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Featured Scriptural Verification of the Pre-trib Rapture of the Church

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

    The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

    1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

    2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

    3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

    4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


    Quasar92
     
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  2. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: (the second coming) and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

    Since the resurrection only happens at the second coming and that we have the rapture happening AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these two verses decisively prove the pre-trib rapture to be false.
     
  3. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    The wise virgins shall be taken to the Feast of the Lamb in heaven, the foolish virgins shall be left behind and yell in fear "Lord Lord let me in" !!! because they fear the Grief Tribulation is coming !!!!!!!

    [​IMG]

    The foolish virgins hope they will be given the oil, this shows their relation to the church as a cheerleaders only.
    Their hope is that their relation with true believers (“give us some of your oil”) will bring them into the kingdom at the end. This, of course, is never the case. One person’s faith in Jesus cannot save another.

    They yell “Lord, lord” and “I do not know you”

    Matt 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    (The word "asleep" refers to the dead in Christ.)

    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    (The word "descend" means to come down.)

    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    (The word "But" connects chapter 5 to the event at the end of chapter 4.)

    1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. (This reveals the timing of the event at the end of chapter 4. It uses the same language found in 2 Peter 3:10, and Revelation 16:15-16, which means it is a Second Coming event.)

    1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
    1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
    1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
    1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
    1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

    The words "we" and "sleep" in the verse above prove that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4.

    There is no trip back to heaven in the passage.
    It must be imported from another passage to make the pretrib doctrine work.

    .
     
  5. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    According to the Scriptures: All believers/the Church, will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air BEFORE the tribulation begins, as recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3, 7-8. They are seen in heaven for a seven year period, for the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, while the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. When Jesus returns in His second coming, the Church will be following Him, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in Rev.19:14.

    See also, my post: Why 1 Thess.4:16 is not a resurrection.

    Hope this helps.

    Quasar92
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  6. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In reality, Jesus gave the final sign for the end of this world being that of His coming and gathering of His saints. The events in Matt.24 and Mark 13 about the gathering are the same events Paul taught in 1 Thess.4...

    Mark 13:27
    27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

    KJV

    Matt 24:31
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    KJV

    Notice how the two gathering examples slightly differ. The Matt.24:31 version is about the gathering of the 'asleep' saints that have already died, their being resurrected.

    But the gathering example in the Mark 13 version is about the gathering of the saints from the earth, their still being alive on that day of His 2nd coming.

    In 1 Thess.4, that is the order Apostle Paul taught, the asleep saints shall rise first, and Jesus will bring them with Him, and then the saints still alive on earth are "caught up" to them. Paul said we who are still alive on earth shall not "prevent" those alseep saints who have already died. The actual Greek word for "prevent" means 'to precede'.

    So there it is. The 1 Thess.4 gathering aligns perfectly with the gathering Jesus taught in His Olivet Discourse. And the order of His 2nd coming in His Olivet Discourse was the very final sign or event He gave there to occur. Further Scripture proof is given in Revelation 16:15 where He is still warning His Church on earth on the 6th Vial, saying that He comes "as a thief", which links with the timing Paul taught for the "day of the Lord" in 1 Thess.5, and Peter in 2 Peter 3:10 about God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth on the last day of this world.

    All this Biblically proves the Pre-trib Rapture theory to be false.
     
  7. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Biblical support for the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church contradict your views in the OP. Here is more Scriptural support for it:

    he Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church

    Mt.24:31:

    And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out. [OT saints of Israel never went to heaven until after Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross, which is another subject entirely. See Lk.16:19-31].

    Lk.21:36:
    "Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

    Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
    "In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

    "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

    The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:
    "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.

    1 Thes.4:13-18:
    The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

    "We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

    "According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

    Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.

    "For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

    "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

    "Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.

    2 Thess.2:1-8:
    The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
    "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

    The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

    In 2 Thess.2:3:
    "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

    Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
    The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

    Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

    "He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

    The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed in verse 7:
    "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

    The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

    In verse 8:
    "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

    The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

    From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


    Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!


    The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

    http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf


    Quasar92
     
  8. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Pretrib author Grant Jeffrey tried to erase the Post-trib views of the Early Church Fathers by cutting and pasting their writings, to make his doctrine work.

    This shows the dishonesty of some pretrib promoters.



    Pretribulationist Revisionism
    (Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
    Pastor Tim Warner

    http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

    .
     
  9. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    No scripture presents that. As shown, the only time the rapture happens is after the second coming has begun, and after the resurrection is completed.




    Those verses do not show anything like that.


    The Church is only following because the dead in Christ were resurrected, and the living were raptured to Christ. Those things happen once the second coming begins.

    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    Of course this refers to the resurrection.
     
  10. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    Bible clearly says the wise virgins are taken to the Throne of Almighty God Yahwe.
    Rev 7:14 These are they which came out of great tribulation.........
     
  11. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    With all due respect: My post just above the one by BAB2's, reveals the timing of the pre-trib rapture of the church and provides the historical translation of 2 Thess.2:3 that had been altered in the 17th century, changing its intended meaning. The Church is in heaven for the marriage to Jesus and returns with Hikm in His second coming as recorded in Rev.19:7-8 and 14. 1 Thes.4:16 can hardly be a resurrection in the face of Jesus calling Rev.20:4, the first one.


    Quasar92
     

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  12. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Rev 20:4 focuses on a certain group that is resurrected when Christ returns. They are not the only dead in Christ that rise back to physical life. 1 Thes.4:16 is the resurrection of the dead and I know of no one who denies that except yourself.

    The whole thing is about the dead resurrecting:

    1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

    Sleep here means those who are dead.

    1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    Sorry but we have the second coming, then the resurrection, and then the rapture. All three events happen after the trib has ended.
     
  13. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Scriptures pertaining to the 10 virgins is addressed to Israel and has nothing at all to do with the Church, that did not exist then. Because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost. ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, as recorded in Acs 1:9 and 2:1-3. Rev.7:9-17 pertains to the Great Multitude who will be brought to the Lord during the tribulation, in the absence of the Church, by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists,of Rev.7:1-8.

    Quasar92
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Q, it seems to me that you are making a case for the rapture not being the Second coming (Revelation 19), but that does not equate to that the rapture must happen pre-trib (pre-70th week).
     
  15. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    Please note the wise virgins with oil speaks about Holy Spirit which is poured unto all nations.

    THE FEAST OF THE LAMB for all believers shall happen when the rapture takes place.

    The foolish virgins without oil represent the christians without Holy Spirit/cheerleaders.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  16. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You cannot come out of a room unless you have been in the room...


    Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    .
     
  17. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    thats the only thing you can do when you are left behind, IF YOU DARE.
     
  18. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, though the passage pertaining to the ten virgins was addressed to Israel, the five virgins prepared for the bridegroom with oil, implicate the Church. Which I misinformed you by saying the Church was not involved. Please accept my apology. The five prepared virgins became believers and therefore members of the Church, as seen in 1 Cor.12:12-13. While the five who were not prepared were among those who are left behind, when Jesus comes for His Church in 1 Thess.4:16, and take them to heaven with Him, as recorded in 1 Thess.4:17 and Jn.14:2-3 and 28. The five unprepared virgins will not recognize the Lord until He returns in His second coming, WITH his Church, recorded in Zech.12:10, Zech.14:4-5 and Rev.19:14.



    Quasar92
     
  19. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is too bad all posts are not numbered, which would make reference to them quite easy. In this case, the OP and the 7th post from the OP are abundantly clear Biblical evidence for the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church. Indeed, I do make a case in full support of the Scriptures that teach it.

    The following four post link, represents the OP and the 7th post from the OP, in the first two posts of it. The third post is the Chronological order of end time events, while the fourth post is a listings of esteemed men of God from every avenue of Christianity who fully support it.

    The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - a deeper walk...

    For any and all who deny the pre-trib teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, a full scale Scriptural rebuttal is necessary to do so. Personal opinion is a meaningless contribution, and is a failure.


    Quasar92
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    All of the above falls apart once a person comes to understand that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

    .
     
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