Scholars on BOTH sides agree - Saturday is the seventh day - the Sabbath of Exodus 20

1stcenturylady

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You are merely "quoting you" as your proof.

And of course you are free to speculate and have your opinion... you do have free will.

No, I'm quoting Romans 8:2, 8-9
 
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Ronald

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I agreed with you up until the last part on Romans 7 which you alluded to. This was what it was like for Paul as a former Pharisee under the law trying in his own strength to keep it. Who can save me from this body of death - Jesus. So Jesus gift of the indwelling of His Spirit is the end to that battle of the mind and spirit.

Romans 6 asks why sin when we have died to sin through Christ. That is what happens when we have been baptized with the Spirit. And you are right, we are not even a Christian is we have not been baptized with Christ's Spirit. Romans 8:8-9

This doesn't mean that we are robots, we can still sin if we do not crucify the flesh. Paul said, "I die daily." The power of the flesh is gone, but we still have free will. We can make it very hard on ourselves if we do not choose our friends wisely, or if we become unequally yoked with unbelievers. This is the reason for regular assembling ourselves with a close-knit gathering of believers. If we go to a large church, it is the reason they should be offering cell groups for Bible study and socializing. Any who do not, ask why not. It is very important.
No, no, no, this was Paul's ongoing struggle and is the struggle of every Christian, the thorn in his side that he lived with after he became a Christian. We still sin, it is not sin unto death but do not deceive yourself and say you do not still sin. This was not a reference to Saul, but Paul. You are mistaken. Christians who are born again have this duel nature until we die and are separated from it. We still have the flesh (sarx) along with the spirit, they war against each other. Sin dwells in the members of our flesh and we will part from it when we die and ascend at which point our pure and spotless spirit will separate from our fleshly souls. If you think you are living a perfect life, think again, not yet, not until we are transformed and given new eternal bodies or we die before that happens. Sin has no power over us any more but we back slide and fall into it, into our old selves and ways.
 
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1stcenturylady

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No, no, no, this was Paul's ongoing struggle and is the struggle of every Christian, the thorn in his side that he lived with after he became a Christian. We still sin, it is not sin unto death but do not deceive yourself and say you do not still sin. This was not a reference to Saul, but Paul. You are mistaken. Christians who are born again have this duel nature until we die and are separated from it. We still have the flesh (sarx) along with the spirit, they war against each other. Sin dwells in the members of our flesh and we will part from it when we die and ascend at which point our pure and spotless spirit will separate from our fleshly souls. If you think you are living a perfect life, think again, not yet, not until we are transformed and given new eternal bodies or we die before that happens. Sin has no power over us any more but we back slide and fall into it, into our old selves and ways.

What you are saying has been taught in the church for centuries. But that is not what the apostles preached.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
 
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BobRyan

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No, I'm quoting Romans 8:2, 8-9

?? skipping over 3-7??

Paul identifies those who "can't keep the Law" as the lost - because the saved walk in the Spirit.

Romans 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

James 2 argues that "he who is guilty of one - is guilty of all" when it comes to the LAW of God - not as an effort to try and get all the saints to "take God's name in vain - after all obedience is hopeless" - but rather James 2 is arguing FOR obedience to God - not rebellion
 
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1stcenturylady

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?? skipping over 3-7??

Paul identifies those who "can't keep the Law" as the lost - because the saved walk in the Spirit.

Romans 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

James 2 argues that "he who is guilty of one - is guilty of all" when it comes to the LAW of God - not as an effort to try and get all the saints to "take God's name in vain - after all obedience is hopeless" - but rather James 2 is arguing FOR obedience to God - not rebellion

Well, to not offend, how about Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21! LOL
 
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BobRyan

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What you are saying has been taught in the church for centuries. But that is not what the apostles preached.
1 John 3
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

"Sin Is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

1 John 3
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 2:1 "these things I write THAT you sin NOT - and IF anyone does sin we have an advocate with the Father - Jesus Christ"

So then "yes" it is still sin to "Take God's name in vain" -- yes even for Christians. And Christians are not supposed to do it -- in real life.
 
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BobRyan

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No, no, no, this was Paul's ongoing struggle and is the struggle of every Christian, the thorn in his side that he lived with after he became a Christian. We still sin, it is not sin unto death but do not deceive yourself and say you do not still sin. This was not a reference to Saul, but Paul. You are mistaken. Christians who are born again have this duel nature until we die and are separated from it.

True - we have sinful nature of Romans 3 and Romans 7 -- AND we have the new nature of John 3 and 2Cor 5.

STILL - Paul identifies those who "can't keep the Law" as the lost - because the saved walk in the Spirit.

Romans 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

James 2 argues that "he who is guilty of one - is guilty of all" when it comes to the LAW of God - not as an effort to try and get all the saints to "take God's name in vain - after all obedience is hopeless" - but rather James 2 is arguing FOR obedience to God - not rebellion

Sin has no power over us any more but we back slide and fall into it, into our old selves and ways.

Which is the argument Paul makes in Romans 6 - we who died to sin are not to live in it.
 
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BobRyan

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Well, to not offend, how about Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21! LOL

All good verses.

My Bible has 66 books - not "just 27" or "just 23" :)

Here is a thread where nobody has come out in opposition to the OP statement. It just does not "get" any better than this on this section of CF.
 
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1stcenturylady

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All good verses.

My Bible has 66 books - not "just 27" or "just 23" :)

Here is a thread where nobody has come out in opposition to the OP statement. It just does not "get" any better than this on this section of CF.

23? Whose Bible has only 23?

Mine actually has 67, because I include the Epistle of Barnabas. You wouldn't like it.

Edit: Oh, you mean all but the 4 gospels? Some don't like Paul, so minus 14.
 
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BobRyan

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23? Whose Bible has only 23?

There are a number of people on this thread that oppose the teaching of Christ in places like Mark 7 and Matthew 19 because there he explicitly affirms AND teaches the TEN Commandments. They argue we should not follow the teaching of Christ because it is before the cross. For them "Christian teaching" does not start until the book of Acts

Their Bible has 23 books.
 
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ToBeLoved

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No, no, no, this was Paul's ongoing struggle and is the struggle of every Christian, the thorn in his side that he lived with after he became a Christian.
Sin although it is a thorn in one's side was not the thorn in his side that Paul kept asking to have removed by God.
 
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ToBeLoved

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There are a number of people on this thread that oppose the teaching of Christ in places like Mark 7 and Matthew 19 because there he explicitly affirms AND teaches the TEN Commandments. They argue we should not follow the teaching of Christ because it is before the cross. For them "Christian teaching" does not start until the book of Acts

Their Bible has 23 books.
What denominations theology is that and which posts are they so I can go back and look.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Sin although it is a thorn in one's side was not the thorn in his side that Paul kept asking to have removed by God.

Right, it was false teachers and Judaizers.
 
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Ronald

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What you are saying has been taught in the church for centuries. But that is not what the apostles preached.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
So when the Holy Spirit came in you, you immediately stopped sinning? You are deceiving yourself. This sin is not sin unto death I'm talking about. Our sins past, present and future have been forgiven. I hate to burst your bubble, but you are not perfect. No Christian becomes perfect. What actually happens is you are washed of your sins and your spirit becomes alive when you are born again. Your spirit remains pure, it has to, this is where the Holy Spirit dwells in you. However, you still have the fleshly part of you, where sin dwells. That part of you is sanctified but not instantly, if takes a lifetime or spiritual growth.
Do you really think you are without sin and spiritually mature? No, sorry. I was confused about this very thing when I first became a Christian. Why do think Catholics go to confession every week? Do you think the whole Catholic church is confused about this? I don't know what church you sit in or who teaches you but they are teaching you wrong. The Bible commands us to confess our sins to one another.
Romans 6:12 speaks to the Christian: "Therefore do not sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts." Sin doesn't have power over us but we are able to fall back (backslide) into our old self again.
Again to the Christian: "Do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to god as being alive from the dead..."vs13
Paul said, "BUT NOW, IT IS NO LONGER I WHO DO IT, BUT SIN THAT DWELLS IN ME." Rom.7:17

Let me go through your 1 John 3 scriptures: vs 4 - He who commits sin/lawlessness. (This is speaking of those who practice sin and have not come to the Lord) In verse 7 it speaks of those who practice righteousness.
One does not practice sin unless he is a slave to it nor righteousness unless he is a slave to God. vs. 8 - "He who sins is of the Devil" (so Christ was manifest to destroy his works is just a snapshot of humanity and Christ's solution). I too got stuck on 1 John 3:9 for a long time until I realized, yes, I still break God's commandments on occasion. I'm not a slave to them, have been freed from bondage and judgment but I, like Paul have sin that dwells in the members of my flesh.
 
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Ronald

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What you are saying has been taught in the church for centuries. But that is not what the apostles preached.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So when the Holy Spirit came in you, you immediately stopped sinning? You are deceiving yourself. This sin is not sin unto death I'm talking about. Our sins past, present and future have been forgiven. I hate to burst your bubble, but you are not perfect. No Christian becomes perfect. What actually happens is you are washed of your sins and your spirit becomes alive when you are born again. Your spirit remains pure, it has to, this is where the Holy Spirit dwells in you. However, you still have the fleshly part of you, where sin dwells. That part of you is sanctified but not instantly, if takes a lifetime or spiritual growth.
Do you really think you are without sin and spiritually mature? No, sorry. I was confused about this very thing when I first became a Christian. Why do think Catholics go to confession every week? Do you think the whole Catholic church is confused about this? I don't know what church you sit in or who teaches you but they are teaching you wrong. The Bible commands us to confess our sins to one another.
Romans 6:12 speaks to the Christian: "Therefore do not sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts." Sin doesn't have power over us but we are able to fall back (backslide) into our old self again.
Again to the Christian: "Do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to god as being alive from the dead..."vs13
Paul said, "BUT NOW, IT IS NO LONGER I WHO DO IT, BUT SIN THAT DWELLS IN ME." Rom.7:17

Let me go through your 1 John 3 scriptures: vs 4 - He who commits sin/lawlessness. (This is speaking of those who practice sin and have not come to the Lord) In verse 7 it speaks of those who practice righteousness.
One does not practice sin unless he is a slave to it nor righteousness unless he is a slave to God. vs. 8 - "He who sins is of the Devil" (so Christ was manifest to destroy his works is just a snapshot of humanity and Christ's solution). I too got stuck on 1 John 3:9 for a long time until I realized, yes, I still break God's commandments on occasion. I'm not a slave to them, have been freed from bondage and judgment but I, like Paul have sin that dwells in the members of my flesh.
 
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1stcenturylady

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So when the Holy Spirit came in you, you immediately stopped sinning? You are deceiving yourself. This sin is not sin unto death I'm talking about. Our sins past, present and future have been forgiven. I hate to burst your bubble, but you are not perfect. No Christian becomes perfect. What actually happens is you are washed of your sins and your spirit becomes alive when you are born again. Your spirit remains pure, it has to, this is where the Holy Spirit dwells in you. However, you still have the fleshly part of you, where sin dwells. That part of you is sanctified but not instantly, if takes a lifetime or spiritual growth.
Do you really think you are without sin and spiritually mature? No, sorry. I was confused about this very thing when I first became a Christian. Why do think Catholics go to confession every week? Do you think the whole Catholic church is confused about this? I don't know what church you sit in or who teaches you but they are teaching you wrong. The Bible commands us to confess our sins to one another.
Romans 6:12 speaks to the Christian: "Therefore do not sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts." Sin doesn't have power over us but we are able to fall back (backslide) into our old self again.
Again to the Christian: "Do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to god as being alive from the dead..."vs13
Paul said, "BUT NOW, IT IS NO LONGER I WHO DO IT, BUT SIN THAT DWELLS IN ME." Rom.7:17

Let me go through your 1 John 3 scriptures: vs 4 - He who commits sin/lawlessness. (This is speaking of those who practice sin and have not come to the Lord) In verse 7 it speaks of those who practice righteousness.
One does not practice sin unless he is a slave to it nor righteousness unless he is a slave to God. vs. 8 - "He who sins is of the Devil" (so Christ was manifest to destroy his works is just a snapshot of humanity and Christ's solution). I too got stuck on 1 John 3:9 for a long time until I realized, yes, I still break God's commandments on occasion. I'm not a slave to them, have been freed from bondage and judgment but I, like Paul have sin that dwells in the members of my flesh.

What you described as your beliefs between your spirit and flesh is the old Gnostic heresy. I thought it had died centuries ago, but here you are keeping it alive.
 
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Ronald

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What you described as your beliefs between your spirit and flesh is the old Gnostic heresy. I thought it had died centuries ago, but here you are keeping it alive.
You say you are perfect, not a sinner? You just insulted me with a ludicrous claim - "gnostic heresy" accusation. You sound young and must be if you are celibate , that teenage vow you stood for -- good for you -- you're still a sinner and just your statement alone does not reflect love for your neighbor but contempt.
Well, why don't you go and ask a dozen pastors or priests from various churches other than your own: Do Christians still sin?
 
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1stcenturylady

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You say you are perfect, not a sinner? You just insulted me with a ludicrous claim - "gnostic heresy" accusation. You sound young and must be if you are celibate , that teenage vow you stood for -- good for you -- you're still a sinner and just your statement alone does not reflect love for your neighbor but contempt.
Well, why don't you go and ask a dozen pastors or priests from various churches other than your own: Do Christians still sin?

I only need to search the scriptures to know that the power of the Holy Spirit makes me dead to sin.

Those who willfully sin do not have a relationship with the Lord.
 
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bugkiller

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There are a number of people on this thread that oppose the teaching of Christ in places like Mark 7 and Matthew 19 because there he explicitly affirms AND teaches the TEN Commandments. They argue we should not follow the teaching of Christ because it is before the cross. For them "Christian teaching" does not start until the book of Acts

Their Bible has 23 books.
There are some people on this thread who do not know the difference between teaching and responding to questions.

Jesus can not be teaching keeping the 10 Cs is required to secure eternal life (enter heaven) and say anyone who does is a thief and must come through Him to get in. Your verses plus John 10.

bugkiller
 
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BobRyan

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There are some people on this thread who do not know the difference between teaching and responding to questions.

Jesus can not be teaching keeping the 10 Cs is required to secure eternal life (enter heaven) and say anyone who does is a thief and must come through Him to get in. Your verses plus John 10.

bugkiller

This thread is on the topic of Saturday being the Bible Sabbath that is mentioned in the Gospels, in Acts 18:4, in Exodus 20:11.

Would you like to join the discussion?
 
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