Scripture on Women's rights and invalidating Scripture

[Universal Love]

Im seen groups take the writings.in Timothy about women very seriously. Scripture such as:

But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Timothy 2:12 NASB

Have been taken to mean that women should not be pastor's and that they are completely subordinate to men.

I have seen other claim that this is just their culture at the time. Unfortunately, I've seen these same groups state that not believing this verses means you don't believe it to be divinely inspired. Which of course calls into question the entire Bible.

So, what are your thoughts, does this cause woman to take a back seat in Christian culture? Does not following this go against God's order? Does not believing this scripture to be more than opinion call into question more scripture?

 

[RDKirk]

Im seen groups take the writings.in Timothy about women very seriously. Scripture such as:

But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Timothy 2:12 NASB

Have been taken to mean that women should not be pastor's and that they are completely subordinate to men.

I have seen other claim that this is just their culture at the time. Unfortunately, I've seen these same groups state that not believing this verses means you don't believe it to be divinely inspired. Which of course calls into question the entire Bible.

So, what are your thoughts, does this cause woman to take a back seat in Christian culture? Does not following this go against God's order? Does not believing this scripture to be more than opinion call into question more scripture?

This is the uncompromised principle of the Lord:

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

This is similar to the uncompromised principle of the Lord regarding marriage, which is that there should be no divorce.

But, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard."

Men's hearts are hard. We are in a world of sin, and it's not the mission of the Body of Christ to fix the world.

In Paul's time and understanding, "teaching" was the relationship of disciple to master. The master had complete authority over the disciple, like this:

"All of you disciples, go into town and get me some food. I'll sit here at this well and talk to this woman. "

Or:

"All of you disciples, go into town and get me a donkey to ride. Then walk the donkey back to me. I'll ride it while you walk behind me."

Or:

"What did your parents name you? Simon? Nah, from now on your name is Peter."

That's what the master-disciple relationship was to Paul. Paul taught that men should not be under women in that kind of relationship and, as well, women should not be under men in that kind of relationship. Rather, men should be discipled to men and women should be discipled to women. That is a compromise to the Lord's basic principle, but it's a compromise because of sin in the world.

The same was true of slavery. But to the extent that the Body of Christ can move its practices to adhere to the Lord's principle as much as it can do so, it should.

Who argues today that Christians should continue to practice slavery because Paul did not try to wipe out slavery in the Roman empire? But Paul did warn slave-holding Christians that they and their slaves were equally the property of Jesus, and that Jesus would hold the "slaveholders" accountable for how they took care of what was really His property.

In Paul's time, he could push the Lord's principle with regard to the union of Greeks and Jews in the Body of Christ, and even that was extremely difficult.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Women are very important evangelists. Paul was instructing Timothy in pastoral duties and how he did things. But throughout his ministry he commended the women he worked with.Women teaching women is acceptable . But I have never been to a women's Bible study or conference or program that men were absent. Last year I went to a women's conference and there were a lot of men there.

 

[RDKirk]

Women are very important evangelists. Paul was instructing Timothy in pastoral duties and how he did things. But throughout his ministry he commended the women he worked with.Women teaching women is acceptable . But I have never been to a women's Bible study or conference or program that men were absent. Last year I went to a women's conference and there were a lot of men there.

Paul's understanding of "teaching" was a master-disciple relationship in which the master literally ruled the disciple's life--the disciple was practically a servant to the teacher. We don't even have that kind of relationship today in churches even between men.

Standing in front of a group of people that you don't have any authority over? That would not be "teaching" in Paul's vocabulary. That would be "expounding."

 

[SkyWriting]

So, what are your thoughts, does this cause woman to take a back seat in Christian culture?

"Do unto others", means there is no male or female.

 

[JIMINZ]

"Do unto others", means there is no male or female.

.
No, "Do unto others" is a principal of doing, Not a principal of being.

 

[JIMINZ]

When God gave instruction on the building of the Temple, and the assigning of those who should serve and be Priests within the Temple, did God at that time mention women in the Priesthood?.....If not why not?

When Jesus chose His disciples, were there women counted within the 12?.....If no, why not?

I believe we can also go by what our example has been both by God and Jesus, as to who should be where in the Ministry.

 

[redleghunter]

"Do unto others", means there is no male or female.

I'll try to explain that to my wife.

 

[Major1]

Im seen groups take the writings.in Timothy about women very seriously. Scripture such as:

But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Timothy 2:12 NASB

Have been taken to mean that women should not be pastor's and that they are completely subordinate to men.

I have seen other claim that this is just their culture at the time. Unfortunately, I've seen these same groups state that not believing this verses means you don't believe it to be divinely inspired. Which of course calls into question the entire Bible.

So, what are your thoughts, does this cause woman to take a back seat in Christian culture? Does not following this go against God's order? Does not believing this scripture to be more than opinion call into question more scripture?

Something that I was taught a long time ago was............
1) Did God say it?
2) Can God lie?
3) Is hell real?

A woman should not take a back seat to a man in anything. If it were not for women, most of us would not be here today.

There is a reason why men were called into the Christian ministry and not women.

Consider that there might be another factor to consider. The facts are that the disciples were not only all men, they were all Jewish, and there were exactly 12. When there were only 11, Peter said that it was necessary to bring the number back to 12 in Acts 1:22.

WHY? Why not just 11? Why not 17?

From history and the Scriptures we can understand that Jesus was forming a new people of God, and the 12 disciples represented the 12 tribes of Israel, and for that reason they had to be 12 men.
For the symbolism of this group, it was necessary for Jesus to discriminate against Gentiles and women.

Now another question would be.........."Biblically speaking can women be ordained as Pastors today"?

 

[SkyWriting]

I'll try to explain that to my wife.

You are called to treat other people in the same way you would
wish to be treated yourself. Scripture applies to you and not
to others.

 

[SkyWriting]

Now another question would be.........."Biblically speaking can women be ordained as Pastors today"?

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:28

Treat others, as you would wish to be treated yourself.
Others 101

 

[SkyWriting]

So, what are your thoughts, does this cause woman to take a back seat in Christian culture? Does not following this go against God's order? Does not believing this scripture to be more than opinion call into question more scripture?

How to treat other people
(even....girls)
Others 101

 

[Major1]

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:28

Treat others, as you would wish to be treated yourself.
Others 101

I agree with you. You are speaking to the choir my friend as I am not arguing, simply posted what is and I did not say that I agree with what is. Just that it is what it is.

 

[Major1]

I'll try to explain that to my wife.

You do not have to explain it to her my brother.......She knows you.......so she already knows.

 

[SkyWriting]

.
No, "Do unto others" is a principal of doing, Not a principal of being.

I was short(er) than need be.

Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you
eliminates the mistake of creating seperate rules for
boys and girls.

Do-unto-others - Class Section 101

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Being God ordained or man ordained is in the heart of the individual. That I think needs no explanation to those in question whether male or female.

 

[SkyWriting]

I agree with you. You are speaking to the choir my friend as I am not arguing, simply posted what is and I did not say that I agree with what is. Just that it is what it is.

I'm pretty sure you asked an open question, so my response should not be construed as an argument.

Now another question would be.........."Biblically speaking can women be ordained as Pastors today"?

 

[Sammy-San]

Paul's understanding of "teaching" was a master-disciple relationship in which the master literally ruled the disciple's life--the disciple was practically a servant to the teacher. We don't even have that kind of relationship today in churches even between men.

Standing in front of a group of people that you don't have any authority over? That would not be "teaching" in Paul's vocabulary. That would be "expounding."

What about women's discipleship?

 

[redleghunter]

You do not have to explain it to her my brother.......She knows you.......so she already knows.

Indeed and thank you for the reminder....I was reminded as I was dragging out the trash cans this morning.

 

[redleghunter]

You are called to treat other people in the same way you would
wish to be treated yourself. Scripture applies to you and not
to others.

Are we not our 'brother's' keeper?