Scripture Forbids The Use Of Any Ecumenical Creed

[Tellastory]

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

And that is what these ecumenical creeds are doing, gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles by sharing an agreement with the RCC.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. leanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

We are to be submissive to Christ, not submitting to an agreement of an ecumenical creed.

1 Corinthians 5:6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

John 7:77 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

 

[Yarddog]

Scripture Forbids The Use Of Any Ecumenical Creed

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Can you tell us making a confession of our belief in God has to do with idols? Do you believe that our God is a false god?

Scripture actually tell us to make our confession

Matthew 10: Jesus says-
32 Every one therefore who shall confess me before men, him will I also confess before my Father who is in heaven.

The Apostles Creed is our confession. I BELIEVE...

1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

WHAT IS EVIL ABOUT TELLING GOD THAT YOU BELIEVE IN HIM?

Do you understand anything about scripture?
Romans 10: Paul says-
10 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach:
9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be put to shame.

And that is what these ecumenical creeds are doing, gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles by sharing an agreement with the RCC.

It is not the Roman Catholic Creed it is the Apostles Creed. The Creed was not devised by the RCC it was devised by the Catholic Church which included the whole Christian Church, East and West.

You bear rotten fruit as this scripture bears witness to.
Matthew 7:
17Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So by their fruits you will know them.

We are to be submissive to Christ, not submitting to an agreement of an ecumenical creed.

Well duh bright boy, if you could read you would get that the Apostles Creed says who we are submissive to. God the Father the Almighty, maker of heaven and of Earth, and in Jesus Christ his only Son, our Lord

We make our confession to God just as scripture calls us to do.
Phil. 2:
5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient [even] unto death, yea, the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name;
10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven and [things] on earth and [things] under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Tellastory]

Can you tell us making a confession of our belief in God has to do with idols? Do you believe that our God is a false god?

Thank you for your response.

Consider this, Brother, what makes a statue an idol?

It is not the making of any engraved images that is really forbidden when God instructs Moses to build a huge staff with a coiled serpent at the top of it to be placed in the center of the camp when Israel was in the wilderness being plagues by poisonous snakes for their discontentment & rebellion. Whenever anyone get bit, they were to look to that staff at the center of the camp to be saved from the snake bite.

And yet later on, in secular Jewish history, that particular staff was destroyed because Jews were bowing down to it and worshipping it, treating that as if it was alive.

Now what has been happening when Catholic statues or portraits have been reportedly weeping or bleeding? Flocking to it, seeking miracles from it as if it was alive.

And that is not counting all the non-miraculous ones that Catholics bowed to and prayed to at the feet of that statue as if they answers their prayers in the same way as only God can.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Even some of these Catholic prayers to saints are accreditting and glorifying that patron saint as being the one that answers their prayers.

That's idolatry. Plain and simple. Only God answers prayers and in this case, only the Son of God answers these prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Then you have that Eucharist, having the bread as well as the wine to become more than what it is by transubstantiation which is making an object an idol, a living thing.

1 Corinthians 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. 18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? 20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. 22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

To place the one time sacrifice for sins at Calvory to be continual in the hands of the Catholic priests in Mass is declaring the priests stronger than Him and making His sacrifice as not good enough in relation to all the sacrifices that were done beforehand in how they were continual also.

Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us:..

Jesus is not going to move from that throne of grace as He has sat down "forever on the right hand of God in being our only Mediator between God and man. The fact that you have the Holy Ghost means you are saved and thus no more continual sacrifice for sins because you have been forever sanctified by Him as in saved.

To disregard that one time sacrifice for sins is to sin willfully in spite of the knowledge of that truth.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I sure do not want to be a Catholic in falsely representing Him that like the blood of goats and bulls, He has to keep "willfully" & voluntarily come down and sacrifice Himself again as they did in the Old Covenant. Nope.

These two things would offend God about the Eucharist in the Mass.

#1) That would mean He has not sat down forever at the right hand of God.

#2) That would mean that His blood was the same as the blood of goats & bulls in the previous sacrificial system of the Old Covenant that He has to repeat His sacrifice over and over again for Catholics in their churches.

Communion and the gospel has been far removed from being simple by the words and works of catholicism.

So... that is where I aquaint idolatry with the RCC, and why there can be no agreement with them when our saved brothers & sisters are walking in darkness, relating to God the Father in every other way "besides" the Son, and insulting that Spirit of grace by making the bread and the wone more than what it is in the Mass when it is merely symbolic to be done in remembrance of Him.... of what He has done in having saved them...wherein the Holy Ghost in them is witness that they are saved.

 

[Yarddog]

Thank you for your response.

Consider this, Brother, what makes a statue an idol?

Believing that that statue is a God.

Now what has been happening when Catholic statues or portraits have been reportedly weeping or bleeding? Flocking to it, seeking miracles from it as if it was alive.

Totally ignorant of Catholicism, huh? Catholics understand fully that a statue is not alive. They understand that statues are not God or gods, whether the image is of Jesus or not, no statue is a God. They do understand what the statue or icon represents, though.

When I look upon an image of the crucifix, I am moved by what Jesus did for me and I am humbled before the Lord. When I see a statue of Mary, I understand how she humbly submitted to God to bear his son, despite what she may to face from her fellow Jews.

When I see statues of Peter or Paul I am moved by their commitment to the Gospel and how they gladly accepted martyrdom to follow Christ.

A statue stirs our spirit to praise God for how we are to submit to the will of God.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

That is what the Catholic Church teaches and believes. Jesus is the only mediator between man and God.

Even some of these Catholic prayers to saints are accreditting and glorifying that patron saint as being the one that answers their prayers.

No, the prayers are answered by God, not the saint. The saints are asked to pray with us and for us just as scripture calls for us to pray for each other.

That's idolatry. Plain and simple. Only God answers prayers and in this case, only the Son of God answers these prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

If you actually understood what you were talking about, you wouldn't look so foolish, sinning by bearing false witness about Christians.

Then you have that Eucharist, having the bread as well as the wine to become more than what it is by transubstantiation which is making an object an idol, a living thing.

How is Jesus an idol? The bread and wine are Jesus. That is what the whole Church has taught since Jesus instilled the Eucharist at the 1st Supper. It wasn't until the 16th century that some begin to change this.

To place the one time sacrifice for sins at Calvory to be continual in the hands of the Catholic priests in Mass is declaring the priests stronger than Him and making His sacrifice as not good enough in relation to all the sacrifices that were done beforehand in how they were continual also.

You know nothing, do you?

To disregard that one time sacrifice for sins is to sin willfully in spite of the knowledge of that truth.

No one disregards the One sacrifice. That is what is celebrated in the Mass.

I sure do not want to be a Catholic in falsely representing Him that like the blood of goats and bulls, He has to keep "willfully" & voluntarily come down and sacrifice Himself again as they did in the Old Covenant. Nope.

There is One sacrifice and not another sacrifice. There is no re-sacrificing. It is plain that you understand nothing.

These two things would offend God about the Eucharist in the Mass.

You elevate yourself as being able to tell God what would offend him? What blasphemy.

So... that is where I aquaint idolatry with the RCC,

Your problems is that you listen to fools who tell you what they do not understand about God and the Catholic or Orthodox Churches and also some of the Protestant Churches who also celebrate the Mass, such as Anglicans, Lutherans, etc...

It is God through the Holy Spirit which told me to get baptized and brought me to the Catholic Church. I will always put God before the ignorance of man and those who want to tell lies about the Church teaches.

I praise God that his Son, Jesus Christ, saved me and baptized me in the Holy Spirit.

Hopefully, someday, you will learn the truth.

 

[Tellastory]

Hopefully, someday, you will learn the truth.

Seeing how a hacker is responsible for losing everything that I wish to share with you in Christ's love in making me start all over again and seeing how you have already made up your mind about this, I am letting this one go to Jesus in leading you to find the truth.

If this information gets to you: you look it up in the 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church... Pg 343 # 1364 & Pg 344 # 1364 & pg. 354 # 1405 as explaining your work of redemption is being carried out every time you celebrate the Mass and thus a continual sacrifice of that one sacrifice being made present and offered in an unbloody manner.

As it is, there are factions over its meaning of the Mass, but the catechism should be the final word, right?

Catholic Update - Is the Mass Still a Sacrifice? by Patrick McCloskey, O.F.M.

Yet the scripture shared with you earlier should have the final word on the topic.

But I leave you to Jesus Christ, Brother.

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

Creeds are good. They are a basic summary of our beliefs.

 

[Rescued One]

Creeds are good. They are a basic summary of our beliefs.

Thank God.

 

[Yarddog]

Seeing how a hacker is responsible for losing everything that I wish to share with you in Christ's love in making me start all over again and seeing how you have already made up your mind about this, I am letting this one go to Jesus in leading you to find the truth.

Yes, I have made up my mind because it was Jesus that brought me to the Catholic Church from Protestantism. I have made up my mind that you do not know enough about Catholicism to make the claims which you make, because you make all of the same mistakes that the others who attack the Church do.

Instead of attacking what you do not know, first learn what the Catholic actually does and then if you disagree, do it respectfully because you also attack Jesus when you attack anyone who is a child of God.

If this information gets to you: you look it up in the 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church... Pg 343 # 1364 & Pg 344 # 1364 & pg. 354 # 1405 as explaining your work of redemption is being carried out every time you celebrate the Mass and thus a continual sacrifice of that one sacrifice being made present and offered in an unbloody manner.

1364 In the New Testament, the memorial takes on new meaning. When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ's Passover, and it is made present the sacrifice Christ offered once for all on the cross remains ever present. "As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which 'Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed' is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out."

That One sacrifice is still working today to cover the sins of man regardless of the time they live in.
Hebrews 7:25
Therefore, he is always able to save those who approach God through him, since he lives forever to make intercession for them.

As it is, there are factions over its meaning of the Mass, but the catechism should be the final word, right?

Is the paragraph the only thing that you read in that article? It is no wonder that you understand so little.

Yet the scripture shared with you earlier should have the final word on the topic.

You gave no scripture which is against Catholic teaching on the Eucharist and if you read the Catechism you should have seen the references pointing to the scriptures which give evidence for the doctrine.

But I leave you to Jesus Christ, Brother.

Thanks, Jesus is our Lord and shepherd, listen to his voice and learn.

God Bless,
Yarddog,
Your brother in Christ.

 

[Tellastory]

Creeds are good. They are a basic summary of our beliefs.

Creeds are not good when recited out of habit that believers say it without actually knowing the meaning of everything that is said.

Even in the statement of faith, the CF forum felt compelled to explain the one holy catholic church in order to defer from the claims of the RCC.

And... such explanations are not always accompanying the creed in churches.

My former Presbyterian church changed it out to one holy christian church, and even had it printed in the bulletin to be read that way, but it did not last long as it reverted back to the one holy catholic church.

Therefore the use of creeds are not abstaining from all appearances of evil when the RCC claims that part of the creed as signifying the RCC as being that one holy catholic church.

And since the early churches used no such creeds as taught in any letters to the churches in the NT, then the Apostles' creed should be dropped when it is obvious they had taught any such creed to the churches to say.

 

[ConfuseddotCom]

The Creeds are scripture.

 

[Albion]

Creeds are not good when recited out of habit that believers say it without actually knowing the meaning of everything that is said.

Great. Then we are agreed, and we've accomplished something.

Creeds are NOT forbidden by Scripture (that was the mistake of the OP), but we ought to know what they are saying when and if we assent to them. (Isn't that what is intended by any Creed, anyway?)

 

[Tellastory]

Aside from the personal attacks, I will address the content of the post for the readers as there will be no arguing with him at this time.

Yes, I have made up my mind because it was Jesus that brought me to the Catholic Church from Protestantism.

There are other such claims as I believe them to be true, but as they did leave Protestantism to "learn" about catholicism and thus converted to it, it stands to reason that they were not rooted in the word when doing so.

Alot of people will testify of being led by the Lord to leave the Catholic church because catholicism was not lining up with scripture.

So this is why I state this observation for the readers to consider for discernment and those that do not wish to do so, are free to ignore that.

I have made up my mind that you do not know enough about Catholicism to make the claims which you make, because you make all of the same mistakes that the others who attack the Church do.

Instead of attacking what you do not know, first learn what the Catholic actually does and then if you disagree, do it respectfully because you also attack Jesus when you attack anyone who is a child of God.

The 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church does testify that a Catholic is NOT saved yet, because he or she has to persevere in charity or they are not saved.

Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved.

Pg. 222, #837

There are many Catholics railing on me saying that I do not know what they believe because some of them do believe that they are saved.

And yet the catechism speaks on this wise about the sin of presumption.

There are two kinds of presumption. Eiether man preseumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he preseumes upon God's almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit.

Pg. 507, #2092

Now to this part of the response towards me:

1364 In the New Testament, the memorial takes on new meaning. When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ's Passover, and it is made present the sacrifice Christ offered once for all on the cross remains ever present. "As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which 'Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed' is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out."

That One sacrifice is still working today to cover the sins of man regardless of the time they live in.

In redeeming sinners for the first time that come to and believe in Him. It is not a continual sacrifice made ever present for saved believers to keep on taking as an unbloody sacrificial offer of Jesus as an ongoing work of their own redemption. That is like saying they are not saved yet because you have not been fully redeemed yet.

Hebrews 7:25
Therefore, he is always able to save those who approach God through him, since he lives forever to make intercession for them.

Intercessions is what He is making. Not continual sacrifice of the one at Calvary.

If any body wants to know how a saved believer is cleansed from sins committed after salvation, please know it is not by partaking in the Mass.

1 John 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

A saved believer can ask for forgiveness of sins by confessing them to Him. A saved believer can rest in that knowledge that he or she is cleansed from all unrighteousness... all of them. A saved believer can rest in the knowledge that as he or she is walking in the light and not in darkness, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sins as we maintain that fellowship with the Father & the Son by walking in the light by His grace and by His help. And yet if a saved believer sins, they can confess it and know they are forgiven as they lean on Him to repent of it to continue walking in the light.

Is the paragraph the only thing that you read in that article? It is no wonder that you understand so little.

Anyone can read the article to form their own opinions on how Catholics believe differently and why the catechism should be the final word on any given subject of catholicism.

You gave no scripture which is against Catholic teaching on the Eucharist and if you read the Catechism you should have seen the references pointing to the scriptures which give evidence for the doctrine.

Sometimes Catholics say things without realizing they are saying that which I was speaking of earlier... a continual sacrifice is what is going on when a Catholic's work of redemption is being carried on in the Mass.

That is why one Catholic man I know of HAVE to go to the Mass, failing to see it as a con to enslave the Catholics in serving a church and not Him to rest in Him as saved so that others may know the Good News to man.

Again, readers can make up their own minds in what they read of those scriptural references given in the 3rd post of this thread just as scripture was given about treating Mary or any of the departed patron saint as a god as if they can answer prayers the way the Son of God can.

Thanks, Jesus is our Lord and shepherd, listen to his voice and learn.

I agree with only that part of the quote. Learn of Him through His actual words and not man made ones making up catholicism. They may use scripture, but not rightly applied as such teachings that are derived from it can be reproven by scripture elsewhere. And since scripture cannot go against scripture, then they are not rightly applying that reference that the RCC is using which is why those rooted in the word would never convert to catholicism and why those in catholicism are leaving because they are rooted in the word to know that catholicism is not of Him at all.

 

[Tellastory]

Great. Then we are agreed, and we've accomplished something.

Creeds are NOT forbidden by Scripture (that was the mistake of the OP), but we ought to know what they are saying when and if we assent to them. (Isn't that what is intended by any Creed, anyway?)

Creeds are also not good when used as an ecumenical agreement as the scripture in the OP testifies.

Feel free to address the scripture in the OP or at the very least, provide scripture for using a creed that is also being used by the RCC.

 

[Albion]

Creeds are also not good when used as an ecumenical agreement as the scripture in the OP testifies.

Well, I don't think the scripture does testify to that.

 

[Tellastory]

Well, I don't think the scripture does testify to that.

Feel free to share what it does testify to.

If we are not have friendship with the world:

And we are to withdraw from every brother that walks disorderly and not after the traditions taught of us:

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.........14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

And Jesus calls us to come out of the world because their works are evil:

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Then love requires a withdrawal in the hopes of their repentance.

John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another. 18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

As this is required for a church to excommunicate.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

So there is to be no friendship with the world.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Creeds are a bushel over the Protestants' lamps. The world are fully aware of the creeds and yet as the RCC uses it as an agreement, the Protestant's lamps have been under a bushel ever since.

Drop the creeds and the world will give another look at the Protestant's lamps to know through the study in the scripture what the Protestants really believe as standing apart and not in agreement with the RCC.

 

[Albion]

Feel free to share what it does testify to.

If we are not have friendship with the world:

And we are to withdraw from every brother that walks disorderly and not after the traditions taught of us

Neither of those amounts to "Don't have any creeds."

And Jesus calls us to come out of the world because their works are evil

We're talking about a Christian statement of beliefs, not something that's
"of the world."

As this is required for a church to excommunicate.

We weren't talking about excommunications, one way or the other.

Creeds are a bushel over the Protestants' lamps.

On the contrary, they are professions of belief--the opposite of hiding one's light under a bushel.

Drop the creeds and the world will give another look at the Protestant's lamps to know through the study in the scripture what the Protestants really believe as standing apart and not in agreement with the RCC.

You're under no obligation to use a creed that Catholics use, if that's your view. This doesn't mean that all creeds are wrong.

 

[Tellastory]

Neither of those amounts to "Don't have any creeds."

Anything that is seen as an agreement with the RCC is to be shunned.

We're talking about a Christian statement of beliefs, not something that's "of the world."

Having an agreement with the RCC is seen as being friends with them as the RCC is being friends with the world in their ecumenical campaigns.

We weren't talking about excommunications, one way or the other.

We were talking about God's requirment to be seen as seperate as chosen out of the world to shine His light without partiality.

On the contrary, they are professions of belief--the opposite of hiding one's light under a bushel.

How is that a witness to the world? How has that prevented believers from going astray today?

Creeds do not root them in the word. There can be no short cuts in discipleship. Either root them in the word by teaching believers from the word in continuing in them because creeds are not doing the job at all.

You're under no obligation to use a creed that Catholics use, if that's your view. This doesn't mean that all creeds are wrong.

Ask Jesus at that throne of grace then... and do expect an answer.

Can an evil tree produce good fruit? Can a good tree produce bad fruit? And yet the fruit of a false prophet is gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles, being ecumenical in nature.

I would have to say that the use of creeds is ecumenical in nature as it was designed for that purpose and thus a false prophet as surely as it is not producing good fruits to keep any believer from going astray.

Just citing a statement of faith without grounding them in the word is a recipe for when they get persecuted because of the word, they are offended because of the word and they go astray.

AND not every statement in a creed is backed by scripture.

AND being ecumenical in nature as forming an agreement to be shared by all churches is enough to warrant a spewing out of the mouth of the Lord.

Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. 34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[Albion]

Anything that is seen as an agreement with the RCC is to be shunned.

You're about the only person I know who thinks that the Apostles' Creed (for example) amounts to "an agreement with the RCC." All the various churches that use it would be amused or exasperated at your theory, I'm sure.

 

[Yarddog]

Aside from the personal attacks, I will address the content of the post for the readers as there will be no arguing with him at this time.

It would have been nice if you had not been applying personal attacks from the very beginning.

So this is why I state this observation for the readers to consider for discernment and those that do not wish to do so, are free to ignore that.

And what you have done is why Catholics who know that your observations are incorrect need to speak up so that you do not lead Catholics who also lack understanding, astray. Non-Catholics also need to know your errors so that they do not get the wrong impression of the Catholic Church or the Creeds of the Church or any doctrines which Catholics, Orthodox, and many Protestants accept.

The 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church does testify that a Catholic is NOT saved yet, because he or she has to persevere in charity or they are not saved.

Pg. 222, #837

There are many Catholics railing on me saying that I do not know what they believe because some of them do believe that they are saved.

Being saved has multiple meaning in scripture. We are saved through our baptism into the body of Christ but we have not reached our salvation, as of yet, because we are still, as Paul says "working out our salvation".

I like to put it like this. When we were baptized into the Church, it is like being in the boat with Jesus while a storm rages and whips up the waters of lake Galilee. We have been saved from the waves(the world) but we haven't reached shore yet, (salvation) heaven.

Jesus may have pulled us into the boat but how much have we changed. Are we helping to provide for others who need to be pulled into the boat or to the others in the boat who still live in fear of the storm. How much are we growing. How much of our spirits are we turning over to the Holy Spirit so that we can continue to be transformed into the image of God.

We can see from the parable of the talents in Matthew 25 that all God has given gifts to will use them properly. To those who fail: " For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken away. And cast ye out the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

It is not enough to say that we have been saved because God expects us to use the free gift which he has given us. Open it up and share it so that ones 10 talents shall bring back an abundance. Matthew 25 goes on to tell about the goats and the sheep.

We need to learn how to walk in the Spirit of God so that we may be counted among the sheep.

God bless,
trying to put my talents to good use,
Yarddog

 

[Tellastory]

You're about the only person I know who thinks that the Apostles' Creed (for example) amounts to "an agreement with the RCC." All the various churches that use it would be amused or exasperated at your theory, I'm sure.

From the Apostles' creed:

Apostles' Creed

9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:

That can be read and heard as agreeing that the RCC is that church.

You can argue for the way Protestant uses the term catholic, but it is not scriptural to be using catholic as a definition of the one body of Christ that it can be misunderstood as agreeing with the RCC as being that one holy church.

So as a confession of faith, the creed is misleading and a false witness to those that do not believe and yet hear or read that creed as saying such.