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Scientists confirmed link between climate change and extreme weather

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by myst33, Jun 28, 2022.

  1. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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  2. Green Sun

    Green Sun 404: Star not found

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    Unsurprising, with the massive body of research and near-universal agreement among climate scientists that shows these effects will result from climate change, but it's good to have another piece of confirmation.

    I wish this would be enough for the people that will never accept any bit of evidence that anthropogenic climate change is real.
     
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  3. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    I heard this effect explained in a simple clear way on the radio the other day.

    To be an extreme heat day in a given location, the heat index in that location has to be at or above a certain fixed level.

    All the time, the way weather works is that there is distribution of days that are hotter and cooler than the average for that day, like this:

    Actually....looking for a graphic, I found the full explanation in a graphic:

    [​IMG]
    Record High Temps vs. Record Low Temps

    As you can see, simply if the climate warms by a given amount, such as 1 degree C, it moves the entire curve of a daily temperature variation graph to the right a little, so that the amount of probability for a summer day to end up inside the "Extreme Hot Weather" is increased.

    Thus more heat waves more often.
     
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  4. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    The finding on rainfall was interesting also:

    The likelihood of heavy rainfall in certain parts of the world is around double.
     
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  5. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    It really come down to which "Scientists " one wants to believe. If one has truly searched then you know its not at all open and shut for all still do not agree. So please no offense but "with the massive body of research and near-universal agreement" this is not true

    We can lol find the "30,000" Scientist say there is no climate change or the "97% of Scientist believe man caused climate change". haha sure why not but both are not true. The fact the for and against climate change always leave out other facts. Sure great to go all green yeah! But it won't happen. No nation in our life times are going to do anything. We will be dead and gone and our Children and there children before even China does anything.
     
  6. mama2one

    mama2one Well-Known Member

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    why people don't recognize climate change is beyond me

    when I was a kid, we'd be trick or treating in snow in Oct!
    when I got married, we had snow in November or Dec

    now, we wait until February for winter to start!
    pretty soon we won't even get snow
     
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  7. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Theories can be wrong.

    Actual observations trump theories (and observations over decades of time are what gradually help us discard the wrong theories and see which ones are better).

    For global temperature -- the yearly average temperature of the entire world -- we can just observe it year after year.


    Here's what we see when we do that:

    [​IMG]
    Data.GISS: GISS Surface Temperature Analysis (v3): Analysis Graphs and Plots
     
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  8. Bradskii

    Bradskii Well-Known Member

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    This is anecdotal, but all the same...we had a years worth of rain in the first three months of this year. Terrible record breaking floods up and down the coast. I've lived here for over thirty years and it was by far the worst rains I have experienced.
     
  9. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Part of the IT crowd Supporter

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    I think most people recognize it (although, I've met a few "head in the sand" types of people who deny it outright)

    ...I think the main division is centered around how immediate/catastrophic it is, and the legislative efforts proposed to address it.

    I listen to some podcasts/speeches/shows/debates/etc... from people on both side of the fence.

    While there are a few that make silly claims like "climate change is a just a liberal hoax", the more prevailing theory I hear from conservative types on the issue is

    "
    Is the climate changing? Yes
    Are humans the cause of it? Most likely
    Do I think it's going to kill us in the next 50 years? Probably not
    Is imposing a bunch of strict restrictions on ourselves (that will harm us in international trade in competition with China and India) going to solve the issue? No
    "

    ...and they do have a point there. Even if the US did everything right starting tomorrow, that only addresses 10% of the problem, and China (who's responsible for a third of the problem, globally) becoming more competitive against all of the western countries - and likely not going to be changing their behavior anytime soon - isn't a good thing.

    It'd be one thing if it were a scenario where "If the US does everything right starting tomorrow, climate crisis = solved in 5 years, and if we don't do it, we'll all be dead in 10 years", that would be worth making some economic concessions for.

    However, if imposing a bunch of strict rules on ourselves isn't going to solve the problem (and we know China, India, and Russia aren't going to play ball and change their systems), people in the business sector are right to have some objections to some of the proposals.
     
  10. roman2819

    roman2819 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So typically human to act now only when it is 20 years too late, after the north pole has melted 40% and ocean level has raised causing frequent floods.
     
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  11. mama2one

    mama2one Well-Known Member

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    people won't rise up & call for action until water is in their yards and/or their homes float away
     
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  12. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    Does human-induced climate change include HAARP? If so, then of course they've confirmed what they always knew about. Blame it on mankind...across the board ...not on the actual perps... and keep the depopulation plan rolling.
     
  13. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    We know CO2 (carbon dioxide) is a greenhouse gas that does cause warming of entire planets with actual proof, with the planet Venus as a dramatic example. Venus has much CO2 and is far hotter than it would be just from normal sunlight and radiating heat at that distance from the sun. Venus due to the strong CO2 effect of retaining heat is about 850F on the surface.

    At that distance from the Sun, Venus without an atmosphere would be about 130F on the surface.

    But it is 850F, because the thick CO2 atmosphere holds in heat by reflecting the infrared heat radiation back downward towards the surface.
     
  14. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Part of the IT crowd Supporter

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    People can call for action all they'd like...even if 100% of people in the US got on board with every climate recommendation domestically, it'll be the same end result if the plan doesn't include "make China, Russia, and India also follow the same strict set of regulations"

    ...and I'm not sure how you control the ecological regulations of 3 other sovereign nations apart from sanctions (which as we're seeing, has blowback), and even if we went that route, then comes the challenge of trying control the purchasing decisions of 2 dozen + other nations who will still likely wish to buy from them over us if they keep using established/cheaper energy sources resulting in them being able to offer a much better price than we can.

    I have no qualms with ecological/environmental regulations as a concept, but there needs to be some sort of tangible payoff in the form of a problem getting solved. It can't be a case where we impose a bunch of rules on ourselves (that make us less competitive in the global market), and the only payoff is getting bragging rights about "hey, everyone, look at the good thing we did" (while the other 4 on the "Top 5 Polluters" list keep pumping smog into the sky at the same rate they always were)
     
  15. ToddNotTodd

    ToddNotTodd Iconoclast

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    Of all the many Republicans I know, exactly... zero... believe in climate change, man-made or not.

    Climate change isn't "on" or "off" like a light switch. It's varying degrees of impact based on what you put into it. The idea that the US shouldn't do anything because it won't "solve" climate change (whatever that means) makes zero sense.
     
  16. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Part of the IT crowd Supporter

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    So perhaps "solve" was the wrong word to use, let's use "change the trajectory to a meaningful degree"

    If the US started doing everything right tomorrow (and China Russia and India maintained the status quo), what impact do you think that would have on the trajectory?

    If the answer is "negligible", then it's not worth weakening ourselves economically and making China and Russia stronger if the end result is going to be basically the same.

    In fact, they may start ramping up fossil fuel usage once they have more customers lining up to purchase certain things from instead of US when we have to raise our prices.


    Even the more ambitious initiatives behind this acknowledge that without China & India playing ball, we're destined for the same types of climate crises.
    A 100 Percent Clean Future

    There's a lot of moving parts here that all need to be moving in unison. (and several of them aren't within the control of the US)

    Initiatives that purely focus on domestic behavior, or borderline punitive measures against US business owners, aren't going to make a dent in the problem and end up creating different kinds of issues in other realms.

    Despite what 17 year old Swedish "climate experts" would have everyone believe, combating climate change isn't just as simple as "Four simple steps of fly & drive less, eat less meat, protest for climate equality, and <insert series of generic platitudes about the science>".
     
  17. ToddNotTodd

    ToddNotTodd Iconoclast

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    Define "dent", and show your statement to be true.
     
  18. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    The difference is that this climate change is global.

    She noticed the winters are basically going away in the USA, I notice it here in the Central Europe, temperatures are record high in Antarctica... Its not just some local experience.
     
  19. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Part of the IT crowd Supporter

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    In this context, "dent" means "meaningful change"

    I provided the article from AmericanProgress.

    They're quite left leaning and the article is very pro-environment.

    In their own words:

    To achieve meaningful change on fossil fuel financing, the United States and others will have to press China, which is not subject to OECD guidelines, to adopt the same approach.

    Success would require the United States, the United Nations, and China to partner on this effort, given China is the largest source of financing for fossil fuel projects in developing countries.

    It is clear that to make significant and sustainable progress at the global level, a new administration will have to prioritize its engagement with China



    In other words, if the US and a handful of other first-world countries impose strict self-limits, and China is left to keep doing what they're doing, we're going to get crushed in international trade, China's economy (and influence) will grow stronger, and the climate issue still won't get solved.

    In terms of making meaningful change on the climate issues, "all roads lead to China" as it were. Not only are they the number 1 polluter with no close 2nd...they're the primary financier for dozens of other nations' fossil fuel projects in the developing world.

    Without measures pressing forcing them to change their behavior (and how would that be done?), us only imposing limits on ourselves equates to "in order to solve the drunk driving problem, we're going to only have 5 beers instead of 6 before driving home", in other words, negligible impact.
     
  20. mama2one

    mama2one Well-Known Member

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    it's bad that all the countries won't do something before it's too late!

    our kids & their children's children will be definitely more affected than any of us
    we won't be able to help them as we'll be gone
     
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