SDA view of Joining The Armed Forces

[JonMiller]

SDAs were a lot more pacificistic before 1960. I think that that was even part of a split with a european SDA church.

JM

 

[honorthesabbath]

Kill them all and let God sort them out.

But seriously-if we did not have people fighting for our freedom, we would not have it, period. Nothing irks me more than armchair critics who judge and condemn soldiers for what they have to do, even as these self-righteous ones sit back and get fat enjoying the very liberties obtained at the expense of bloodshed.

It's almost as if we Adventists expect to just keep our hands clean, making sure our salvation secure, while letting others be lost doing the the dirty work of killing. We let them do the dirty work, enjoy the freedoms, and then condemn them for doing it.

Shame on us.

Fight for your country. And kill for it if need be. God will not hold it against you. The commandment prohibits pre-meditated murder, not killing that is necessary to maintain a free nation.

Night--which branch of the service did you serve in? Just curious.

 

[honorthesabbath]

I would say more about the war in Iraq, but this is a non-debate area.

 

[NightEternal]

Night--which branch of the service did you serve in? Just curious.

Someone is apparently not reading posts very closely but likes using sarcasm. Again, for the unperceptive:

If NE believes so much what he said, why didn't he enlist himself and go to Iraq???​

Irrelevant to the issue at hand. I have not and do not criticize the fighting soldiers. I support them.​

And if I ever did decide to do such a thing, I would have no qualms about using my weapon in battle.​

http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=41618549&postcount=18

Typical, well-worn Trad tactic of trying to make things personal and about me instead of the issue at hand.​

 

[RND]

I support the troops too!

 

[OntheDL]

Someone is apparently not reading posts very closely but likes using sarcasm. Again, for the unperceptive:

If NE believes so much what he said, why didn't he enlist himself and go to Iraq???​

Irrelevant to the issue at hand. I have not and do not criticize the fighting soldiers. I support them.
​

​

Well nobody said you critized the soldiers. The question was: if you believe so much about fighting for your 'freedom' that you would kill, then why don't you put your action where your words are, rather than having the Americans do the 'dirty work' for you?

 

[sentipente]

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Well nobody said you critized the soldiers. The question was: if you believe so much about fighting for your 'freedom' that you would kill, then why don't you put your action where your words are, rather than having the Americans do the 'dirty work' for you?

I continue to be amazed at the mean streak that rears its head in Christians when they find themselves on the losing end of a simple debate. Amazed and saddened.

 

[OntheDL]

I continue to be amazed at the meas streak that rears its head in Christians when they find themselves on the losing end of a simple debate. Amazed and saddened.

Lets just say I'm no longer amazed by your posts anymore.

With them I understand how perceptions can become reality.

 

[NightEternal]

Well nobody said you critized the soldiers. The question was: if you believe so much about fighting for your 'freedom' that you would kill, then why don't you put your action where your words are, rather than having the Americans do the 'dirty work' for you?

It is interesting that you assume my opinion is invalid if I do not enlist and take the first flight to Iraq. A giant, nonsensical leap in logic if I ever saw one. So just because I do not feel personally called to join the Armed Forces I am lying about my position and do not really believe that fighting for freedom is necessary (why you put freedom in quotation marks I do not know-I must assume you think you live in a country without freedoms.)

Your demand that I enlist is irrelevant to the issue at hand and has nothing to do with wether or not the OP should be concerned that having to fight would violate his Christian faith. I believe it would not. He has made his choice to join. I have other employment options in life which precludes me from having to. But, if for some reason I did join, I would have no issues with fighting and killing. So your and Honor's subtle implication that I am coward for not enlisting tomorrow is a cheap shot and idiotic, nor is it based on any semblance of practical reality. As if your schoolyard bullying tactics, jibes and insults are going to cause me to suddenly drop everything in my life and take a course of action that I have never even remotely entertained previously. By your ridiculous reasoning, every single right-wing political pundit or individual in the world who encouraged our fighting soldiers and expressed support for the idea that killing is necessary to attain and retain freedom would have to run and join with Uncle Sam for thier opinion to be proven valid.

Good luck with that.

A pathetic attempt at a strawman argument for sure. Of course, what can I expect from someone who thinks thier commander-in-chief is a mass murderer? This is the mentality I am dealing with.

Also, if you want to blame someone for Canadians not backing you guys in the war after 9/11, you can talk to our former Prime Minister about that. It was his call, and not every Canadian agreed with him.

 

[Cliff2]

This is not an easy question to answer. At first glance it does seem easy and straight forward.

I guess I am sitting on the fence but have to admit that I have one son in the navy and a possible son-in-law in the army and another son that wants to join up.

Probably not my first choice of professions but with me the jury is still out.

Just happy to have them all home for Christmas.

 

[catlover]

Kill them all and let God sort them out.

But seriously-if we did not have people fighting for our freedom, we would not have it, period. Nothing irks me more than armchair critics who judge and condemn soldiers for what they have to do, even as these self-righteous ones sit back and get fat enjoying the very liberties obtained at the expense of bloodshed.

It's almost as if we Adventists expect to just keep our hands clean, making sure our salvation secure, while letting others be lost doing the the dirty work of killing. We let them do the dirty work, enjoy the freedoms, and then condemn them for doing it.

Shame on us.

Fight for your country. And kill for it if need be. God will not hold it against you. The commandment prohibits pre-meditated murder, not killing that is necessary to maintain a free nation.

God does frown on nationalism...I thought Adventists did not like nationalism....for that matter.BTW go visit a veteran's hospital in The U.S.A before you go writing absurdities like that...this country USES veteran's like toilet paper and does not want to pay for their care after sending them to war...they discharge them for PTSD but under the guise of "misconduct"....that way the "good ole' U.S.A gets out of paying these men and women benefits...so before you get all guts and glory look at what this country does to it's veterans.

 

[catlover]

Also, if you want to blame someone for Canadians not backing you guys in the war after 9/11, you can talk to our former Prime Minister about that. It was his call, and not every Canadian agreed with him.

Your former Prime Minister was spot on to not get the Canadians involved in Iraq....Furthermore the current abomination President Bush, who got in office the first time on suspicious premises, has used 9/11 to take away Americans freedom..what do you think of the Patriot ACT??? An average citizen can be searched without a warrant...we can be wire tapped without a warrant...Frankly there are too many coincidences with 9/11 it's a wonder this idiot in office maybe allowed 9/11to happen...much like Roosevelt ignored the warnings about Pearl Harbor...so The U.S would get involved in W.W 2

Anyhow...the idiot in office has absolutely destroyed the U.S, the economy stinks, The U.S.A is in a war worse than Vietnam, and...and..what the heck does Afghanistan have to do with Canada???

 

[NightEternal]

You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine. You are also entitled to find my opinion repugnant and absurd.

BTW, I am not applauding Bush or your government wholesale with a blind eye to thier problems in this thread. I am uplifting and applauding your brave soldiers who fight and die for freedom. If that is wrong then let me be wrong.

Or have things not changed that much since the days when the 'give peace a chance' dope-smoking hippies spit on the soldiers returning from Vietnam calling them 'baby killers'?

 

[catlover]

You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine. You are also entitled to find my opinion repugnant and absurd.

BTW, I am not applauding Bush or your government wholesale with a blind eye to thier problems in this thread. I am uplifting and applauding your brave soldiers who fight and die for freedom. If that is wrong then let me be wrong.

Or have things not changed that much since the days when the 'give peace a chance' dope-smoking hippies spit on the soldiers returning from Vietnam calling them 'baby killers'?

I hear you on that one...no one who serves in the armed forces should have garbage thrown at them or be taunted..

 

[honorthesabbath]

I'm not gonna go in depth about my story but simply gonna ask the question.
It's been a hope for most of my life to join the USMC but it's all just starting to click in my head. Would it contradict my Christian more importantly my Adventist faith.

Hi Christian78--to get your thread back on track and try to answer your question for you, I would say to wait a few years to take this very important step. I notice that you are only 17 yrs old. I'm not sure at what age the USMC takes a guy, but I do know that decisions made at 17 can be regretted at 19yrs.

As some other posters have said, I don't think that the SDA church has an official stand on military service, but I think if I were you I would take it to God in prayer and allow Him to lead your decision.

I had 2 uncles' who served in WW2 and they both had to kill. Both NEVER got over it. There is something in the human heart that abhors taking the life of another.

C78--I'll be praying for you too, for God to lead you. You are younger than my oldest grandson, so I kind of feel protective of you. I just hope you are safe and SOUND!