Scripture says

[cygnusx1]

Scripture says we are chosen for salvation and some Christians openly say this is FALSE !

 

[gmm4j]

Are you going to present the Scripture?

 

[cygnusx1]

Why don't you know it ?

Or are you one who just doesn't believe it ?

 

[gmm4j]

Why don't you know it ?

Or are you one who just doesn't believe it ?

You're the one who created the thread "Scripture Says". Just sayin'.

 

[ptomwebster]

Scripture says we are chosen for salvation ...

Where?

 

[cygnusx1]

Here

Thessalonians 2:13 "But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation ...."

 

[Arcoe]

Here

Thessalonians 2:13 "But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation ...."

This is not talking about the beginning of the world. We have two beginnings, an effectual beginning and a potential beginning. The beginning Paul is using here is when he 'began' to write this letter; this is the effectual beginning. It was then they were chosen for salvation.

The potential beginning, before the foundation of the world, had nothing to do with salvation, but had to do with those chosen being holy and blameless.

Hey, I see why some have to have 'two' of most everything. It's easier to confirm one's beliefs. So I made up 'two' beginnings, just as others do. It doesn't matter if it's in the word or not. How in the world can I convince myself I am right, except I add something to make it so.

Now before anyone flames, I was writing in parody. I am not serious about 'two' beginnings, just showing that we don't need to add anything to the word. Let the word direct your beliefs, and not your beliefs direct the word.

 

[cygnusx1]

When were we chosen ? When Paul began writing the letter ? Talk about clutching at straws !

Ephesians 1 tells us before the foundation of the world we were chosen in Him , Thess tells us we were chosen to salvation and men have spent centuries denying it !

 

[gmm4j]

Here

Thessalonians 2:13 "But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation ...."

1 Thess 3:10
Night and day we pray most earnestly that we may see you again and supply what is lacking in your faith.

1 Thess 5:9
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 1:10-12
10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. 12 With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling, and that by his powerhe may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.


2 Thess 2:13,14
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

He chose people to be saved through belief. He did not choose to save them through works or natural lineage.

 

[cygnusx1]

1 Thess 3:10
Night and day we pray most earnestly that we may see you again and supply what is lacking in your faith.

1 Thess 5:9
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 1:10-12
10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. 12 With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling, and that by his powerhe may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.


2 Thess 2:13,14
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

He chose people to be saved through belief. He did not choose to save them through works or natural lineage.

You do realise believing is a work !

We were chosen to salvation before time began

 

[gmm4j]

You do realise believing is a work !

We were chosen to salvation before time began

We were chosen to salvation through belief before time began and belief is not considered a work. Belief simply receives the Work that was completed in Christ (in time), which was also completed before time began in God.

 

[dennis1777]

Belief may be considered somewhat of work when we wrestle with doubt or when the evil one plants contradictory ideas in the intellect. The real work is acting on our belief when it means things like we may lose friends, deny ourselves and make sacrifices that it prompts us to.

 

[gmm4j]

Belief may be considered somewhat of work when we wrestle with doubt or when the evil one plants contradictory ideas in the intellect. The real work is acting on our belief when it means things like we may lose friends, deny ourselves and make sacrifices that it prompts us to.

It is God who does not consider belief/faith a work.

Rom 4:4-6
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Blessings!

 

[dennis1777]

It is God who does not consider belief/faith a work.

Rom 4:4-6
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Blessings!

I am not taking about getting blessed for my works. Simply that there is an active part to faith and that it can be challenging.

Double blessings with chocolate ice-cream on top

 

[cygnusx1]

Belief may be considered somewhat of work when we wrestle with doubt or when the evil one plants contradictory ideas in the intellect. The real work is acting on our belief when it means things like we may lose friends, deny ourselves and make sacrifices that it prompts us to.

You are right faith is a work , just because some get confused by a seeming contradiction in scripture doesn't overturn the plain word of God .

Proposition 1 Faith is a work

Proposition 2 we are saved by faith not by works

Most will see this as a contradiction , with no way out of a conundrum they will deny one or the other text , as if there is no alternative .......

 

[dennis1777]

You are right faith is a work , just because some get confused by a seeming contradiction in scripture doesn't overturn the plain word of God .

Proposition 1 Faith is a work

Proposition 2 we are saved by faith not by works

Most will see this as a contradiction , with no way out of a conundrum they will deny one or the other text , as if there is no alternative .......

well If faith was enough then why would the Lord say "It is not those that say Lord, Lord (having faith) that will get into the kingdom but those that do the will of my Father in heaven".

Also:

Matthew 25:31-46

New International Version (NIV)

The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

So if we have faith we also need to exercise it and do the 'Work". Having faith itself is not a work it is grace and gift. But we need to exercise it.

 

[JackSparrow]

well If faith was enough then why would the Lord say "It is not those that say Lord, Lord (having faith) that will get into the kingdom but those that do the will of my Father in heaven".

Also:

Matthew 25:31-46

New International Version (NIV)

The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

So if we have faith we also need to exercise it and do the 'Work". Having faith itself is not a work it is grace and gift. But we need to exercise it.

Hi Dennis

Would you say that if we do not exercise it we can lose it ?

 

[dennis1777]

Hi Dennis

Would you say that if we do not exercise it we can lose it ?

I honestly don't even know how to have faith without in some way expressing it in word and deed to be honest. But if you say you believe in God and all his teaching and do not act any of them out something just isn't right.

 

[cygnusx1]

Faith is not enough that's why James writes warning of a desperate need for works to prove the quality of faith

 

[spider28x]

John 15 talks bout this .n have lots of answer to for this topic. Faith n deeds