SDA: Satan Will Die for Your Sins

Dale

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Christianity has always taught that Jesus died for our sins, yours, mine and everyone's, on the cross. Ellen White, founding prophetess of the Seventh Day Adventists, had some unconventional ideas. While she sometimes taught that Jesus died for our sins, she has also taught that Satan will be made to die for the same sins. She associates this belief with the Old Testament scapegoat. Satan will be the final scapegoat. One characteristic of Ellen White is that she mentions Satan almost as often as she mentions God.

Ellen White:
"Since Satan is the originator of sin, the direct instigator of all the sins that caused the death of the Son of God, justice demands that Satan shall suffer the final punishment. Christ's work for the redemption of men and the purification of the universe from sin will be closed by the removal of sin from the heavenly sanctuary and the placing of these sins upon Satan, who will bear the final penalty. So in the typical service, the yearly round of ministration closed with the purification of the sanctuary, and the confessing of the sins on the head of the scapegoat."

This quote is from Patriarchs and Prophets, Chapter 30: The Tabernacle and its Services. (Kindle Location 5720-5725) Patriarchs and Prophets is the first of five books which are part of the Conflict of Ages series, or Conflict of Ages Collection.

Ellen White, Conflict of Ages Collection:
Patriarchs and Prophets, Prophets and Kings, The Desire of Ages, The Acts of the Apostles,
The Great Controversy

Ellen White: "Now they are eternally secure from the tempter's devices. Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin."

While this quote doesn't refer to Satan by name, it calls him the "originator of sin," which is clear enough. It also doesn't mention Satan receiving the "penalty," but it does say that Satan will receive the sins of the redeemed. The quote is from Prophets and Kings, Chapter 47: Joshua and the Angel. (Kindle Location 18418)

Ellen White: "When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scapegoat. When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, He will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty. The scapegoat was sent away into a land not inhabited, never to come again into the congregation of Israel. So will Satan be forever banished from the presence of God and His people, and he will be blotted from existence in the final destruction of sin and sinners."

Ellen White doesn't believe in hell. Her statement that Satan "will be blotted from existence" reflects this view, that instead of being cast into an eternal hell, Satan and his followers will be destroyed body and soul. This quote is from the last book of the series, The Great Controversy, Chapter 23: What is the Sanctuary? (Kindle location 44929-44934)

Earlier in the same chapter there is an indirect reference to this process, which tells us that sins are transferred to "the heavenly sanctuary."

Ellen White: "As anciently the sins of the people were by faith placed upon the sin offering and through its blood transferred, in figure, to the earthly sanctuary, so in the new covenant the sins of the repentant are by faith placed upon Christ and transferred, in fact, to the heavenly sanctuary."
(Kindle Locations 44918-44920)

Ellen White: "In like manner, when the work of atonement in the heavenly sanctuary has been completed, then in the presence of God and heavenly angels and the hosts of the redeemed the sins of God's people will be placed upon Satan; he will be declared guilty of all the evil which he has caused them to commit. And as the scapegoat was sent away into a land not inhabited, so Satan will be banished to the desolate earth, an uninhabited and dreary wilderness."

This quote is from The Great Controversy, Chapter 41: Desolation of the Earth (Kindle Locations 48,351-48,356)

Ellen White: "The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit."

This quote is from the last chapter of the last book of the series. It is from The Great Controversy, Chapter 42: The Controversy Ended (Kindle Location 48495-48501)

This notion that Satan will specifically suffer for the sins he has tempted mortals to commit is not the only novel idea in Ellen White.

Ellen White: "When Christ died, the destruction of Satan was made certain."

This quote is from Patriarchs and Prophets, Chapter 4: The Plan of Redemption. (Kindle Location 1286)

I would have thought that the destruction of Satan was certain when he rebelled and was thrown out of heaven.
 
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Symph

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Well, what a surprise stumbling upon you here... :sorry:

I suppose it could make sense. Will Satan die permanently or only temporarily like Jesus did?
Do we know each other? And it was an honest question, I'm trying to figure out how to come at this cause like, if he's just sharing information then it's just fascinating, if he believes it, I need to read it again lol You look kinda familiar actually, like from my early youtube days or something.
 
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Dale

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Satan will never die but will be eternally punished in the lake of fire. Jesus will never die "in the Spirit" but will be eternally rewarding to the ones who love Him.


Quite right, but it amazing how many ways people have found to misunderstand this.
 
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Symph

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No, I am not SDA and I do not believe "this stuff."

I am trying to show that Ellen White goes far beyond the Bible in her claims.
I'm SO glad I asked, I started to like be like "Ummm. so WHAT, why would you believe..." and then I was like "wait... maybe he's just sharing information, let's check" glad I checked, yes interesting indeed :)
 
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Dale

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A point that is related to Ellen White's belief about Satan's end is her notion that sin can be transferred. To EW, sin isn't forgiven, it is transferred. In her interpretation of the story of David and Bathsheba, their first child dies because David was under a Divine sentence of death but David's sin was transferred to the child. I've certainly never heard a minister say anything like that.


"The sentence of death was transferred from David to the child of his sin. Thus the king was given opportunity for repentance; while to him the suffering and death of the child, as a part of his punishment, was far more bitter than his own death could have been."

--Ellen White, Patriarchs and Prophets, Chapter 71: David's Sin and Repentance, Kindle Location 11560-11561
 
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bbbbbbb

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A point that is related to Ellen White's belief about Satan's end is her notion that sin can be transferred. To EW, sin isn't forgiven, it is transferred. In her interpretation of the story of David and Bathsheba, their first child dies because David was under a Divine sentence of death but David's sin was transferred to the child. I've certainly never heard a minister say anything like that.

"The sentence of death was transferred from David to the child of his sin. Thus the king was given opportunity for repentance; while to him the suffering and death of the child, as a part of his punishment, was far more bitter than his own death could have been."

--Ellen White, Patriarchs and Prophets, Chapter 71: David's Sin and Repentance, Kindle Location 11560-11561

That borderline heresy. I wonder what she said about this?

Psalm 103:8 The Lord is compassionate and gracious,
Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness.
9 He will not always strive with us,
Nor will He keep His anger forever.
10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins,
Nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
So great is His lovingkindness toward those who fear Him.
12 As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
 
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AvaLynn

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Satan will never die but will be eternally punished in the lake of fire. Jesus will never die "in the Spirit" but will be eternally rewarding to the ones who love Him.

Quite right, but it amazing how many ways people have found to misunderstand this.



I'm SDA and I don't believe that the Bible tells us that the lost people will burn for eternity in hell. God will burn up the sinners and all that is left will be their ashes. You can choose to believe in a God who would savagely burn sinners in torment forever, but I believe in a just God who will blot them from existence, along with Satan. The Bible no where mentions an eternal hell.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I'm SDA and I don't believe that the Bible tells us that the lost people will burn for eternity in hell. God will burn up the sinners and all that is left will be their ashes. You can choose to believe in a God who would savagely burn sinners in torment forever, but I believe in a just God who will blot them from existence, along with Satan. The Bible no where mentions an eternal hell.

Well you can take that matter up with Jesus Christ, who said,

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, 44 [where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.] 45 If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell, 46 [where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.] 47 If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, 48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
 
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Hall

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I'm SDA and I don't believe that the Bible tells us that the lost people will burn for eternity in hell. God will burn up the sinners and all that is left will be their ashes. You can choose to believe in a God who would savagely burn sinners in torment forever, but I believe in a just God who will blot them from existence, along with Satan. The Bible no where mentions an eternal hell.
He is a just God.
 
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Dale

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I'm SDA and I don't believe that the Bible tells us that the lost people will burn for eternity in hell. God will burn up the sinners and all that is left will be their ashes. You can choose to believe in a God who would savagely burn sinners in torment forever, but I believe in a just God who will blot them from existence, along with Satan. The Bible no where mentions an eternal hell.


AvaLynn, welcome and thanks for your interest.

Here is what I have found out about how Ellen White rejected belief in the soul and in hell.


In Chapter 5 of Ellen White's Life Sketches: Separation from the Church:

I listened to these new ideas with an intense and painful interest. When alone with my mother, I inquired if she really believed that the soul was not immortal. Her reply was, that she feared we had been in error on that subject, as well as upon some others. “But, mother,” said I, “do you really believe that the soul sleeps in the grave until the resurrection? Do you think that the Christian, when he dies, does not go immediately to heaven, nor the sinner to hell?” She answered: “The Bible gives us no proof that there is an eternally burning hell. If there is such a place, it should be mentioned in the Sacred Book.” “Why, mother!” cried I, in astonishment, “this is strange talk for you! If you believe this strange theory, do not let any one know of it; for I fear that sinners would gather security from this belief, and never desire to seek the Lord.” “If this is sound Bible truth,” she replied, “instead of preventing the salvation of sinners, it will be the means of winning them to Christ. If the love of God will not induce the rebel to yield, the terrors of an eternal hell will not drive him to repentance. Besides, it does not seem a proper way to win souls to Jesus by appealing to one of the lowest attributes of the mind,—abject fear. The love of Jesus attracts; it will subdue the hardest heart.”


--Ellen G. White . Life Sketches of Ellen G. White (Kindle Locations 515-516). Copyright © 2010, Ellen G. White Estate, Inc.. Kindle Edition.


EW left the Methodist Church, and all other established churches of the time, over the issue of hell, when she decided that she did not believe in it. She cites no Scripture for this belief. She rejected belief in a soul apart from the body at the same time she rejected belief in hell. She decides that there is no hell after a conversation with her mother. She gives no vision as evidence for this belief.

Ellen White rejects the immortal soul and hell in Chapter 5: Separation From the Church of Life Sketches but doesn't have her first vision until Chapter 7: My First Vision.

So E. White threw out belief in an eternal hell after talking it over with her mother, with no Scripture to back up her position, or even one of her visions. Her visions started some time later.
 
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Hieronymus

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Well you can take that matter up with Jesus Christ, who said,

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, 44 [where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.] 45 If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell, 46 [where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.] 47 If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, 48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
Aha, but you will die, since the worm(s) and / or the fire will consume you (not you, but the you in the verse).
 
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Dale

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Aha, but you will die, since the worm(s) and / or the fire will consume you (not you, but the you in the verse).

Hieronmymus,

Thanks for taking an interest. Let me quote one of the parables.


19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
--Luke 16: 19-31 NIV

This is a New Testament passage that causes a great deal of trouble for SDA's. It is a parable of Jesus. Ellen White says that immortality of the soul is a false doctrine. The soul doesn't exist, there is only "soul sleep" until the Resurrection. Contrary to Ellen White's view, Jesus shows the soul of "the rich man" going to "Hades" where he experiences "torment" with no end in sight.

In Jack Russo's SDA paraphrase of the Bible, this passage is rewritten beyond recognition because it cannot be reconciled with EW's teaching.
 
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Hieronymus

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Hieronmymus,

Thanks for taking an interest. Let me quote one of the parables.


19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
--Luke 16: 19-31 NIV

This is a New Testament passage that causes a great deal of trouble for SDA's. It is a parable of Jesus. Ellen White says that immortality of the soul is a false doctrine. The soul doesn't exist, there is only "soul sleep" until the Resurrection. Contrary to Ellen White's view, Jesus shows the soul of "the rich man" going to "Hades" where he experiences "torment" with no end in sight.

In Jack Russo's SDA paraphrase of the Bible, this passage is rewritten beyond recognition because it cannot be reconciled with EW's teaching.
I believe it's as you say, a parable, not to be taken literally / as a real situation.
So i don't see too many problems here.
And to be honest, i do see a possible parallel with the 'scapegoat' and satan, who will be cast down to earth, which resembles the wilderniss.
But that's where the parallel ends i.m.o.
Satan will eventually perish in the lake of fire too, along with death.
Eternal torment serves no purpose, has no goal, and implies God's Wrath is never satisfied and justice is never done.
I don't believe that, i.m.o. it's contradictory to what Scripture portrays.
 
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