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Mid-Trib Only scoffers(anyone can type in)

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Paul K, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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  2. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    In my opinion, the Day of the Lord, IS WWIII. In fact, the Book of Revelation is nothing more than John's interpretation of the rise of a dictator and the effects of WWIII.
    I know that it has been a long time, but I have stated before that the Day of the Lord is God's vengeance upon the Earth for following the antichrist. In what appears to be backwards, the antichrist brings peace to the entire world, which God will ultimately destroy by putting it into the heads of a few leaders to break those peace treaties.
    Russia(?) will invade the Middle East only to have it's army, which will be on the verge of conquering Israel, to be completely annihilated.
    Then China(?), with it's vast army of hundreds of millions, will attack East. This will ultimately lead to Armageddon, which would wipe out ALL living things on this planet were it not for the return of Jesus Christ.
    Since there won't be a Pre-Trib or Mid-Trib Rapture, NO ONE alive at this time, will escape what happens.
     
  3. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    There will be no war.
    Ezekiel 7:14 The [war] trumpet has sounded and all are ready, but there is no battle, for their actions call forth My wrath.
    The Lord will arise and strike His enemies with His terrible judgement/punishment by fire. Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
  4. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    So what do you call Gog/Magog's attack against Israel and a HUGE army from the East ending up at Armageddon?
     
  5. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    I call them attacks that will happen later.
    The G/M attack: after the Holy Land is cleared and then settled by the Lord's righteous people. Ezekiel 38:1-2
    Armageddon: at the end of the last seven years, when Jesus Returns.
     
  6. farout

    farout Standing firm for Christ

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    The study of end times is important, but not as a main focus. I have talked to so many professed experts of end times, that have never read Revelation. Often people call it Revelations which of course is an ignorant mistake. I wonder how many of those posting have read any commentaries on Revelation? Most people have been under a Pastor that has taught what they believe is how we are to understand the Book. Unless a person is a genuine Follower of Jesus Christ, and is in at least the New Testament daily and has the basic teachings of Jesus down to where they function by His commands, then maybe expounding on the end of times is way too much. Lets drink the milk of the WORD, begin to walk as a Follower of Jesus, then begin to eat the meat of the WORD.

    Frankly I don't see much Christ like Love being shown in these posts. I thought is was a Mid Tribulation position thread. So I will respond in that manner. I find it hard to accept that one day everything is pretty much normal for the time, and al of a sudden people are removed and no one knows what happened. You know the "Left Behind" position, and the way I have studied this for a long time it just is not that way.

    My understanding of the return of Jesus comes mainly from Matthew 24. I think if Jesus gave us this as a guide than why not follow and trust what He said. In Matthew 24 Jesus said not to be mislead. Other' saying they are Jesus will come. There will be wars and rumors of wars. Not to be frightened as these things must take place. Nations will war against each other, there will famines and earthquakes. this is not the end but just the beginning, like birth pains. We may see tribulation, we will be killed and because we are Followers of Jesus we will be hated. There is going to be many who will fall away from following Jesus, and betray one another. There will MANY false teachers and preachers come and mislead MANY. People will become cold and So called Christian love will grow cold. We will be saved if we endure to the end. When to Gospel reaches the whole world then the end will come.

    After the Abomination of Desolation then we are to understand we are to flee.(hide perhaps) There are examples of those who will suffer and hopefully pray that all this won't happen in the winter.

    Now here in verse 21 then real tribulation will come worse that ever before or ever will be. Jesus warns us people will say He is here or there, but do not believe it. Because false prophets and false mockers saying they are Christ will do signs and wonders. Jesus tell us these things in advance.

    Verse 27 is the real return of Christ. There will be lightening from East to W, this is how Jesus is coming. Verse 29 says that after the tribulation the Sun will be dark, the moon won't shine, stars will fall heaven and Earth will be shaken. Verse 31, Then He send His angels with a great trumpet they will gather His Followers from all the Earth.

    Verse 42 tells us to be on alert for no one knows the day He is coming.

    We know this will take very fast, and we are to be ready and alert. That is what my summery of what the end of times means. I do not see that Christians won't have to endure the tribulation. I see there is going to be very difficult times ahead. I have no idea when Jesus will return for me and you. My thinking it is far better to have genuine believers prepared for what is ahead. The worse thing is to tell someone that Christians they won't have to endure very hard times, tribulation. If people are unprepared then their suffering is going to be extremely difficult. I believe we need to be ready for anything, be ready to protect our family and to help those who were not prepared.

    Preachers telling us we won't go threw the Tribulation may well be misleading people. Better to be ready is my position.
     
  7. JaeMelo

    JaeMelo Active Member

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    Really, so when was the mark of the beast applied to the entire worlds population... I don't recall anyone or any organization having the ability to prevent on global scale, buying or selling in the past?! This however can be the case in the future especially with the United Nations publicly announcing its plans to establish a Global sustainability and one world governance by 2030..
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
  8. Hazrus

    Hazrus Active Member

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    The mark of the beast is symbolic. It is not a specific mark - I have even heard people saying that barcodes were the mark of the beast!

    At the time of writing, all people in Roman-occupied territory had to use Roman currency which had the emperor's head on it. If they wanted to use this currency to buy and sell in the town marketplaces, they had to bow down to the Roman gods. This made it nigh on impossible for Christians to be a part of normal society.

    The meaning behind the symbolism here is this --> Christians must set themselves apart from the world and worship the true King.

    There is no need to think about the UN or EU or USA or Russia or China or anywhere else as being part of a future event. This is happening now.
    (how's that for bringing it back to mid-trib!)
     
  9. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    I was under the impression that Revelation WAS later.
     
  10. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    People who preach the Rapture - Pre, Trib or Pre - Wrath - ARE misleading people.
     
  11. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    The technology of 2015 is now, or very soon, capable of having a computer chip implanted under the skin in your head or hand. It is VERY feasible that soon you will run your head or hand in front of a scanner. It's not that great of a technological leap to go from using a card to pay for your purchases to an implanted chip to pay for your purchases.

    Unless I have the wrong thread, I was under the impression that scoffers opinions WERE welcome.
     
  12. farout

    farout Standing firm for Christ

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    There are some that think the mark is what your belief is about Jesus in your MIND. Truly how one lives and thinks is their MARK on life. I tend to believe this is correct.
     
  13. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    I find it quite unlikely that EVERY TIME that you go shopping that you will be asked to state your religious beliefs.
     
  14. Hazrus

    Hazrus Active Member

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    John, thanks for your reply. I love scoffers and debate; please don't think I am against that. I truly believe that debate helps us all to better understand the truth.

    Going back to the mark of the beast, do you believe it will be a physical mark or implant, etc, or do you think the symbolic idea has merit?
     
  15. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Later to John in the first century, almost there for us in the 21st.
    Re the mark of the beast: it will be a mark on the forehead or hand, Revelation 20:4b. However, most Christians who pass thru the forthcoming fire judgement, Luke 21:34-38, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, will go to live in all of the holy Land, where they won't be a part of this OWG, NWO 10 region government. Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Jeremiah 31:1-40

    Zion, the Promised Land:
    Isaiah 49:14-23 Zion says: The Lord has forsaken me. The Lord says: Can a woman forget her child? I shall never forget you. I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands. Your dwellings are always before My eyes.

    Your people will hasten back, while your enemies depart. Look around, your children gather and come to you. They will be as ornaments in the Land.

    Once the Land was desolate. Your enemies are now far away. The children born while the Land was occupied by foreigners will now say: This place is too small for us. Zion will say; who bore these children, when I was deserted, where did they come from?

    The Lord says; I shall signal to the nations, they will carefully transport My people to their Promised Land. Kings will be your sponsors and great people will serve and honour you. You will know that I am the Lord, none who trust in Me will be disappointed.

    Zion: The holy Land, forsaken and desolate, Jeremiah 22:6-7, Hosea 4:3, that is how it will be after the next prophesied event: The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, an explosion of the sun, directed at the Middle East that will clear and cleanse the entire area. Currently most of the holy Land is occupied by atheists or false religion worshippers. The Jews will be judged, Zechariah 13:7-9, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Hosea 4:3, Zephaniah 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17

    ‘the enemies depart, they are now far away’: Psalms 83 and Micah 4:11 tell us how the surrounding nations and entities all hate Israel and want to ‘wipe them off the map’. Those attackers will all be killed, some by their own weapons; Psalms 7:12-16, and the rest of the inhabitants will flee. Jeremiah 49:4-5 & 35-37

    Your people will hasten back’: A part of Judah has returned, but very few are true believers and they all face judgement. A remnant will survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 6:13 We are told who are the Lord’s people: Romans 9:24-26, Psalms 24:3-5, Malachi 3:16-17

    The Lord’s people, all those who put their trust in Him’: are gathered and transported to all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Isaiah 66:18b-20, Psalms 107, Jeremiah 23:3-4, Zechariah 9:16 On that Day their God will save them, they will sparkle like jewels in the Land.

    ‘The Promised Land’: will be regenerated and become fruitful. Joel 2:21-24, Psalms 126:1-5

    Ezekiel 36:8-12 You, mountains of Israel, put forth your branches and bear fruit, for the homecoming of your people is near. Isaiah 51:3

    Isaiah 35:1-10 Let thedesert be glad, let it flower and rejoice!...Be strong, My people, fear not your God comes to save you with His vengeance and retribution. Then understanding will be given to all who couldn’t see or comprehend the Prophetic Word. A highway will appear and by that road, the Lord’s redeemed people will travel into their heritage. His holy people, set free will enter Zion with shouts of praise for their Redeemer. Gladness and joy will come upon them and suffering and sorrow will be gone.

    Psalms 48:11-14 The hills of Zion rejoice, Judah’s cities are glad. Walk about the holy Land, count the towers. Note the fortifications and buildings, so that you can tell about them to the coming generations. For this God is our God, our guide and protector, now and forever.

    Psalms 69:35-36 For God will deliver Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah. The children of those who serve Him will inherit the Land and those who love His Name will dwell there.

    Isaiah 55:11-13 You will go out with joy and be led forth in peace....the Land will rejoice at your coming. Reference: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged.

    That all this happens before the Return of Jesus in His glory, is made clear by Isaiah 49:23, ‘you will know that I am with you and I am the Lord’’. In the same way as He was for the ancient Israelites.
    First, His people will gather and settle in all of the holy Land. Those who serve the Lord will inherit the Land. They will fulfil prophecies and prepare for the eventual Millennial reign of Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
  16. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    A physical mark or an implant seems to be the most likely.
    Would people not be able to buy or sell based on an idea or physical technology?
     
  17. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    NO ONE will escape the Tribulation.
     
  18. JaeMelo

    JaeMelo Active Member

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    Because you heard people says its a barcode doesn't make it a symbolic event... If you think this is a symbolic event than you simply do not believe and its as simple as that. Not to fret though there is a place for non believers like you ;)
     
  19. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    The 'woman' of Revelation 12:1-16 escapes the GT.
    They are those people who stand firm in their faith and refuse to agree, when the Anti-Christ makes a peace treaty with new Israel. Daniel 11:32
    After the 1260 days of the GT, Jesus will Return and His angels will gather them back from their place of safety. Matthew 24:31
     
  20. Paul K

    Paul K Newbie

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    thank you for this discussions. It has been interesting. scoffers are indeed welcome, but remember, the whole point of this discussion is respectful discussion.

    Lately, It pains me to see that there are too many falling away and people who start to disbelieve in the bible.
    It will be very hard to disbelieve in the bible because of how many people have died believing in the scriptures and maintaining their faith in Jesus in the face of death. For example, I've read a book called Foxe book of martyrs. This book has countless short testimonies about people who were threatened to renounce their belief in Jesus, yet they refused, and they died in their belief. as for revelations, it is a very difficult book to understand, thats why we have this discussion to help each other understand better. I believe that the time is very near, but we are in the period of Matthew 24 where the world is going through birthing pain.

    The most important thing for christians to do is to keep our eyes fixed on Jesus and stand strong with the armour of God.

    P
     
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