School gun left lying around for Ohio elementary students

Erik Nelson

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Erik Nelson

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With great power comes great responsibility.

Whomever left this around children needs to be fired and jailed.
and not random people unconnected to the incident by any careful, methodical, professional police investigations

alibis count
 
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High Fidelity

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and not random people unconnected to the incident by any careful, methodical, professional police investigations

alibis count

Correct. But when there is a prevalence of crime stemming from certain things, conversations need to be held.

That's just common sense.
 
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Desk trauma

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Desk trauma

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Yep. Introducing guns into schools what can possibly go wrong!:doh:
After the Parkland shooting there was a rather strong knee jerk "arm every adult in the school" push here and I brought up the very real issue of that being more of a hazard than the current situation due to things like this happening.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Correct. But when there is a prevalence of crime stemming from certain things, conversations need to be held.

That's just common sense.
the police are already having all of the conversations the evidence warrants

no extraordinary claims (e.g. criminal guilt) without extraordinary evidence

only professionals successfully completing Police Academy get to drive the squad cars, to whomsoever they legitimately suspect may be involved, and no one else

if you're saying we can't trust adults at US schools, that's on those adults at those schools

some guy out hunting or target practicing at the time, of utterly no concern to law enforcement professionals, is of utterly no concern to this discussion -- unless we're taking it upon ourselves to backseat/passenger seat drive police squad cars

Tangentially, sea turtles choke & die because they can't tell the difference between superficially similar looking jellyfish vs. plastic bags. Sea turtles would be better off if they could discriminate jellyfish (actually worth going after) vs. plastic bags (look kinda similar on the outside from afar). That's the level of intelelation going on here between actual criminals in the US and law abiding US citizens who happen to kinda sorta look like them
 
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Erik Nelson

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After the Parkland shooting there was a rather strong knee jerk "arm every adult in the school" push here and I brought up the very real issue of that being more of a hazard than the current situation due to things like this happening.
sorry you can't trust adults in your children's schools

that's on those adults in those schools, though

and on no one else on earth
 
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Desk trauma

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sorry you can't trust adults in your children's schools

that's on those adults in those schools, though

and on no one else on earth
The issue is that school shootings are so rare that introducing more firearms is a larger risk.
 
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Desk trauma

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the police are already having all of the conversations the evidence warrants

no extraordinary claims (e.g. criminal guilt) without extraordinary evidence

only professionals successfully completing Police Academy get to drive the squad cars, to whomsoever they legitimately suspect may be involved, and no one else

if you're saying we can't trust adults at US schools, that's on those adults at those schools

some guy out hunting or target practicing at the time, of utterly no concern to law enforcement professionals, is of utterly no concern to this discussion -- unless we're taking it upon ourselves to backseat/passenger seat drive police squad cars

Tangentially, sea turtles choke & die because they can't tell the difference between superficially similar looking jellyfish vs. plastic bags. Sea turtles would be better off if they could discriminate jellyfish (actually worth going after) vs. plastic bags (look kinda similar on the outside from afar). That's the level of intelelation going on here between actual criminals in the US and law abiding US citizens who happen to kinda sorta look like them

You're putting in a great deal of effort to feel put upon.
 
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Erik Nelson

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The issue is that school shootings are so rare that introducing more firearms is a larger risk.
If you're right, that's because you can't trust the adults charged with handling firearms on school campuses

I'm sorry you can't find responsible people

That doesn't mean hunters & target practicers 100s-1000s of miles away, completing NRA gun education courses, aren't responsible users of their own firearms

Surely, you drive your car responsibly

Tens of thousands of DUIs and worse on US streets every year

Surely, not your fault, nothing on you, you get to keep your license, because you're responsible

After all, it's not cars that run over people... it's only a relative few irresponsible drivers... right ?
 
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Desk trauma

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If you're right, that's because you can't trust the adults charged with handling firearms on school campuses

I'm sorry you can't find responsible people

Responsible people make errors. School shootings are so rare that those errors pose a larger risk than the shootings.

That doesn't mean hunters & target practicers 100s-1000s of miles away, completing NRA gun education courses, aren't responsible users of their own firearms

Why do you keep bringing up this irrelevancy?
 
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Erik Nelson

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Why do you keep bringing up this irrelevancy?
totally relevant

cars can be lethal in the wrong hands

yours are the right hands

tens of millions of hunters & target practicers feel exactly the same about their own firearms

perfectly comparable
 
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Desk trauma

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totally relevant

I don't see how it is in any way relevant to the subject of the article you posted, the very real risks that added guns in schools pose, or the issue of school shootings themselves.

cars can be lethal in the wrong hands

yours are the right hands

tens of millions of hunters & target practicers feel exactly the same about their own firearms

perfectly comparable

I don't see the comparison to anything in the article at all.
 
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FenderTL5

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I don't see how it is in any way relevant to the subject of the article you posted, the very real risks that added guns in schools pose, or the issue of school shootings themselves.

I don't see the comparison to anything in the article at all.
I'm afraid you are missing the point he refuses to state explicitly.

A gun was left out in the open - now we must have a police investigation to determine who the irresponsible gun owner was. He thinks this is proper and right (which I'm not opposing thus far) but is as far as it should go. Keep it to the specific here. We have one irresponsible person and that irresponsibility is full-stop limited here.

What he's insinuating, is the idea of all gun owners registering their weapons, allowing LEO to simply query a computer and find the irresponsible person in a matter of seconds is an imposition to his and all other gun owner's rights.
That may or may not be true in the current legal climate.

What his objection is; he doesn't want the irresponsibility of the one person in this school to be addressed toward all gun owners.

What's really interesting, is he brings cars into this - which are registered and tagged. Along with driver's who must pass a written and skills test in order to obtain a license for operation. Legal operation, in most places, also requires a minimum level of liability insurance.
 
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cow451

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totally relevant

cars can be lethal in the wrong hands

yours are the right hands

tens of millions of hunters & target practicers feel exactly the same about their own firearms

perfectly comparable
Good drivers are human. They can and make mistakes. Gun owners do not become free of their humanity merely by ownership of a firearm.
 
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Nithavela

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totally relevant

cars can be lethal in the wrong hands

yours are the right hands

tens of millions of hunters & target practicers feel exactly the same about their own firearms

perfectly comparable
If guns were treated like cars in the USA, with license requirements, registrations and taxes, you'd be a huge leap ahead in terms of regulation.
 
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cow451

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If guns were treated like cars in the USA, with license requirements, registrations and taxes, you'd be a huge leap ahead in terms of regulation.
Sounds like a great idea
 
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