and I will always be grateful for that. Do I then feel that I need their approval for my life decisions? No- not at all. They would be horrified at the thought. Does that mean I've lost respect for them? Absolutely not!

You speak about being respectful to them- well and good- but why do you seem to imply that making your own decisions, having your own desires and plans and marrying someone YOU want to marry is in any way shape or form disrespectful?

Do you find, truelove, that you tend to have a bit of a confidence problem at all? I wonder if you have rather a need to please people and worry unduly about offending or not being humble/ grateful/ obliging enough?

Sweetheart- wanting to make your own choices is NOT disrespecting your church. Choosing who and when you marry is NOT disrespectful to your church. Letting them call the shots is NOT respect- it's letting yourself be controlled. Yes, be respectful- but you can do that while you firmly make YOUR plans. You are NOT indebted to your church forever for this. It was their decision to help. It sounds like they do this for others too- do they lay down the same rules and regulations and conditions for everyone that they assist?

You may not like this bit- and I don't mean it unkindly- but I really think you're using the patience and respect issue almost as a 'get out of jail free- or at least postpone having to stand up against it' card. Now I don't have the right to say that God didn't speak to you, or even that he did, in your dream. But, and forgive me if I sound harsh, you seem to be holding on to that like a bit of a lifeline- almost as if it gets you off the hook, for now at least. Telling yourself that phew, you can wait, and that not going against the church is you not wanting to upset people and is showing respect is postponing the inevitable, really isn't it? And isn't it so much nicer to make yourself believe that it isn't 'weakness' or you being ungrateful or any of those uncomfortable feelings- but you being a rather nice, humble, thoughtful, considerate good Christian girl? I say this with the deepest respect for your feelings- but I think there may be a little hint of fooling yourself there.

You haven't mentioned the pastor guy - what's the situation with him? If you're still feeling that you're seeking some sign whether or not to marry him- then I'd say that's a BIG warning that you've given yourself a ton of excuses and things to hide behind.

I think, bottom line, you need to let your fiance have a firm answer one way or the other. I do find some of his answers a bit odd- and I honestly have no idea why, to be blunt, he's putting up with this situation. I wonder if there's some aspect you're not telling us, which makes a big part of why things are or are not happening. Of course we don't have the right to pry and it's perfectly reasonable for you not to go into everything- but from a 'reader' point of view it does make things a bit baffling and not quite add up. Please do NOT feel pressured into sharing more than you're happy with, though.

Praying for you, truelove. It must be so confusing.

I appreciate your advice and the time you took to type it. At this point I'm not sure whether my hesitancy is more about the dream/the belief that God wants me to wait significantly longer to marry or if it's more about my concern what the church leaders might think if I marry this special someone of mine right after college.

To answer your question, that pastor recently complimented me on some of my FB pics and tagged a few of them onto his profile but he and I aren't communicating now.

I have continued to tell the man I'm involved with that I love him and appreciate him waiting longer to be with me. Some people might think I'm testing his love for me by extended the the wait for our plans. I'm not sure, all i can say is I have the other two reasons so much on my mind right now.

You mentioned I might be holding some information back, but I don't think there is anything else important to mention.

My mind is confused on this issue but my heart isn't, so to speak. Thanks again.

 

[truelove1]

I have to admit I did not take the time to read all 11 pages of this post so if the answer I am going to give has been given before forgive me but here is my take.

It's understandable getting other peoples take and advice to help you out. But have you sat down and asked GOD what he thinks of the situation and what His Will is for your life?

Sit down night after night with an open heart, he already knows what you're going to ask so you don't even need to ask it. Just pray that His Will, to be done in your life, and meditate in silence with an open heart and mind waiting to hear the answer from the holy spirit.

This is called "waiting upon the Lord"

I would not make a decision without doing so. those people that have brushed this guy off as weird, creepy, bizarre, stalker etc, could be correct, it does seem strange. However, no one knows God's Will or how he works. God very well may have put into his mind the dream and thoughts of marrying you.

Then again, he might just be infatuated. None of us here really know. So go to your room, lock the door, and spend some 1 v 1 time with Jesus and ask him. It may not come tonight, or tomorrow or next week. But He will reveal His Will to you assuredly if you seek it.

He didn't know me and hadn't ever communicated with me, 'saw' me laying on a couch and then immediately approached me in the way I described, "I feel something in my heart". Knowing someone comes first, then a relationship, of course.

 

[truelove1]

Thank you all for the advice.