Secret vaccinations

[timothyu]

Brave people. We owe them thanks.

There are doctors all over the world and not everyone is politically motivated.

 

[The Barbarian]

There are doctors all over the world and not everyone is politically motivated.

It's a rare doctor indeed who puts political motivations about good medical care. As you see, many of them are taking threats and abuse from political extremists for their dedication to fighting the pandemic.

 

[com7fy8]

Fortunately, vaccination facilities are finding ways to protect the identities of those who realize the vaccine can save their lives, but fear retaliation from families or associates. Who would have thought America would have come to this?

When revoluntaries first rebelled against the British, they did a thing or two to their neighbors who did not want a revolution. They did not honor each citizen to have one's own democratic right to choose. And then, I am told, the Tories were run out of the country, afterward, with no choice. It was not democratic, how some number of people were treated.

We still have people who can become violent against others who are not politically like they are. There always are people like this, in any country.

Some people in Missouri are getting vaccinated in secret to avoid backlash from loved ones, doctor says - CNN

I personally know someone who is reporting that a spouse is browbeating the person not to get a vaccine. This is what cruel and control seeking people do. So, it has nothing really to do with politics, perhaps, but it has to do with inventing an excuse which matches with how someone wants to control other people.

Uh…vaccinated people are getting re-infected and are surreptitiously spreading it too. But they’re vaccinated so that somehow makes it a better consequent death for their victims?

I offer > I have been following this, for a while. Even before the Delta variant, there was reporting that vaccinated people could get COVID-19 or be infected but asymptomatic, and therefore could infect other people. However, what I understand is the vaccine could prepare people to fight an infection so it would make them less able to infect others, than if they had not been vaccinated.

From what I understand with my background in science and medicine, this is theoretically possible. Now, the interesting item is to know whether conspirators have cleverly made this up, in this case of COVID-19, or if it really is happening. I, of course, can not prove it, either way . . . not as a personal eyewitness . . . and mind witness . . . of what is going on in every human's head and body

So, I got the shots, and I wear a mask . . . even just to show ones with masks that I care about how they feel.

Really? WHere is this happening? How often is this happening? Share the statistics you have been looking at so I can learn the truth

There are cruel and brutal spouses in the United States. They are called domestic abusers. And ones of these are interfering with their family members getting vaccinated. It has nothing, really, to do with science or politics, really, but with how they are in their character.

If you look at how tyrants were able to rise to power, you might notice how they were able to get enough psychopaths and foolish people to side with them. Adolph Hitler is only one example. Germany was a civilized nation; but Nazis were able to get enough people of nonfunctioning consciences to do what the SS did and what was done to millions of Jews and other people in Nazi concentration camps.

And anywhere else, I offer, there are psychopaths, ready to go . . . in case they somehow get the impression that they can get away with what they would do. Look at how many now already are ok with killing unborn people . . . if they can get the power and get away with it. Look at how ones attacked and killed Native American family members . . . not just warriors . . . not only noncombatants, in order to take land from sovereign Native nations. Enough people were capable of doing that, ignoring it, not stopping it.

they are afraid of what will happen if people find out that they got vaccinated.

There are cruel and brutal people who can abuse those who do not do things their way. Look how Jewish mothers and fathers became able to curse their own children with the shed blood of Jesus > "His blood be on us and on our children" > mothers and fathers cursing their own children with the blood of God's own Son > in Matthew 27:25. This is what humans without Jesus have the basic ability to do, during the time of Jesus, of Nazi Germany, of the COVID-19 thing.

I will only share this, something I could grab easily. I'm sure there's more out there if you get curious.

New US mask guidance prompted by evidence vaccinated can spread Delta

Like I have offered, above, already ones were saying that previous strains of SARS-CoV-2 could infect vaccinated people and then be spread either by vaccinated people sick with COVID-19, or by vaccinated asymptomatic spreaders. I suppose it is more possible that a vaccinated person could be asymptomatic if infected, since the vaccine would prime him or her to fight the virus so it would not cause symptoms . . . though it might still be there to get itself spread.

The vaccine can help to reduce whatever happens > to reduce symptoms, even if a person does get sick, or reduce how able an asymptomatic person is to spread the virus. And, I understand, there are ones who could have gotten very sick, but their vaccine prepared them to fight the virus so they only became asymptomatic. But, then, I am glad to wear a mask, at least when directed to.

So, ones vaccinated can be harder for the virus to use. Their ability to spread can be less than if they had not been vaccinated.

But it sounds like mainstream authorities are saying that the Delta creature has more ability to spread, through whomever it infects. How can one strain be more able to spread, than others? One way already reported reason is if a strain has more of those attachment and cell entry spikes on the surface of each virus. It has more spikes and therefore, I would say, more chances of grabbing onto a cell and getting into a cell.

Let's say you have a wall covered with Velcro. And you have one ball with twenty two-inch-wide circles of Velcro on that ball. Meanwhile you have a Delta model ball with hundreds of two-inch circles of sticky Velcro on it. If you toss each ball against the wall, which ball is most likely to catch itself on the wall? Like this, the Delta strain maybe has more of those spike proteins on it, for getting itself attached to and entered into a cell in a lung. But other earlier SARS-CoV-2 viruses do not have so many spikes, and so they are not so able to infect a person . . . even if they are in a person, I understand.

So, the Delta's danger is not that it is stronger to make you sicker, but that it can spread more easily so more people get sick and die and suffer. It seems the reporting means that any SARS-CoV-2 virus can sicken and kill people, but what makes the difference is if the virus can get into a cell and how the human's body reacts to it, managing it well or overreacting. The thing is that a "stickier" virus will make it in, more often, so there can be more bad stats with one like Delta, because of more cases.

Therefore, it is not about one virus strain being stronger than another, but stickier, and then how well your immune system manages it.

We are seeing immune systems overreacting, plus humans overreacting . . . possibly in trying to help, but also in trying to control people from getting the vaccine . . . while others could be trying to control people to get vaccinated. Some control seeking people are more nasty than others.

 

[timothyu]

It's a rare doctor indeed who puts political motivations about good medical care. As you see, many of them are taking threats and abuse from political extremists for their dedication to fighting the pandemic.

I know and there are many who are financially motivated too. It is best to take a cross section from other countries also in coming to conclusions IMO.

 

[timothyu]

We still have people who can become violent against others who are not politically like they are. There always are people like this, in any country.

Many a beaten member of the counter-culture a half century back will agree with that

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

When revoluntaries first rebelled against the British, they did a thing or two to their neighbors who did not want a revolution. They did not honor each citizen to have one's own democratic right to choose. And then, I am told, the Tories were run out of the country, afterward, with no choice. It was not democratic, how some number of people were treated.

We still have people who can become violent against others who are not politically like they are. There always are people like this, in any country.


I personally know someone who is reporting that a spouse is browbeating the person not to get a vaccine. This is what cruel and control seeking people do. So, it has nothing really to do with politics, perhaps, but it has to do with inventing an excuse which matches with how someone wants to control other people.

I offer > I have been following this, for a while. Even before the Delta variant, there was reporting that vaccinated people could get COVID-19 or be infected but asymptomatic, and therefore could infect other people. However, what I understand is the vaccine could prepare people to fight an infection so it would make them less able to infect others, than if they had not been vaccinated.

From what I understand with my background in science and medicine, this is theoretically possible. Now, the interesting item is to know whether conspirators have cleverly made this up, in this case of COVID-19, or if it really is happening. I, of course, can not prove it, either way . . . not as a personal eyewitness . . . and mind witness . . . of what is going on in every human's head and body

So, I got the shots, and I wear a mask . . . even just to show ones with masks that I care about how they feel.

There are cruel and brutal spouses in the United States. They are called domestic abusers. And ones of these are interfering with their family members getting vaccinated. It has nothing, really, to do with science or politics, really, but with how they are in their character.

If you look at how tyrants were able to rise to power, you might notice how they were able to get enough psychopaths and foolish people to side with them. Adolph Hitler is only one example. Germany was a civilized nation; but Nazis were able to get enough people of nonfunctioning consciences to do what the SS did and what was done to millions of Jews and other people in Nazi concentration camps.

And anywhere else, I offer, there are psychopaths, ready to go . . . in case they somehow get the impression that they can get away with what they would do. Look at how many now already are ok with killing unborn people . . . if they can get the power and get away with it. Look at how ones attacked and killed Native American family members . . . not just warriors . . . not only noncombatants, in order to take land from sovereign Native nations. Enough people were capable of doing that, ignoring it, not stopping it.

There are cruel and brutal people who can abuse those who do not do things their way. Look how Jewish mothers and fathers became able to curse their own children with the shed blood of Jesus > "His blood be on us and on our children" > mothers and fathers cursing their own children with the blood of God's own Son > in Matthew 27:25. This is what humans without Jesus have the basic ability to do, during the time of Jesus, of Nazi Germany, of the COVID-19 thing.

Like I have offered, above, already ones were saying that previous strains of SARS-CoV-2 could infect vaccinated people and then be spread either by vaccinated people sick with COVID-19, or by vaccinated asymptomatic spreaders. I suppose it is more possible that a vaccinated person could be asymptomatic if infected, since the vaccine would prime him or her to fight the virus so it would not cause symptoms but might still be there to get itself spread; but I would say someone vaccinated but asymptomatic could be fighting the virus more effectively so the person would be less able to spread it because of fighting it faster and better than someone unvaccinated.

However > if I understand correctly > ones vaccinated can be harder for the virus to use. Their ability to spread can be less than if they had not been vaccinated.

But the Delta creature has more ability to spread, through whomever it infects. One way already reported is if a strain has more spikes on the surface of each virus. It has more spikes so more chances of grabbing onto a cell and getting into a cell.

Let's say you have a wall covered with Velcro. And you have one ball with twenty two-inch-wide circles of Velcro on that ball. Meanwhile you have a Delta model ball with hundreds of two-inch circles of sticky Velcro on it. If you toss each ball against the wall, which one is most likely to catch itself on the wall? Like this, the Delta strain maybe has more of those spike proteins on it, for getting itself attached to and entered into a cell in a lung. But other earlier SARS-CoV-2 viruses do not have so many spikes, and so they are not so able to spread.

So, the Delta's danger is not that it is stronger to make you sicker, but that it can spread more easily so more people get sick and die and suffer.

Actually, it is not about how strong the virus is, but how well your immune system manages it. We are seeing immune systems overreacting, plus humans overreacting . . . possibly in trying to help, but also in trying to control people from getting the vaccine . . . while others could be trying to control people to get vaccinated. Some control seeking people are more nasty than others.

Thank you for the thoughtful response.

 

[DamianWarS]

For those people threatening to retaliate against others who get vaccinated, it's not about facts. They've been indoctrinated to the point that there's no amount of evidence that would change their minds.

since being vaccinated is optional retaliation from either side has missed the point

 

[HARK!]

(CNN)The Covid-19 vaccine has become so polarizing that some people in Missouri are getting inoculated in secret for fear of backlash from their friends and family who oppose vaccination, a doctor told CNN on Wednesday.

Excellent!

I don't trust CNN as a credible source; but I can add fear of retaliation to the list of reasons to defend my freedom of choice.

 

[The Barbarian]

Excellent!

I don't trust CNN as a credible source;

Doesn't matter. There are numerous examples of politically-motivated attacks on doctors and others for promoting vaccinations.

but I can add fear of retaliation to the list of reasons to defend my freedom of choice.

Pretty much the way alcoholics defend their freedom of choice to drink and drive.

 

[The Barbarian]

since being vaccinated is optional retaliation from either side has missed the point

Anti-vaxxers have never been accused of being overly rational.

 

[The Barbarian]

I know and there are many who are financially motivated too.

Other than funeral home directors, who has a financial motivation to keep people from being vaccinated?

It is best to take a cross section from other countries also in coming to conclusions IMO.

I don't think there's another nation with the kind of politically motivated resistance to vaccination that we see here.

 

[The Barbarian]

I personally know someone who is reporting that a spouse is browbeating the person not to get a vaccine. This is what cruel and control seeking people do. So, it has nothing really to do with politics, perhaps, but it has to do with inventing an excuse which matches with how someone wants to control other people.

Control is probably a huge reason for some. But it's noteworthy that the pandemic is fast becoming a red state disease. Correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, but it's hard to see why that would be the case otherwise.

But it sounds like mainstream authorities are saying that the Delta creature has more ability to spread, through whomever it infects. How can one strain be more able to spread, than others? One way already reported reason is if a strain has more of those attachment and cell entry spikes on the surface of each virus. It has more spikes and therefore, I would say, more chances of grabbing onto a cell and getting into a cell.

The data shows that a person who is infected with the Delta variant sheds many more virus particles than one with other variants of the virus. This is why vaccinated people are less likely to infect others, even if they do carry the virus; vaccinated people shed fewer particles. And since there is always a minimum infectious dose of any virus, the infectivity of the Delta variant is related to how much virus is shed.

The number of attachment sites on the virus is probably less important than the number of particles in the air. The fact that infection with the Delta variant is no more likely to cause severe illness than infection with other variants suggest that the larger number of particles produced by the Delta variant is most important.

 

[DamianWarS]

Anti-vaxxers have never been accused of being overly rational.

perhaps, but aggression from the other side isn't fair to a person's right to choose. I agree, it's probably better for everyone to get vaccinated but we can't use the science like it is law. people have a right to choose or not choose and they shouldn't feel forced into it. Sure, we want to correct misinformation and promote accuracy but not at the expense of violating someone's right to choose. This works both ways of course and it's not good that people feel they need to hide a vaccination but neither should people feel they are in error because they are not getting vaccinated. I get unvaccinated people may cause more risk to those around them and do not help the prevention of spreading this disease but they shouldn't be bullied because they don't feel comfortable getting vaccinated. Treat it like spreading the gospel, promote the good news but don't force it because then it's no longer good news.

 

[Crwth]

My senses tell me you are absolutely correct!

The purpose of some is intentional agitation and instigation - to foment and create division. Some do it for ideological reasons, others merely because of what they are. The former need exposing, the latter... well, it's best to just quit feeding the latter. CNN is a monstrous example of both.

 

[mama2one]

but c'mon - how many such people are there really that are so afraid of what their friends and "loved ones" think that they're getting vaccinated IN SECRET to avoid recrimination? .

not so far fetched at all!

we have a healthcare relative that got the vaccine & is keeping it secret from spouse

that spouse is a conspiracy theory person who believes the vaccine will take away belief in God!

 

[rturner76]

I will only share this, something I could grab easily. I'm sure there's more out there if you get curious.

New US mask guidance prompted by evidence vaccinated can spread Delta

Yeah some people get a breakthrough of the virus but it doesn't say it's ineffective or causing more damage than unvaccinated people. The unvaccinated are spreading their diseased mucus everywhere. one in a hundred thousand may get a breakthrough virus. I'll take the odds of the vaccinated over the sputum of the unvaccinated who actually make the problem worse instead of better.

 

[The Barbarian]

perhaps, but aggression from the other side isn't fair to a person's right to choose.

If you've had a loved relative who died in the pandemic, and you know that unvaccinated people are the incubators of more dangerous variants, it's hard to blame you for speaking out. Forcing someone to have a vaccination is not justifiable under most circumstances, but it's perfectly legal to make vaccination a requirement to hold jobs where the public is exposed.

If you want to drive drunk, and you have your own road, it's your call. If you want to drive drunk on public roads, then there's a problem.

Sure, we want to correct misinformation and promote accuracy but not at the expense of violating someone's right to choose.

No one has the right to demand that misinformation not be exposed.

 

[The Barbarian]

I get unvaccinated people may cause more risk to those around them and do not help the prevention of spreading this disease but they shouldn't be bullied because they don't feel comfortable getting vaccinated. Treat it like spreading the gospel, promote the good news but don't force it because then it's no longer good news.

It's the libertarian dilemma. When does individual freedom end and one's responsibility to not endanger others begin?

Not an easy question. But it seems clear enough to me that businesses, governments, and public venues have the responsibility and the right to insist that no one expose others to unnecessary risks on their property.

The irony here, is that those who will avoid vaccination (and who could reduce their risk to others by wearing a mask) are often those least likely to be willing to wear a mask to protect others.

 

[Jake Arsenal]

It's the libertarian dilemma. When does individual freedom end and one's responsibility to not endanger others begin?

Not an easy question. But it seems clear enough to me that businesses, governments, and public venues have the responsibility and the right to insist that no one expose others to unnecessary risks on their property.

The irony here, is that those who will avoid vaccination (and who could reduce their risk to others by wearing a mask) are often those least likely to be willing to wear a mask to protect others.

 

[Jake Arsenal]

It's the libertarian dilemma. When does individual freedom end and one's responsibility to not endanger others begin?

Not an easy question.

It is an easy question with an easy answer. It only seems a difficult question to people who refuse to accept the answer.

The polarization of society on any given issue proves the issue to be about control.