Secret Gospels

[JM]

Hey folks,

The other day I read or watched (maybe listened to I can't remember) someone say the Oriental Orthodox taught a gnosis of sorts. A teaching that would line up with the early Valentinian teaching. Is there any truth to that?

Is this a valid icon of Valentinius?

Thank you,

jm

 

[dzheremi]

Hi JM,

No, there is no truth to that at all. The Oriental Orthodox Church is in no way Gnostic, and our fathers wrote extensively against the Gnostics. The saint pictured in the Coptic icon you have shared is HH St. Athanasius the Apostolic, not Valentinius.

Here is a Coptic Orthodox page where you can read about the struggle of the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria against the Gnostics: The School of Alexandria - Part I/Ch 4 - The Gnostics

Gnosticism was very popular in both pagan and 'Christian' forms in Egypt (the most well-known corpus of Gnostic writings was discovered in the 1940s in Nag Hammadi, a city in Upper Egypt), so the fathers of the Coptic Orthodox Church are very important in the defense of Christianity against the Gnostics.

 

[JM]

Thanks for the info. It was stated that monks taught gnosis in private, it was not apart of the public teaching, just the monks and nuns.

 

[archer75]

Whenever there's a claim like this with no evidence, get very suspicious.

 

[dzheremi]

Thanks for the info. It was stated that monks taught gnosis in private, it was not apart of the public teaching, just the monks and nuns.

No, that's plainly not the case. We have the teachings of the first three hundred years or so of monasticism in the Egyptian, Syrian, and Palestinian deserts (as well as some from Arabia and Persia, such as Abba John the Persian) in the form of the sayings of the Desert Fathers and Mothers, the Vitas of many of the most famous penned by their disciples (e.g., the life of St. Anthony by St. Athanasius, the life of St. Shenouda by Besa, the life of St. John the Little by Zacharias of Sakha, etc.), and many other writings recounting the same, so we know that there was no such private teaching of gnosticism, and in fact no teaching of gnosticism period. When you look to the fathers instead what you see is a strenuous opposition to gnosticism. Again, you can see many references to fathers who taught against that in the linked article.

Also, just FYI, the division of teaching between the monks and other types of Christians in the church makes very little sense when talking about the Oriental Orthodox in particular. From the beginning until today we have developed a culture (at least in the Egyptian Church, where monasticism was born) wherein our bishops are chosen from among the monastics, and our priests too must go to the monastery for their training. It would not be possible to go to the monastery and be taught one thing which is against the Church and then go back to 'civilian' life to preach the correct faith instead, as the monasteries are overseen by abbots who are likewise accountable to bishops just as any parish within a diocese is (when I was in the monastery of St. Shenouda a few years ago, HG Bishop David actually stopped by one night to check on things, stay the night, and pray the prayers with the people there, and this is not at all uncommon). So that is not how things work. What is preached in the monastery and what is preached in the Church are the same.

 

[JM]

Honestly, monasticism seems to have little to do with Christianity, I was just checking with OO to see what you had to say.

 

[Lukaris]

Honestly, monasticism seems to have little to do with Christianity, I was just checking with OO to see what you had to say.

I fail to see monasticism as having little to do with Christianity since it has St. John the Baptist as its role model.

 

[shadowhunter]

The term Gnostic gets thrown around and everyone thinks they know what each other are saying. There was a cult called Gnostic.

But the word simply means knowledge. There is a mystery hidden in the OT which is revealed in the new. The OT is like a Where's Waldo book, but no one knew to look for Waldo until he time of the cross. Jesus said that all the scriptures spoke of him.. not in some generic preparation of the ages, but specifically of him. This is the "mystery hidden from the beginning".

Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Ro 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Ro 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Faith is based in knowledge of God. There is nothing bad about knowledge. There is nothing wrong with seeing Christ in all the scriptures (an ability lost to most).

So much of the teaching of the mystery of Christ is misidentified as Gnosticism.
Luke teaches us to read the mystery:

In Acts 12, Luke demonstrates his knowledge of the Hebrew concept of the secret layer of scripture called ‘sod’ (pronounced with a long ‘o’). The reason he wrote it is to make a demonstration to the Greeks HOW the Hebrews see Christ in the Old Testament scriptures. The Gospels reveal the sod of the Old Testament, and Luke writes a sod from the gospels. The sod always speaks of Christ. Even the Rabbis say that the Messiah is, or reveals, the sod.

Here is a brief overview of the secret concerning Jesus:

Herod vexed Christ
Herod vexed the body of Christ (the church)
Jesus was arrested the week before Passover
Peter was arrested the week before Passover
Jesus was set between two (thieves)
Peter was set between two (guards)
A light shown in the tomb
A light shown in the cell
Jesus was poked in the side
Peter was poked in the side
Three barriers to escape (two days in death and the stone which was opened on the third day)
Three barriers to escape (two sets of guards and a gate)
The stone opened itself
The gate open itself
The first person Jesus saw was Mary
Peter went to Mary’s house
The woman who met Jesus (Mary) ran to tell the disciples
The woman who met Peter (Rhoda) ran to tell the disciples
She was told she was crazy
She was told she was mad
When Jesus finished visiting his disciples he went to another place
When Peter finished visiting the disciples he went to another place
There is also a riddle: At the beginning of Chapter 12 we are told that James was killed by Herod. At the end, Peter says to go tell James. Those who died before the cross, rose with Christ.

Luke wrote Acts 12 in such a way as to hide a secret picture of Christ within. He used the historical facts as prophetic riddle pointing back to the cross. He did this to teach us how to read the Old Testament.

Genesis 38 has been called the worst chapter of the Bible, but it contains a beautiful picture of the birth of Christ.

Tamar met Judah before Timnath (the appointment) (Ge 38:14)
Mary met God before the appointed time of Christ. (Heb 9:27)

Tamar was offered a goat by Judah. (Ge 38:17)
The angel told Mary “He will save his people from their sins.” (Mt 1:21) These words are used of the scapegoat.

Tamar wanted an assurance that she would receive the goat, (Ge 38:17)
Mary asked for an assuring word of explanation. (Lk 1:34)

Tamar was given the staff or rod which represents the power of God in discipline. (Pr 22:15, Pr 23:13, Pr 29:15)
Mary was told the power of the Highest would overshadow her. (Lk 1:35)

Tamar was given the signet ring. (Ge 38:18) A signet ring declares the wearer to be a son.
Mary was told that he would be called the Son of God. (Lk 1:35)

Tamar was given bracelets. (Ge 38:18) Bracelets cover an empty vessel to keep it clean.
Mary was told that she was not unclean because although she was with child, it was by the Holy Ghost. (Lk 1:35)

Tamar bore twins (Ge 38:27)
Mary bore the dual-natured God-Man. (Joh 8:58)

The names of the twins mean ‘breaking forth’ and ‘rising sun’
Jesus was called Dayspring.(Lu 1:78)

The second son was born first (Ge 38:28-29)
Jesus is the second Adam (1Co 15:45-47)

And he knew her again no more (Gen 38:26)
Jesus was the only begotten son. (Joh 1:18)

These are part of the mystery with was revealed in Christ Jesus. They are specific prophecies of him. And they aren't Gnostic. These were taught privately because the subtlety made it easy to get confused and fall into free-for-all allegory if rigorous rules were not followed. I would have to dig, but I believe it was Clement who said he taught things in person that he would not write down, for this reason.

 

[JM]

Was the icon of Valentinius valid? Is he a Saint?

Thank you,

jm

 

[dzheremi]

Again, as I wrote in post #2, that's not an icon of Valentinius. It's an icon of HH St. Athanasius the Apostolic, the 20th bishop of Alexandria. It says that very clearly at the top of the image in Coptic: "Athanasios Pi-apostolikos".

Valentinius is not a saint.