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Featured Seattle Police Chief to Residents, Business Owners: You’re on Your Own

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by Lord Vega, Jul 28, 2020.

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  1. Lord Vega

    Lord Vega King NES

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    From the article: Seattle Chief of Police Carmen Best advised her city’s business owners and residents that local police will not “risk their personal safety to protect property” after a ban issued by the city council of “less lethal tools” — such as pepper spray — for the purposes dispersing crowds to control rioters.

    Best issued her warning in a letter on Friday:

    Dear Business Owner and/or Resident:

    Please know that the Seattle Police Department is committed to addressing life safety incidents and calls for service, and responding to ongoing demonstrations and unrest in the city.

    Please also know that the City Council Ordinance 119805 Crowd Control Tool goes into effect this weekend on July 26, 020. This ordinance bans Seattle Police officers [from using] less lethal tools, including pepper spray that is commonly used to disperse crowds that have turned violent. Simply put, the legislation gives officers NO ability to safely intercede to preserve property in the midst of a large, violent crowd.

    It is important to bring to your attention that yesterday, I sent the City Council a letter ensuring them that as the Chief of Police, I have done my due diligence of informing them them numerous times of the foreseeable impact of this ordinance on upcoming events. The letter is attached for your reference.

    For these reasons, Seattle Police will have an adjusted deployment in response to any demonstrations this weekend – as I will never ask our officers to risk their personal safety to protect property without the tools to do so in a safe way.

    Sincerely,

    Carmen Best

    Chief of Police

    Read the rest of the article here: Seattle Police Chief to Residents, Business Owners: You're on Your Own
     
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  2. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    These are perilous times. It might still be OK for Seattle as long as no one learns that the police are powerless to stop the protests from getting out of control.
     
  3. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    it is foolish to limit the police to having only clubs and guns.
     
  4. Richard T

    Richard T Well-Known Member

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    The police chief is smart. His hands are tied and he is protecting his officers. The council is to blame so if the people do not like the results, then they will be voted out or in this case, be recalled.
     
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  5. Arcangl86

    Arcangl86 Newbie

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    The police chef is misrepresenting what the ordinance actually says. Tear gas cannot be used to disperse a crowd, but it can still be used to prevent a crime, like rioting.
     
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  6. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    Whoa! How do you "prevent" rioting? You are saying while it is still a crowd and before it is a riot they can use tear gas? How is someone going to tell the difference, it is in the eye of the beholder. To one person they used tear gas to disperse a crowd, lock him up. To another he was preventing a crime like rioting, innocent!
     
  7. Arcangl86

    Arcangl86 Newbie

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    I'm saying once the riot starts they can then use tear gas to try and bring it under control.
     
  8. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    So they can't use it to prevent a crime, only to respond to one.
     
  9. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    So, do you think that it's okay to stop and search an individual while he is window shopping to stop him from shop lifting?
     
  10. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    No, I think you need probable cause. Now that cameras are so cheap and saving footage to the internet is so cheap, and AI identifying people it is unnecessary for the police to get involved.

    I entered this little discussion because you said the police chief is mistaken about the ordinance, you said he was allowed to use tear gas to prevent riots. I think the police chief is not mistaken. No way he asks his police to use tear gas until violent felonies are already being committed. Only then would it be justified to all. No doubt businesses and insurance companies would like them to use it to "prevent" the crime, but doing so would make the individual officers and the department as a whole liable to civil and criminal charges.

    Now let's consider that. These protests and riots take place at night. Looting is often done while police are busy elsewhere. So what is the likelihood in the midst of the chaos to say "OK, we have clear violent felonies taking place"? On the contrary it is very possible the police wouldn't know about a violent felony for thirty minutes, maybe even longer. Now if you disperse peaceful protestors so that you can get to the violent looters will that be considered a violation of the ordinance? The police chief is right, they can't pull out the tear gas just because some people are looting, beating up people and burning down property. They have to wait until all hell breaks loose before they will not be liable.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  11. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    Probable cause isn't using tear gas on peaceful protesters, who are legally there, so the President can make a campaign speech in front of a church that he doesn't attend.

    That wasn't me. :)
     
  12. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    File a complaint, the majority of Americans agree with you.


    Well we need to find out who it was!
     
  13. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    The easy way to find out is to use the little blue arrows on the quote. Just push it and it takes you back the that post. Continue doing it til you get to the post you are looking for.
     
  14. Radagast

    Radagast comes and goes Supporter

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    Her hands.
     
  15. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    The Seattle Police chief will not appreciate your comments about HER quite as much as you might anticipate. And she is smart and backs her troops. Unfortunately she has to deal with a mayor and city council who are not smart.
     
  16. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    It might be. What if he has several layers of what you believe are stolen clothes on.
     
  17. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    That would the possibility that a crime had been which doesn't fit the scenario the poster put forth.
     
  18. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    Maybe but I think it would fit if it was obvious that the individual had several layers of clothes on and he was now heading towards the fitting room with a cart full of clothes. I believe that would satisfy the reasonable articulable suspicion requirements under the law. If the search revealed clothes from another store that still had price tags attached there would be pc for an arrest.
     
  19. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    Your throwing a lot of "ifs" around when that doesn't meet the criteria of the post in question,
     
  20. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    looked like an open question, if you want specifics that limit the question put some in.
     
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