Secret Teachings

[ananda]

Why did Jesus teach hidden knowledge to his inner disciples? "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." Mt 13:10,11 cf Mk 4:10,11; Lk 8:9-10 ... also compare what appears to be a contradiction in John 18:20.

Why teach anything esoteric or hidden at all, instead of being completely open, plain, and clear about something as essential as salvation to the world?

I am reminded of what Buddha stated in comparison: "The doctrine and discipline proclaimed by the Buddha shine when open and not when covered, even as the sun and moon shine when open and not when covered" (AN 1), "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Secrecy is the hallmark of false doctrines" or "I have taught the Dhamma, Ânanda, without making any distinction between exoteric and esoteric doctrine; for in respect of the truths, Ânanda, the Tathâgata has no such thing as the closed fist of a teacher who hides some essential knowledge from the pupil." (DN 16).
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[Zstar]

Why did Jesus teach hidden knowledge to his inner disciples? "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." Mt 13:10,11 cf Mk 4:10,11; Lk 8:9-10 ... also compare what appears to be a contradiction in John 18:20.

Why teach anything esoteric or hidden at all, instead of being completely open, plain, and clear about something as essential as salvation to the world?

I am reminded of what Buddha stated in comparison: "The doctrine and discipline proclaimed by the Buddha shine when open and not when covered, even as the sun and moon shine when open and not when covered" (AN 1), "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Secrecy is the hallmark of false doctrines" or "I have taught the Dhamma, Ânanda, without making any distinction between exoteric and esoteric doctrine; for in respect of the truths, Ânanda, the Tathâgata has no such thing as the closed fist of a teacher who hides some essential knowledge from the pupil." (DN 16).
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I've always been inspired about these Traditions. Not many like yourself would explore this subject, leading one to acknowledge things have been passed down to us from Ancient Times. Isn't this Mysticysm? The question is does one want to relate, the Biblcal and ancient truths to them, right?

The 'Star of Bethlehem' from star knolowedge and the idea Magi came to Jesus Christ from St. Matthew. One can draw the YOD...and the corrrespondances of the Planets from modern charts to me this an affirmation of we were on the right trek all along.

 

[ananda]

I've always been inspired about these Traditions. Not many like yourself would explore this subject, leading one to acknowledge things have been passed down to us from Ancient Times. Isn't this Mysticysm? The question is does one want to relate, the Biblcal and ancient truths to them, right?

The 'Star of Bethlehem' from star knolowedge and the idea Magi came to Jesus Christ from St. Matthew. One can draw the YOD...and the corrrespondances of the Planets from modern charts to me this an affirmation of we were on the right trek all along.

It sounds like you are in support of hidden & secret teachings? I was arguing against it ...

 

[gord44]

Why teach anything esoteric or hidden at all, instead of being completely open, plain, and clear about something as essential as salvation to the world?

Possibly that not everyone is capable or has the spiritual maturity to know those things. Some people never will have an interest in knowing the 'hidden' or achieving 'gnosis' and that's just fine. This kinda supports reincarnation in my opinion. Each return to this reality, although having a 'new mind' carries the same 'soul' that can be built upon.

 

[ananda]

Possibly that not everyone is capable or has the spiritual maturity to know those things. Some people never will have an interest in knowing the 'hidden' or achieving 'gnosis' and that's just fine. This kinda supports reincarnation in my opinion. Each return to this reality, although having a 'new mind' carries the same 'soul' that can be built upon.

If orthodox Christianity is correct in their belief that belief is all that is necessary for salvation, then why is there a need for any additional secret teachings?

 

[Arthra]

Netzarim ...

The answer to the question

Why did Jesus teach hidden knowledge to his inner disciples?

I think is one of capacity...

"....Because it is given unto you to know.."

It also says...in John 16:12

"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear."

The context of the above verse as you know is:

…11and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. 12"I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.…

 

[gord44]

If orthodox Christianity is correct in their belief that belief is all that is necessary for salvation, then why is there a need for any additional secret teachings?

following the line of thought from my earlier response, secret teachings are there for those who desire 'higher' spiritual learning. as mentioned, not every soul is at a point where these teaching would be useful or would even make sense. Orthodox Christianity would not be a path to liberation.

 

[LilLamb219]

If orthodox Christianity is correct in their belief that belief is all that is necessary for salvation, then why is there a need for any additional secret teachings?

God has told us all we need to know for salvation. Some reject what He says and it's the same as when Jesus walked the earth and spoke to people.

Do you know that the people back then were used to hearing parables? It was an easy way for them to connect to the message, yet again, there were people who would reject what was being said.

God has His own timing. Jesus did not just announce to people, Hey, look at me, I'm your Savior so bow down to me. Would that have won souls? God's plan wasn't always what we would have done...but it's HIS plan and done in His time. He's always provided a Savior, first by the promise of one in Genesis and then by the death and resurrection for our redemption.

There is no other mystery that hasn't been revealed for us to know our sins are forgiven and that we have a Savior. That is the important message.

 

[dlamberth]

If all one is looking for is salvation, there's no secret on how to get there. At least from a Christian perspective. Not all religions are about salvation. The thing is, a lot of folks have an inner burning desire for much more than concepts of salvation. If one want's more and is desiring a deeper opening to God as their "reality" in life, though God is wide open for all to see, not everyone is ready for those inner teaching. As a result, the teachings seem "secret" or "hidden" to those who are not yet ready for them.

In most holy scripture that I'm aware of (including the Bible) there are a lot of those hidden teachings given. I point to the Christian mystics as those who do see something deeper in the Bible that is hidden to the rest of us. In Islam I look towards the Sufies as an example of a people who see a deeper spiritual teachings in the Qur'an that others say is hidden. In Hinduism, the Gurus find hidden teachings in the Vedas, Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita. And in the indigenous cultures, the Shamans find a deeper hidden teaching within the Earth and it's creatures.

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[bling]

Why did Jesus teach hidden knowledge to his inner disciples? "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." Mt 13:10,11 cf Mk 4:10,11; Lk 8:9-10 ... also compare what appears to be a contradiction in John 18:20.

Why teach anything esoteric or hidden at all, instead of being completely open, plain, and clear about something as essential as salvation to the world?

I am reminded of what Buddha stated in comparison: "The doctrine and discipline proclaimed by the Buddha shine when open and not when covered, even as the sun and moon shine when open and not when covered" (AN 1), "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Secrecy is the hallmark of false doctrines" or "I have taught the Dhamma, Ânanda, without making any distinction between exoteric and esoteric doctrine; for in respect of the truths, Ânanda, the Tathâgata has no such thing as the closed fist of a teacher who hides some essential knowledge from the pupil." (DN 16).
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There are lots of reason Jesus used parables. Some of them are:

1. If Jesus gave a technical literal explanation about the Kingdom the people would not understand since they have nothing like the Kingdom of God to relate to.

2. They could easily remember an interesting story especially if it was about the business or family they were in.

3. Jesus’ stories were very entertaining, so people stayed around listening to him.

4. In a short parable Christ could convey a ton of information about the Kingdom.

5. The people would unwittingly remember and retell Jesus’ stories; which was conveying a ton of information about the Kingdom.

6. Jesus was conveying and spreading information about the Kingdom, that people would remember and be able to use when the Kingdom does come to them in a few short years after Pentecost.

7. Once people are in the Kingdom they can easily understand the Spiritual meaning to the parables.

 

[Mumin]

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[LilLamb219]

He was sent first to the Jews. God has His timing and His plan.

We also have to look at what was happening historically at the time to understand things. Jews and the non-Jews did not associate with each other. But if you read further in the verse of Matthew 15, you'll see that Jesus was holding out and waiting for the woman to show faith...which she did.

 

[Mumin]

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[bling]

Luke 8:10 he said, "the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand."

John 18:20 "I have spoken openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret.

Notice that he was referring to Jews, his disciples were also Jews.

In Matthew 15:21 a non-Jewish woman is requiring Jesus:

Mt. 15:23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."
15:24 he answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
15:26 (he speaks to her in parables)

The clear teachings were taught to the Jews, and the parables to the non-Jews?

Jesus said: Mark 4: 33 With many such parables he spoke the word to them, as they were able to hear it; 34 he did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything.

Jesus only spoke one time to a large group of non-Jews Samaritans John 4 and all the other times to Jews and in parables to those Jews.

To only the intergroup of Jews (maybe as many as 120 or just the 12 around Jesus) did Jesus give the spiritual parallel meaning of the parables.

Those that heard only the parable version still had a ton of information being conveyed to them, which they would remember and tell others. The story itself was not hidden, but the interpretation was difficult to understand without the Kingdom itself to relate to, which comes a few years later on Pentecost.
Jesus knew he would be here but a very short time so all he had the time to do was prepare the Jews for the kingdom and not take the time than to go to the Gentiles. The Jews had been prepared for the Messiah’s coming and could become the solid core for the Church to build on, while the gentile would need a lot more work to just get up to where the Jews were.

When Jesus talks about being “open and clear” with his message he is conveying the idea anyone can quote what He said and lots heard it. Jesus did not have secret meetings tell stuff that could not be repeated.

When you quote: "though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand." In Luke 8:10, Jesus is quoting from Isaiah 6:9 which the Jews who knew scripture would have fully realized and knew the meaning of Isaiah 6:9. Jesus was teaching the same kind of people Isaiah taught (stubborn, hard hearted, not wanting to listen, sinners). It is not the messager making it hard to the audience to understand, but the hearers of the message that refuse to listen (this is how Isaiah use those words).