Scriptures that say not all are saved

[Hidden Manna]

Basically we ne to understand what are we saved from and when are we saved. What is the broadway and what is the narrow? What is destruction? What is life?


God Bless

We are saved from the law of sin and death that came through Adam. Bacically separatation from God which is the death Adam died the day he sinned.

What the broadway is to my understanding because Jesus did not say what it was is, the carnal, natural, fleshly ways of man. The narrow way is spiritual and in submission to God's will which leads to life and salvation from the broadway that leads to spiritual death or separation from God.

Jesus is the life and eternal life is knowing the Father.

Concerning destruction it all depends of the context of scripture where it is used.

Spiritual destruction is the result of being separated from God. Because man was created in God's image man remains destroyed from that image through rejecting Christ.

Or destruction in the natural realm may mean when Jerusalem and the old covenant sytem were destroyed in the old heaven and earth in AD70. That ended a covenatal system that kept man separated from God. Mankind here and now since AD70 have the free choice to come into God's presence and have the fullness of the Godhead indwell them through receiving the everlasting gospel through what Christ did for us.

Jesus is the resurrection, way truth and life and we have resurrection life now in Him.

All depends of the context of scripture where it is used.

 

[martymonster]

Still waiting for those scriptures!

 

[StudentoftheWord]

Still waiting for those scriptures!

Strange, you would think if someone says that Scriptures that say not all peoplare saved, would even actually address that do. Where are those Scriptures that say that not all are saved? I agree.

 

[martymonster]

Strange, you would think if someone says that Scriptures that say not all peoplare saved, would even actually address that do. Where are those Scriptures that say that not all are saved? I agree.

Do you think it would be a fair thing to assume we won this one?

 

[Hidden Manna]

Do you think it would be a fair thing to assume we won this one?

You can say that if that makes you feel your right about universalism. But the one you really lost is in your view.

It was my mistake to give the the topic that tile. I should have make it Scriptures that mean not all are saved.

 

[martymonster]

You can say that if that makes you feel your right about universalism. But the one you really lost is in your view.

It was my mistake to give the the topic that tile. I should have make it Scriptures that mean not all are saved.

Wow you seem to assume that you are the wise one and we are the foolish.

You give youself ample pats on the back by suggesting that you were wise enough to avoid the pit falls of unsound doctrine while we were foolish enough to fall right into them.

So Hidden Manna, where does this wisdom of yours come from?

does it come from years of studying the orthodox veiw of Christianity?

We've all done that.

Did you decied to be wise and prudent?

Who doesn't think they are doing that!

does it come from the Lord Hidden, and if so why did He decied to preseve you and not us?

We know most if not all the orthodox views, on account of most of us used to be orthodox, but you have no idea what UR is about, so how can you possibly proclaim it to be wrong?

Especially when you don't present any evidence!

 

[Soul Searcher]

You can say that if that makes you feel your right about universalism. But the one you really lost is in your view.

It was my mistake to give the the topic that tile. I should have make it Scriptures that mean not all are saved.

I have not saw any posted that mean not all are saved either. Me thinks you have missunderstood the meaning of the scriptures.

 

[StudentoftheWord]

You can say that if that makes you feel your right about universalism. But the one you really lost is in your view.

Are you grounded in reality?

I don't know how it is done in your country but in Canada, if you decide to sue someone, you have charge against the defendent and then you must prove your case. So if you make a charge, you need to have your evidence, witnesses, propositions, inferences, and conclusions ready.

If you make a charge and you cannot prove your case, it is thrown out of court. Not only that, but because you were the one who brought the frivilous case before the court, you must pay all the court costs and are fined for wasting the people's time.

From the witness, evidence, propositions, and inference and conclusions, you failed to make your course.

It was my mistake to give the the topic that tile. I should have make it Scriptures that mean not all are saved.

We still have not seen a scripture that means not all are saved from you, Hidden Manna. That is why you lost your case. The others who came to help out, also lost the case for you because they had no support either.

Now, here is a few questions for you. What does it mean when you have a belief that has no proof or support but your own opinions? Would you say it has no foundation? If it has no foundation, would you say that you have a bottomless pit? What from Scripture comes from a bottomless pit?

 

[Hidden Manna]

What an absolute steaming pile!

The scriptures are plain?

The scriptures are never plain and can never be taken at face value or one will be lead into grave error and misunderstanding as you have have so pointedly shown in your post!

Here is God's word that you call an absolute steaming pile. I hate to think of what kind of steaming pile you are referring to.


"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 "For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14 ).

"For many are called, but few are chosen, "(Matt. 22:14 ).

"And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23 And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved? " And He said to them, 24 "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 "Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27 ).

"And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28 for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27 ).

John 25 " These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father.

 

[Hidden Manna]

I agree that up until now few have been saved comparitively, but I believe a very large percentage will turn to christ when the spirit of god comes down like the rain at the end times as prophesised by Joel.

To understand the “last days” and show how it could be possible, they were fulfilled in the last days of the Old Covenant there are three very important Biblical truths that must be established. First, the years from the cross to the desolation of Jewish system in Jerusalem in the A.D. 70 is the last days of the covenant of the law. It is stated time and again that the New Testament was written in the final years of the “world that then was,” otherwise known as the Old Covenant or Old Testament era (Heb. 1:2). This is the period of the “last days”, or “end of the age,” which saw its fulfillment.

By presenting Scripture in such a way, as to allow it to speak for itself, we will see that the New Testament is a collection of books written in the “last days” of the Old Covenant, all of which display the ‘earnest expectation’ of the believers that the last days would be in their lifetimes.

Second, The faithfulness of God. Remember, God is faithful, II Peter 3:9. “God is not a man that he should lie,” Numbers 23:19. The faithfulness of God not only involves doing WHAT has been promised, it means doing it WHEN IT WAS PROMISED

Third, The time statements in the Bible. In Daniel 10-12 is a vision encompassing a period of time from 536 BC to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD; about 600 years. Two times in this text Daniel was told “the appointed time is long” and “the vision refers to many days to come” (10:1,14). Remember, this vision was relayed to Daniel from God. While God is not bound by time, he was communicating to man who is bound to time. God called this 600 year period of time “long;” he said it involved “many days.” God can most assuredly tell time and read a calendar!

Before we begin our study on the last days let me first say that while God is not bound by time like man when God speaks to man He speaks in a language that man can understand, thus when something is said to happens “soon” in man’s time God is recognized as “faithful and true” to His promise when it is fulfilled. God gives us an illustrations of His “true faithfulness” in the event of the birth of Isaac. Isaac was born at the set time of which God promised Abraham (see Genesis 18:13-14; 21:1-3)

The Bible says it is inspired, II Timothy 3:16. The original word translated “inspired” literally means “God breathed.” The thought of the Bible being from God suggests that since God is perfect or infallible, and the Bible is from Him it ought to be infallible as well. Specifically, if the Bible made a promise that something would happen within a specified time frame, if that event did not happen when and as promised the Bible’s claim to inspiration falls.

It is Jehovah himself that gave the criteria for determining whether a prophet was true or false; if a prophet’s prediction did not come true (within the time the prophet said it would) he was a false prophet, (see Deuteronomy 18:19-22) If God does not keep the when part of his promises, he has not kept his promise! The inspiration of the scriptures demands complete fulfillment of every aspect of God’s promises.

God’s years are endless; “from everlasting to everlasting thou art God” Psalms 90:2. Isaiah calls Jehovah “the Father of eternity” 9:6-9. However when God communicate with man, he uses (time statements) that man can understand. What are time statements?
The time statements are how “God communicates with man in terms of Time.” The time statements are literal imminent statements as seen in (Genesis 18:13-14; 21:1-3) The time statements refer to soon events of Jewish importance.

In Ezekiel 7, God through Ezekiel said the Day of the Lord was at hand. The Day of the Lord in this context was when God used Babylon to punish Israel for her sin. This is the concept of the Day of the Lord; it is not an “end of time” idea. It is when God used a nation to punish another as it related to his chosen people. In chapter 11 Israel responded to the threat of coming judgment. They insisted that although Ezekiel said it was at hand it was really not. It was time to build houses, not worry about judgment. One can almost hear some of those people: “Well, yes, Ezekiel has said the Day of the Lord is at hand, but after all, ‘one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day,’ Psalms 90:4”

When Israel “elasticized” God’s words of imminence into relativity, ambiguity and meaning-less-ness, God responded. In Ezekiel 12:21ff, [Please, take the time to get your Bible and read it for yourself!] Adonai told Ezekiel to tell Israel that her days of changing the time for his predictions were over. He had said judgment was at hand; Israel said it was not at hand. Jehovah would not tolerate it.

Ezekiel was instructed to tell Israel that in that generation judgment would fall just as Jehovah had indicated when he said it was at hand. [Have you read those verses for yourself yet? If not, why not do it right now and see for yourself that what we are saying is true?] What we have then, is an example of man saying that while God had said something was imminent it really was not; it was for a long time off. We have God’s response; when God said “at hand” he meant “at hand!” He did not mean hundreds or thousands of years; he meant “soon!” God, Himself rebukes this interpretation of His time statements. “God employed the language of humanity to communicate His message in the Bible to humanity in humanity’s own time statements.

Another example of man changing the meaning of God’s time words is in Amos. God warned Israel the time had come for her to be judged, 8:2-3. In spite of the warnings Israel “put far off the evil day.” In spite of God’s warning that judgment was at hand they insisted “All things continue as they were,” They refused to believe God meant “the end has come.” As a result God said “Woe” to them for putting of His words! 6:3. As we have just seen if God do not keep the when part of the time statements then He has not kept his promise! Jehovah would not tolerate this interpretation of His time statements. He rebukes it Himself in scripture.

Most honest students of the Bible already realize that the New Testament is full of time statements that point to an imminent last days of the Old Covenant. Once Scripture is allowed to speak for itself, one cannot honestly deny the overwhelming amount of Scripture passages which declare that the last day prophecies were to “shortly come to pass.” By listing these numerous verses, we can see that the first century saints believed they were living in the last days of the Old Covenant. Peter specifies. “Who (Christ) verily was fore ordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” (1 Peter 1:20)

The apostle John made a similar statement: 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. Here, the same word “eschatos” is used for “last.” However, the Greek word for “time” is slightly different, though very related: it is the Greek word “hora” defined by Strong’s as: 5610. hora, ho’-rah; appar. a prim. word; an “hour” (lit. or fig.):--day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.

John believed they were in the last or farthest season or hour of the Jewish age.

Peter specifies the range of this period, commonly called the “last days,” in his sermon in Acts 2:16-21. He declares that, it was fulfilling the prophecy of (Joel 2:28-32). What is significant about Peter’s statement is that he was claiming that they were in the last days. The writer of Hebrews expressed this identical sentiment as he began his discourse comparing the fading Old Covenant with the Everlasting New Covenant:

Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, {2} Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Jesus was manifested, not at the beginning, or start of the last days but “during the last days.” The period between A.D. 30 and 70 is, as the apostle Peter describes it, “these last times” (1 Peter 1:20).

“Hath in these last days” the writer confirms. Without any speculation those in the first century believed they were in the last days. Certainly the writers of the New Testament were very aware of those passages we have studied involving the last days of Judah and Jerusalem. Therefore it is safe and logical to say that the New Testament writers believed that they were in the last days of the Jewish age.

The apostle John made this time statement: 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. Here, the same word “eschatos” is used for “last.” However, the Greek word for “time” is slightly different, though very related: it is the Greek word “hora” defined by Strong’s as: 5610. hora, ho’-rah; appar. a prim. word; an “hour” (lit. or fig.):--day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.

John believed they were in the last or farthest season or hour of the Jewish age. Paul believed the same:

Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. There are two different Greek words used here translated as “time.” In the first cause Paul says “knowing the time.” The Greek word here is “2540. kairos, kahee-ros’; of uncert. affin.; an occasion, i.e. set or proper time:--X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Comp. G5550.” Strong’s.

In the second clause Paul uses the phrase “high time.” “High time” is the same Greek word used in first John. Both Paul and John firmly believed that they were in the last time or days of the Jewish age. Paul believed they were living in the end of the Jewish age as well: 1 Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the age are come.

Paul was describing the history of the Jews and their rebellion against God in the wilderness. We should not ignore the fact that Paul, in discussing the ancient rebellion which took place in the wilderness says it was written for their admonition, upon whom the ends of the age are come.

New consider the time statements of James as he addressed the unbelieving Jews: James 5:1-4 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Clearly James taught that these men were in the last days.

Jude, in describing the same group of unbelieving Jews, also speaks of this period, although with a different phrase: But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. (Jude 1:17-18)

The word “time” is the Greek word chronos, defined by Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance as: 5550. chronos, khron’-os; a space of time. The word “last” is defined as: 2078. eschatos, es’-khat-os; a superl. prob. from G2192 (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time):--ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost. Certainly we can conclude from Jude that they were in the farthest or uttermost space of time of the Jewish age. They were in the last days of the Jewish state.

The impression of the Apostles is the nearness of ‘the end’ is worthy of notice that there is a marked gradation in the language of the different epistles. Going from know that in the last days perilous times will come To the last times and the last times became the last days, and the last days become the last hour [escath wra esti]. The period of expectation and delay was now over and the decisive moment was at hand. “And that, knowing the time.. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. (“Romans 13:11-12)

There are many other passages that could be used to support the fact that the first-century believers and particularly the apostles believed unanimously that they were in the end of the Jewish age or the last days of the Jewish age. The fact is that anytime Scripture uses the phase “last days” it means, a period from 30-70 AD. This was the period during which the Apostles were preaching and writing, the “last days” of Old Covenant Israel before it was forever destroyed in the destruction of the Temple (and the Old Covenant sacrificial system) not the end of the world or physical universe.

 

[Charlie V]

"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 "For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14 ).

"And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23 And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved? " And He said to them, 24 "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 "Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27 ).

http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/22.html

Question:
In Luke 13:23-30, Jesus was asked if only a few would be saved. He said to strive to enter into the narrow gate, for many would try and not be able.


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Answer: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Christ came, not to the gentiles (the world population in general), but to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt. 15:24). These were already God’s chosen covenant people—all of whom will finally be saved, according to Paul (Romans 11:26). Bear in mind that these covenant people are the ones Christ is talking to on this occasion.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So, the Lord is not here contradicting promises He has made elsewhere by saying that only a few will ever be saved. Otherwise John 12:32 would have quoted Him as saying, “If I be lifted up, I will draw only a few people to Myself.” Furthermore, 1 Corinthians 15:22 would say, “In Adam all die; in Christ only a few will be made alive.” So Luke 13:23-30 is not about whether Christ will eventually reap the full harvest of human souls He paid for with His own blood—that is, how many will finally be saved (Gen. 22:17-19, Romans 4:13, also note carefully Romans 11:15-16,32,36).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Here He is talking about being saved during this dispensation to occupy a rulership role in His love-kingdom—to act as co-laborers, co-restorers with Him in His world-harvest field (John 4:34-38). Only those who enter the narrow gate of self-denial, allowing Christ to perfect them in love and holiness can qualify to minister to the world in this era as well as the Kingdom Millennial Age to come. These will shine as lights set on a hill (Matt. 5:14; Ps. 48). They will serve as kings and priests—a holy nation, a royal priesthood—to reflect God’s character to the world (1 Pet. 2:9-12). Many are called to this high privilege, but few respond. Such as refuse will find themselves in a place of outer darkness—not “forever,” but for a season (Matt. 25:14-30). This describes exactly what happened to many Jews when Jerusalem was crushed under Rome’s armies in 70 AD—which Christ prophesied in Matthew 24 and 25.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nothing is mentioned about eternity in this passage and others which are similar to it. Read the best-seller The Final Quest, by Rick Joyner. Also contact Arthur Eedle (see Suggested Reading List) for his excellent articles: “Jesus—Firstborn of Every Creature” and “Millennial Kings and Priests.” This Luke 13 passage has to do with attaining to a “better resurrection,” being made qualified to “rule over cities” in the Millennial age (Heb. 11:35, Phil. 3:10-11, also compare Luke 19:12-27 and Ps. 78:34). The current theology that insists that only the priesthood people (the church) will ever be saved leaves the church with no one to “reign over” in the Millennium! Again, the church is not the only born of God’s new creation in Christ. It is the first born, co-redeemer, “called out” company. But “called out” for what? Review Colossians 1:18 and also study Acts 15:15-17 and Amos 9:11-12.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Charles Slagle[/FONT]

http://tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]THE STRAIT GATE
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The Strait Gate" and the "Few saved" are thought by many to indicate the final salvation of only a portion of the human family. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The question was asked by some one (Luke xiii:23 and Matt. vii:13,14): "Lord, are there few that be saved? and he answered: "Strive to enter in at the strait gate; for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, open unto us, and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are; then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]No intelligent reader suposes this language literal--that there is a gate at which men knock, after death, for admission into heaven. The Kingdom of God is Christ's reign on earth, and its gate signifies entrance into it. "The Kingdom of God," "Kingdom of Heaven," etc., is always in this world.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And every careful reader will see that the language is entirely confined to the present.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Lord, are there few that be 'saved'?" The literal rendering is: "Are those being saved few?" The question relates entirely to the number then accepting Christianity. But inasmuch as all partialist Christians believe that the great mass--all but a small minority of mankind--will be finally saved, it is very inconsistent for any one thus believing to apply this language to man's final condition. "Are there few that are now being saved?" is the literal rendering of the question From what? Not from endless torment, but from certain evil consequences in this world.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And the answer to Jesus shows that the application was confined to those to whom he was speaking.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Lord" (they say) "we have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The words apply entirely to those who had heard him speak in their streets, namely the Jews, whose advantages were about to be taken away, and given to the Gentiles, who were to enter the kingdom by faith, with faithful Abraham, while they were thrust out. The weeping and gnashing of teeth represents their chagrin and rage at their lot, despising the Gentiles as they did.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This same subject is thus treated in Matt. vii:13,14.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Enter ye in at the strait gate, for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because, strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As we just said, it is entirely inconsistent for any advocate of endless punishment to quote this language in support of that doctrine, inasmuch as all such believers now teach that the great majority of souls will be finally saved, while only the small minority will be forever lost. The Savior referred, by the Strait Gate, to the exacting nature of his religion. The road was narrow, and difficult to follow, and but few then followed it, while the many avoided it, and pursued the broad road of error and sin. The words have the same application today, well expressed by good Dr. Watts:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Broad is the road that leads to death,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And thousands walk together there,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But wisdom shows a narrow path,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]With here and there a traveller.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The language teaches that only the few then walked in the narrow way marked out by Christ while the many chose the broader way of wrong. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If we refer the passage to the future world, we cannot excape the conclusion that heaven will only contain a few souls, while the great majority will be damned. It has no reference to the future world whatever, but denotes the few who in our Savior's day went right, while the great multitude went wrong. Dr. A. Clarke says: "Enter in through this strait gate--i.e., of doing to every one as you would he should do unto you; for this alone seems to be the strait gate."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The language in Luke has a more special application to the Jews than that in Matthew, which may be applied to every age since Christ, and to the present. It is as true now as at the time Jesus spoke, that the path of Christian goodness is a difficult one, followed by a comparative few, while the way of wickedness is broad and much travelled. But it will not always be so.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Whoever refers the language to the final condition of the human race must admit that only a few will ever be holy and happy, while the great multitude will be lost. It has no such application, but teaches that at the time Jesus spoke the many went wrong, while only the few chose the way of life.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[Charlie V]

"For many are called, but few are chosen, "(Matt. 22:14 ).

Today, God is again choosing His people, His channel, His instrument. He is choosing the final members of His Royal Priesthood company. Many are called, but few are chosen. We are not choosing Him, He is choosing us. God is making choice of those through whom there will come the complete, the full, the total revelation and manifestation of Jesus Christ, in all of its glory, all of its wisdom, all of its power, all of its authority, all of its might, and all of its salvation, so that all flesh can see the salvation of God and all the ends of the earth the glory of God!

http://www.tentmaker.org/holy-spirit/eby.htm

"And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28 for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27 ).

ROMANS 9:27-28 –

“Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: ‘Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved. For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”’
[NIV]
​

In this passage it is very obvious that the EARTH symbol is being used to refer to the Jewish nation. Only a remnant of the old chosen people would be saved from the coming destruction. Only those who accepted the Christ would be saved.

The Lord did carry out his sentence with speed and finality. He carried it out on EARTH – the place of the people involved in this prophecy. This EARTH was the Jewish nation.
​

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Fulfilled_Prophecy/Ch6.html

 

[Charlie V]

http://www.tentmaker.org/lists/ReconciliationScriptures.html

Mt 18:12,14 What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? Thus it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.

Lk 2:10 And the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which shall be for all the people."

Lk 15:4-7 What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture, and go after the one which is lost, until he finds it? And when [Ed., not if] he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing... I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

Lk 23:34 Jesus said, "Father forgive them; they know not what they do."

[Ed., This incredible request by Jesus, together with His suffering and death on the cross for the sins of the world, becomes the ultimate picture and the eternal symbol of the heart and intention of God toward lost humanity. Furthermore, this declaration of God's ultimate redemptive purposes was made, eternally speaking, from the beginning of time, by "the lamb slain from the foundation of the world"! (Rev 13:8)]​

Jn 1:29 The next day he [John the Baptist] saw Jesus coming to him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

[Ed., "the sin" is in the singular, indicating the complete removal of the "sin principle", or sin itself with all of its consequences, not just the individual acts of sin.]​

Jn 3:17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through Him.

Jn 12:32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.

[Ed., This is as clear a statement on the subject as any in scripture, a promise made by Christ Himself!]​

Acts 3;20-21And that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the times of the restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

Rom 5:18-20 So then as through one transgression [Adam's] there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness [Christ's] there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One, the many will be made righteous. And the Law came in that the transgression might increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more!

[Ed., As J.B. Phillips so succinctly puts it, "Grace is the ruling factor!"]​

Rom 8:19-21 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it in hope, that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Rom 11:15 For if their rejection [i.e., the Jew's rejection of Christ] be the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

Rom 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in; and thus all Israel will be saved.

Rom 11:32,33For God has shut up all in disobedience that He might show mercy to all. Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!

Rom 11;36 For from Him [Christ] and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:11 For as it is written, "As I live", says the Lord, "every knee shall bow to me [ie. repentance], and every tongue shall give praise to God". [ie. worship]

I Cor 3:15 If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire.

I Cor 5:4,5 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [See I Peter 4:6!]

 

[Charlie V]

I Cor 13:8 Love never fails.

[Ed., It bears repeating: "Love never fails!" God is love. His love can not fail! To lose even one would mean that love failed to find and save that one. To lose millions for eternity, as some believe, would mean that love failed miserably and completely! However, His plan, His purpose, His desire, and His nature has always been and always will be love for His creation!]​

I Cor 15:22,28For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive. But each in his own order... [Ed., This phrase is the real key to understanding God's purposes in relation to His time schedule.] "And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, that God may be all in all."

[Ed., Paul sees clearly to the end, and makes this ultimate and most concise declaration of the eternal purposes of God!]​

I Cor 15:54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory."

[Ed., "The last enemy to be destroyed is death" (I Cor 15:26)...This refers to all death, both physical death and spiritual death. Then the only thing that shall remain is...Life!]​

II Cor 5:14,15 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, that they should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

II Cor 5:18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was [Ed., and is] in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the nations by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."

[Ed., According to Paul, then, preaching the reconciliation of all is in fact preaching the gospel.]​

Eph 1:9,10 He make known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth.

Eph 1:22,23 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all.

Eph 3:8-11 To me [Paul]...this grace was given...to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things; in order that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eph 4:5,6 There is...one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

Eph 4:10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.

Phil 2:9-11 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

[Ed., Remember that "No one can say, 'Jesus is Lord,' except by the Holy Spirit." I Cor 12:3]​

Phil 3;21 ...who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Col 1:19-22 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fulness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach.

[Ed., How could Paul state it any more clearly!]​

Col 3:11 Christ is all, and in all.

[Ed., All creation is birthed in Christ; all creation remains in Christ; but not all of creation has been awakened to Christ ("Awake, sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will give thee light." Eph 5:14)]​

I Tim 1:13 Even though I [Paul] was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor, yet I was shown mercy, because I acted ignorantly in unbelief.

[Ed., If the prerequisite for mercy is ignorance and unbelief, then who will fail to qualify?]​

I Tim 1:15Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I [Paul] am foremost.

[Ed., Again, if Paul is the foremost sinner, then hasn't God's plan of redemption been accomplished to the foremost?]​

I Tim 2:5,6 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to be borne at the proper time.

[Ed., An alternate translation reads: "to be testified (lit."witnessed") in due times..."(ie. "each in his own order"...I Cor 15:22)]​

I Tim 4:10It is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

[Ed., Only believers are privileged with an opportunity to escape the coming wrath and experience the fruits of the Spirit and the blessings of the kingdom in this life, as well as in the coming ages.]​

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men.

Heb 1:2In these last days He has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Heb 2:8 For in subjecting all things to him [ie., man], He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him...But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for every one.

Heb 9:26 But now once at the consummation He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

[Ed., Though not yet evident, sin will finally be completely put away, and all creation, which is waiting anxiously for its redemption (Rom 8:19), will be set free!]​

I Pet 2:12 Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may on account of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.

I Pet 3:18-20 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah...

I Pet 4:6 For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that even though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God. (see I Cor 5:5)

[Ed., Peter is still referring to the souls in prison from the days of Noah, whom Christ preached to, presumably following His crucifixion and descension into the "lower parts of the earth", in which He "lead captive a host of captives..." (Ephes 4:8,9). This is a remarkable revelation given to Peter concerning the purpose of God's judgements on mankind in order to bring about his future plans for them to live in the Spirit!]​

II Pet 3:8,9 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing [literally "not purposing", from the Greek: boulema, "predetermined purpose"] that any should perish but for all to come to repentance.

[Ed., His promise is still the original promise given to Abraham, that ..."in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."]​

I John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation [ie., satisfaction or appeasement] for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

I John 4:14 And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Rev 5:13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."

Rev 15:3,4 And they sang the song of Moses... and the song of the Lamb, saying, "Great and marvelous are Thy works, O Lord God, the Almighty; Righteous and true are Thy ways, Thou King of the Nations. Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Thy name? For Thou alone art holy; For all the nations will come and worship before Thee, for Thy righteous acts have been revealed."

[Ed., Thus the original promise given to Abraham in Genesis is once again reiterated in the revelation to John. This is the "great mystery" spoken of by Paul concerning God's eternal, redemptive purpose to reconcile all creation back to Himself. (Eph 1:10; Col 1:20,26) Christ Jesus will finally see the work of His travail come to its full fruition; God's unfathomable love and mercy will be fully displayed to all of creation; and indeed, "at the fulness of times"..."God will be all in all!"​

 

[Charlie V]

I just thought of something..

Some people are very literal in their Biblical interpretation.

Okay, taking the literalist view, here's an easy way to be saved:

It doesn't matter what happens here on Earth. When you die you'll see two gates. A narrow gate and a wide gate. Just go for the narrow gate.

It's all a matter of physically picking the right gate.

It doesn't matter what religion you choose, what you do or don't do in life. Just, when you die, pick the right gate.

No metaphors here.

Charlie

 

[Hidden Manna]

http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/22.html

Question:
In Luke 13:23-30, Jesus was asked if only a few would be saved. He said to strive to enter into the narrow gate, for many would try and not be able.


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Answer: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Christ came, not to the gentiles (the world population in general), but to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt. 15:24). These were already God’s chosen covenant people—all of whom will finally be saved, according to Paul (Romans 11:26). Bear in mind that these covenant people are the ones Christ is talking to on this occasion.[/FONT]

The True Israel of God.
What is the essence of being a true Israelite? It is not the literal fleshly descent from Abraham, but faith in God. “Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.” Galatians 3:6. “For they are not all Israel which are of Israel; neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children… but the children of promise are counted for the seed.” Romans 9:6-8.

The children of promise are those who put their faith in Jesus. “And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise” Galatians 3:29.

Whether they are Jewish or Gentile, God regards only those who have renewed hearts as true Israelites. “For he is not a Jew which is one outwardly, nor is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, and not in the letter’ whose praise is not from men but from God.” Romans 2:28,29, NKJV. “For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.” Philippians 3:3, NKJV

God has a special covenant with those who are true, spiritual Israelites. “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel… says the Lord, ‘I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor and none his brother saying, “Know the Lord,” for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds, I will remember no more.” Hebrews 8:10-12. Compare with Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:26-28.

I can see how these things would be hard to understand if a person was apart of Abraham’s physical lineage. But I cannot understand how these things became so hard to understand to God’s true Israel? It seems like one of the hardest things to do is to tell Christians the Bible means what it says.

 

[Charlie V]

It seems like one of the hardest things to do is to tell Christians the Bible means what it says.

I know! Tell me about it!

Like when it says Christ is the "savior of the world," when it says his coming was "good news of great joy for all people," when it says he's the "ransom for all," and God "will have all people to be saved," and "in Christ, all shall be made alive," and so on and so on..

It's so hard to tell Christians the Bible means what it says when it says all are saved!

Charlie

 

[Hidden Manna]

I just thought of something..

Some people are very literal in their Biblical interpretation.

Okay, taking the literalist view, here's an easy way to be saved:

It doesn't matter what happens here on Earth. When you die you'll see two gates. A narrow gate and a wide gate. Just go for the narrow gate.

It's all a matter of physically picking the right gate.

It doesn't matter what religion you choose, what you do or don't do in life. Just, when you die, pick the right gate.

No metaphors here.

Charlie

There are some pretty powerful words from Jesus that says differently then you do. I will stick with what Jesus said and abide in His word, not your intrepetation of it.

Jesus says it very plain and easy to understand and if all are saved all get to enter into the gates to the city, but Jesus does not say that.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. [wash my mouth] 15 But outside [are] dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. [wash my mouth] 16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star." [wash my mouth] 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. [wash my mouth] 18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; [wash my mouth] 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

where does Jesus say that those who God shall take away his part from the Book of Life are saved and have life. Or do these saved one never get life but they are saved.

Universalism's ultimate conclusion is confusion

 

[Charlie V]

Universalism's ultimate conclusion is confusion

I'm sorry, but you have contradicted the list of scriptures I have presented.

The best you can prove in this manner is that the Bible is contradictory, and therefore false.

You have to debunk the list of passages that clearly demonstrate that all are saved.

You also have to debunk the Truth of the Holy Spirit.

I know you will never do that, because Christ doesn't lie, and Christ's truth is universal salvation.

But until you do, all you can prove is that the Bible is contradictory, and therefore false.

If you want the truth of the answer to those questions, and explainations for those passages, you can look it up here.

www.tentmaker.org

Or, you can listen to those that make the Bible false by making it contradictory and denying the passages that prove the universal salvation of God through Christ.

Charlie

 

[Charlie V]

And, by the way..

"Outside are dogs?"

What did dogs do?

As a lover of canines from large German Shepherds down to toy Poodles and every Dalmatian, Golden Retriever and Beagle in between, I have strenuous objection to the doctrine of God's eternal torment of dogs, just because they're dogs.

Charlie