Scientific evidence FOR or AGAINST the existence of god.

[Strathos]

What do you call BC & AD on the Gregorian & Julian calendars, religious organizations, artwork, edifices, hymns & carols, greetings, bumper stickers, literature, icons, statuary, legislation, holidays, debates, websites, and martyrs?

I thought you were the one always saying there was no scientific evidence left behind.

 

[AV1611VET]

I thought you were the one always saying there was no scientific evidence left behind.

Yes, indeed.

But this evidence is of the "effect type."

In other words, just as we don't see gravity, but see its effects, we don't see God, but we see the effects of His interactions.

 

[HitchSlap]

What do you call BC & AD on the Gregorian & Julian calendars, religious organizations, artwork, edifices, hymns & carols, greetings, bumper stickers, literature, icons, statuary, legislation, holidays, debates, websites, and martyrs?

Consumerism? Exploitation? Deception?

 

[AV1611VET]

Consumerism? Exploitation? Deception?

Is that how you see it?

 

[HitchSlap]

Is that how you see it?

You don't?

 

[AV1611VET]

You don't?

No.

I don't see the effects of gravity as consumerism, exploitation, or deception.

 

[Strathos]

Yes, indeed.

But this evidence is of the "effect type."

In other words, just as we don't see gravity, but see its effects, we don't see God, but we see the effects of His interactions.

And you would call that scientific evidence?

 

[HitchSlap]

No.

I don't see the effects of gravity as consumerism, exploitation, or deception.

Ah, I thought you mumbled something about religious organizations, bumper stickers, televangelists, yada, yada, yada.

Seems I forgot that you tend to conflate terms and regularly engage in semantics. Shame on me.

 

[Smidlee]

This is a supposition suggested as an attempt to rescue the inerrancy of the bible.

It would not make sense to see a measurement of two separate things in this passage.

2 Chron 4:2 Also he made the cast metal sea, ten cubits from brim to brim, circular in form, and its height was five cubits and its circumference thirty cubits.
NASU

Where else in scripture do you find the same measurement given twice two different ways? In Kings 7:26 it's written, "and the brim was wrought like the brim of a cup." I have cups in my kitchen that the brim is wider than the cup. How would you measure the brim but by straight across and how would the measure the pool (cup) itself but by measuring around about.
When common sense makes plain sense there is no reason looking for any other sense.

 

[Smidlee]

He didn't explain it away. What he is saying is that our ability to discover scientific truths is a side effect of a brain that evolved for survival.

If our brain is a product of evolution then our brain are not wired to know truth but only to survive. That would included man's belief in his own evolution which is self-refuting.

 

[Loudmouth]

If our brain is a product of evolution then our brain are not wired to know truth but only to survive.

Precisely. That is why we have to use things such as the scientific method to make sure that what we perceive as truth is actually truth. We have biases that cause us to make false associations, and those biases come from our evolutionary past.

That would included man's belief in his own evolution which is self-refuting.

It isn't a belief.

 

[HitchSlap]

If our brain is a product of evolution then our brain are not wired to know truth but only to survive. That would included man's belief in his own evolution which is self-refuting.

Preach it, brother Smidlee.

 

[Smidlee]

Precisely. That is why we have to use things such as the scientific method to make sure that what we perceive as truth is actually truth. We have biases that cause us to make false associations, and those biases come from our evolutionary past.

In order to use the scientific method you have to use your biological brain which you believe is not intelligent designed.

 

[Loudmouth]

In order to use the scientific method you have to use your biological brain which you believe is not intelligent designed.

Why would our brain need to be intelligently designed in order to use the scientific method?

 

[Smidlee]

Why would our brain need to be intelligently designed in order to use the scientific method?

you only know what you know. How can a brain do science unless it is intelligent designed? Remember you don't actually "know" the outside world but the interpretation of your own mind.

 

[HitchSlap]

you only know what you know. How can a brain do science unless it is intelligent designed? Remember you don't actually "know" the outside world but the interpretation of your own mind.

Which is why we all make three fundamental assumptions.

1. Reality exists.
2. We can know something about reality.
3. Models with predictive capabilities work better than those without.

 

[Smidlee]

Which is why we all make three fundamental assumptions.

1. Reality exists.
2. We know something about reality.
3. Models with predictive capabilities work better than those without.

Then how we know what we know. If intelligent design is wired into our brains then the conclusion our brain is also ID or how else could it know ID.

 

[Loudmouth]

you only know what you know. How can a brain do science unless it is intelligent designed? Remember you don't actually "know" the outside world but the interpretation of your own mind.

You are the one making the claim that a brain has to be intelligently designed in order to use the scientific method. You support the claim.

 

[Smidlee]

You are the one making the claim that a brain has to be intelligently designed in order to use the scientific method. You support the claim.

Using the scientific method assumes our brain are wired to understand the outside world which is also wired to "see" intelligent design.

 

[HitchSlap]

Then how we know what we know. If intelligent design is wired into our brains then the conclusion our brain is also ID or how else could it know ID.

Personally, I think this claim is nonsense and reject it out of hand. Maybe you could frame this in a more cogent manner?