Scholastic Orthodoxy?

[J. Elias]

Blessings to all!

I have posted in this forum once before, but I return for more! For those who don't know, I'm a student of philosophy and theology that's examining Orthodoxy and searching for truth.

From my understanding, the Orthodox Church tends to be very mystical with most tradition and theology. Unlike how the West developed many types of systematic theology, the East left much room for mysticism in their theology (the good kind, from what I tell!).

My problem is that I was born non-denominational, but went Reformed because of the intellectual side of faith. It seems essential to me to understand something (at least vaguely) before one can come to accept it. And, as my love of philosophy may betray, I'm a very analytical individual, and so my perspectives on theology and faith have largely been based on "what makes sense".

However, it's difficult for me to understand Orthodoxy because there are not (as far as I can tell) any world-class theologians that hail from the East. Catholics have Augustine, Aquinas, etc. while Protestants have Calvin, Luther, Edwards, Wesley, and all the rest. Even Anglicans have N.T. Wright, among others.

I just had a couple questions about all this. Why are Orthodox, for the most part, practically unheard of? And are there any resources I could access that would help me get a comprehensive understanding of the Orthodox tradition? Obviously I don't suspect one could "fully" grasp it without participation in liturgy and worship and soforth, but is there some sort of academic basis I might be able to start on so I can wrap my head around it all?

Many thanks to all who respond!

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

As for world class theologians, the East has the all the Church Fathers and particularly St. John Chrysostom. He was probably one of the greatest Christian preachers in history.

For more modern theologians, check out Alexander Schmemann-he's terrific.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Why are Orthodox, for the most part, practically unheard of?

because we are an extreme minority in the West

And are there any resources I could access that would help me get a comprehensive understanding of the Orthodox tradition?

the Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by St John of Damascus is a good start, but also The Catechetical Lectures of St Cyril of Jerusalem, Orthodox Dogmatic Theology by Fr Michael Pomazansky, The Orthodox Faith by Fr Thomas Hopko, The Orthodox Church by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, the Law of God by Fr Seraphim Slobodskoy

Obviously I don't suspect one could "fully" grasp it without participation in liturgy and worship and soforth, but is there some sort of academic basis I might be able to start on so I can wrap my head around it all?

sure, but your best bet is to go to your local parish, and talk to that priest about where to go. he can one on one you much better and help your academic curiosity.

welcome to TAW, hope you stick around!

and if you want other great names from us, we have Sts John Chrysostom, Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian, Maximos the Confessor, Gregory of Nyssa, Justin Martyr, Cyril of Alexandria, etc

 

[graphite412]

I would recommend check out the Orthodox Survival course that Fr. Seraphim Rose did a while back. It is kind of a bootleg piecing together from lecture notes, but it is a fascinating read about theology and philosophy since the great schism. It is really brief but gives an Orthodox critique of Western civilization. Be warned that it is normally found on schismatic websites which happen to like Fr. Seraphim. Hopefully St. Herman of Alaska press will get around to publishing it as a book sometime soon.

The podcast Paradise and Utopia, by Fr. John Strickland is similar to the Orthodox Survival Course and there are hours and hours of this podcast that can be listened to for free on ancientfaith.com

I also really got a lot out of the "Triads" by St. Gregory Palamas, which is a lot like Eastern Orthodox mysticism vs Scholasticism.

Also there are tons of Orthodox theologians they are just not well know in the West. I have yet to read it but "The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church," by Vladimir Lossky has been a very pivotal book for many people looking into Orthodoxy.

 

[Unlearner]

Elias,

I have a strong grounding in Western philosophy and theology as well. I studied to be an Anglican priest before starting the conversion process and studied philosophy in college. The Orthodox of this forum can answer your specific questions better than I, but I thought you may benefit from my personal experience.

I wouldn't worry so much about "making sense" of things in the abstract. If there's a parish near you, go experience it... multiple times. That's what it took for me. I visited occasionally over a period of about a year before I finally talked to a priest about catechumenate. The other thing that I've found valuable is not so much studying the theology (read the Fathers if you want to know Orthodox theology) but reading the lives and teachings of modern elders who are emblematic of Orthodox faith and life. If you're ok with purchasing a book or two, I recommend you look into Elder Paisios, Elder Thaddeus, or Elder Porphyrios.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If you're ok with purchasing a book or two, I recommend you look into Elder Paisios, Elder Thaddeus, or Elder Porphyrios.

I would wholeheartedly agree. My SF had me reading a couple of books at once - perhaps theology, asceticism, and lives of Saints. While I love theology, and get a lot out of ascetical writings, it seems I am so often drawn to and stay in writings by and about Saints.

Those three would be the ones I'd be most likely to recommend too. I have tremendously enjoyed reading them.

Depending on when the book was written, their titles might change.

Elias (or anyone interested) can look for them as St. Paisios the Athonite, Elder Thaddeus of Vitovnica, and St. Porphyrios as well.

 

[Unlearner]

I would wholeheartedly agree. My SF had me reading a couple of books at once - perhaps theology, asceticism, and lives of Saints. While I love theology, and get a lot out of ascetical writings, it seems I am so often drawn to and stay in writings by and about Saints.

Those three would be the ones I'd be most likely to recommend too. I have tremendously enjoyed reading them.

Depending on when the book was written, their titles might change.

Elias (or anyone interested) can look for them as St. Paisios the Athonite, Elder Thaddeus of Vitovnica, and St. Porphyrios as well.

I'm currently reading Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives (Elder Thaddeus) - absolutely stunning.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'm reading in that one too. I've actually found reading and re-reading it to make a difference as life circumstances change.

I think it's a great book for anyone, anytime.

I'm currently reading Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives (Elder Thaddeus) - absolutely stunning.

 

[mcarmichael]

I think so...

 

[mcarmichael]

"The Sayings of the Desert Fathers" is also supposed to be very good. I need to pick that one up for myself.

 

[mcarmichael]

I think a good place to start is also St. John Chrysostom's Divine Liturgy. Or any prayer book, fwiw.

 

[E.C.]

Welcome to TAW!

I just had a couple questions about all this. Why are Orthodox, for the most part, practically unheard of?

Oh, simple geography and ignorance.

Most Orthodox people are located in Eastern Europe vice Protestantism and Catholicism in Western Europe. Some of those in between, like Poles and Slovaks who may have been exposed to Orthodoxy, see the Orthodox as being linked to Russian politicians who historically treated non-Russians as less than dirt.

And we get lumped in with the Roman Catholics a lot.

And are there any resources I could access that would help me get a comprehensive understanding of the Orthodox tradition?

Like an Orthodoxy 101?

The first two that come to mind are the book "The Orthodox Church" by Timothy Ware and The Orthodox Faith series by the late Fr. Thomas Hopko which can be read online for free here: The Orthodox Faith

Obviously I don't suspect one could "fully" grasp it without participation in liturgy and worship and soforth, but is there some sort of academic basis I might be able to start on so I can wrap my head around it all?

In terms of theology or history?

 

[Cappadocious]

However, it's difficult for me to understand Orthodoxy because there are not (as far as I can tell) any world-class theologians that hail from the East.

Here are a few responses:

There are still a lot of important Greek works that aren't translated into English. Part of the reason why is that during the Renaissance, later Byzantine Greek was viewed as inferior, and the vulgar form even more so. The same thing happened with Latin; believe it or not, there are amazing works just coming into English from late medieval Latin, as well. Part of the reason why we have more Latin content, though, is because the West had a greater practical use of medieval Latin coming into the Renaissance.

So part of it has to do with translation priority bias, you could say.

Second, you say:

Catholics have Augustine, Aquinas, etc. while Protestants have Calvin, Luther, Edwards, Wesley, and all the rest. Even Anglicans have N.T. Wright, among others.

Catholics do have Augustine and Aquinas. Luther and Calvin? Eh... and Edwards, Wesley? N.T. Wright? Not theologians anywhere near the level of Aquinas. So I'd cross them off the list.

As for big theologians in the Orthodox church, here are two big ones I think you'll like:

Photius the Great
Gregory Palamas

is there some sort of academic basis I might be able to start on so I can wrap my head around it all?

I think it is largely an indulgence but since we share the boutique desire to apply modern analytics to theology, see if you can get this through library loan:

The One Hundred and Fifty Chapters

Do not use the philokalia.

 

[Arsenios]

You can LISTEN to Fr. Thomas Hopko on Ancient Faith Radio online for free [archives]

The best I encountered was on Jan 1st some years back, first coffee in the morning, at my kitchen table, alone, in Roslyn, WA on W. 5th. [Jes' sayin! ] As I opened the book, I heard noetically: "This is the truth."

So I read it as the truth, and it was utterly eye-opening...

Which book? Lossky's "The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church"

And do not overlook Bp Hierotheos Vlachos, and his Professor, Fr. John Romanides of blessed memory...

Orthodoxy, however, is a practical Faith... Its Mystical Tradition comes, rarely, out of this [ascetical] praxis... Yet it is utterly life-transforming...

Arsenios

 

[Hermit76]

I think you have to wade into Orthodoxy to appreciate the depth of the Fathers, both ancient and contemporary. The humility of these men will simply not allow for a marketing of their insight.