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Scholars on BOTH sides agree - Saturday is the seventh day - the Sabbath of Exodus 20

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by BobRyan, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    No your not. Your simply ignoring POST # 381 linked CLICK ME showing the scripture CONTEXT and you have ignored my challenge to you to prove I have put my own interpretation on the scriptures that show the CONTEXT you have left out of your interpretation of 1 JOHN 3:23. Anyhow I have provided God's WORD.

    I will leave this betweeen you and God. These are God's WORD'S not mine.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  2. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    this one. 1stcenturylady's point. Well made I might add. "And the one containing the Ten Commandments is the one that represents Ishmael, is of the flesh, and is to be cast out."

    The people of the new have authority over the people of the old, and the people of the new have determined that the fourth commandment is more fully served on The Lord's Day the first day of the week.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  3. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I believe every scripture you provided. That's not the problem.
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Now Eloy how do you interpret these scriptures and where do they say that God's 4th Commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well that has no truth in it whatsoever. If you did then you would not post the things you have posted.

    Anyhow I have to leave for now nice talking to you both @Eloy and @1stcenturylady. I only share God's WORD as a help and blessing to you.

    I hope you can think about the scriptures and questions asked of you.

    None of you answer to me or your Church come judgment day. All are accountable to God alone and will be judged by the Word of God alone (John 12:47-48) and is why God tells us to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Hebrews 10:31).

    Sin will keep all who KNOWINGLY practice it out of God's KINGDOM.

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

    May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD. :wave:
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  6. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    Emphasis mine. That is what you need it to be but not what it is. Your interpretation makes the name of the day precede the meaning of the day. It is not the Word of God it is your own.
     
  7. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    We don't have the same foundation in which to understand the same scriptures. Your head is still in the Old Testament, and ours is in the New. You preach law. We preach Spirit. The letter of the law kills, the Spirit of the law brings life. Oil and water don't mix, so we will argue this to doomsday. Until you have the Spirit of God in you, you will only see the law of sin and death, whereas we are free from sin due to the power of the Spirit within us. The law written on our hearts contain the spirit of the 4th commandment, but that is changed from rote obedience to complete trust in Jesus. Colossians 2 and Hebrews 4
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  8. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    Thank you.
    To you also .
     
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Eloy, so is this your way of saying that there is no scripture that says God's 4th Commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

    If there is no scripture that says God's 4th Commandment has been abolished and it is by breaking any of God's commandments that SIN is committed and NONE who commit KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN are you not worried to answer God come judgment day?

    Sorry Eloy it is only on the WORD of God we stand or fall. If you have no scripture for the tradition of Sunday worship are you building your house on sifting sand or the solid ROCK of the WORD of God?

    Those who follow man made traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God according to the scriptures...

    MATTHEW 15:3-9
    [3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
    [4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
    [5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
    [6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
    [7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
    [8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    [9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    What is all comes down to is who do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW? The WORD of GOD or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of GOD?

    Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.
     
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    My foundation is in Jesus CHRIST, the LIVING WORD of GOD. This is where I build my HOUSE by FAITH in his WORD alone as I walk in his SPIRIT who is my teacher because of his promises.

    The only test to know if someone is following God or not is by their fruits you shall know them. Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

    1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Sorry 1stcenturylady, NONE claiming to have God's SPIRIT have GOD'S SPIRIT if they are KNOWINGLY teaching anyone to break ANY of God's 10 Commandments (James 2:8-11).

    Those who KNOWINGLY follow the teachings of men that break the commandments of God have no part in God's KINGDOM. Sin will keep all who KNOWINGLY practice it out of God's KINGDOM.

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

    May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.
     
  11. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Can you please not include all your filler cuts and pastes on stuff we already agree on? I would be more willing to read something that is more focused.
     
  12. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    I have given scripture that shows us what day to worship. As for thinking those who disagree with you must believe the Law is abolished :We obey the commandments through Faith in Christ. Again, your argument has been reduced to redundancy.


    Matthew 5:17
    “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well that has no truth to it. You have not given one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Sorry Eloy God's WORD disagrees with you.

    If you disagree please post the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?
     
  14. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    Strawman argument again. Again, I do not believe the commandments are abolished. These scriptures show us the importance of the first day of the week. That it is the Lord's Day and the day the early Christians were worshiping Our Lord and Savior.
    Public worship was celebrated by the early Christians on Sunday:

    "On the first day of the week, when we met to break bread..." (Acts 20, 7).


    Collections in support of the Church were gathered on Sunday:

    "On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come" (1 Cor. 16, 2).

    John the apostle celebrated the Lord's day, do you?
    St. John received his Revelation on Sunday:

    "I, John, your brother who share with you in Jesus the persecution...was on the island called Patmos...I was in the spirit on the Lord's day..." (Rev. 1, 9-10).

     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  15. Viren

    Viren Contributor

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    The Lord's day is for meeting together, but before that I'll be picking things from my garden like Jesus picked wheat.
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Now ELOY, Strawman argument again? What strawman argument? I refer you back to post #386 linked that defines what a strawman argument is and challenge you to prove I have made any strawman arguments.

    So nope I have not made any strawman arguments to you. That is a false statement from you.

    I have only challenged you to show scripture that says God's 4th Commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. You have not been able to provide a single scripture. I have only chalenged you to provide a single scripture to other questions from POST # 383 linked click me, you have not been able to provide a single scripture.

    ............

    Now that the strawman argument has been dispelled again. Let's take a look at the scriptures you are promoting to say God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day and your claim that Sunday is the "LORDS'S DAY"?

    I noticed here you left off the rest of the scripture which says in full...

    ACTS 20:7 [7], And on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached to them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    The disciples met together everyday of the week in the book of ACTS. "BREAK BREAD" simply means that the disciples were having a meal together. WHY? BECAUSE PAUL WAS DEPARTING the next day and they were not going to see him again for some time v7; 13-16.

    So NOPE ACTS 20:7 is not a scripture that says God's 4th commandment SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY now is it ELOY? One down. Now let's look at the other scriptures you have provided...

    Now let's be honest now does 1 COR 16:2 tell us that God's 4th Commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY? I do not think so. Let's look at the scripture...

    1 CORINTHIANS 16:1-8
    [1], Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do you.
    [2], On the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
    [3], And when I come, whomsoever you shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality to Jerusalem.
    [4], And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.
    [5], Now I will come to you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.
    [6], And it may be that I will abide, yes, and winter with you, that you may bring me on my journey wherever I go.
    [7], For I will not see you now by the way; but I trust to tarry a while with you, if the Lord permit.
    [8], But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.

    Now notice the reason for the collection. The collection for the saints was to be laid up on Sunday why? v2-5 because Paul was passing through on his way to Ephesus v8 and was taking the offerings to the Saints at Jerusalem v3.

    So once again NOPE
    . 1 COR 16:1-8 are not scriptures that say God's 4th commandment SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY now is it ELOY?

    Two down. Now let's look at the other scriptures you have provided that you claim are in reference to Sunday being the "LORD'S DAY"?

    May I suggest you follow this section very closely? Let's start by looking at your scripture that you claim is in reference to SUNDAY being the "LORD'S DAY"

    REVELATIONS 1:9-11 [9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

    No doubt about it ELOY that scripture clearly says that John was in the SPIRIT on the "LORD'S DAY"!

    NOW the only problem you have is you need to show scripture that says SUNDAY or WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY.

    Can you please prove to me from the scripture that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY"?

    If you cannot find any scriptures to say that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY" then you have a problem because I can show you scripture saying that the LORD'S DAY is not SUNDAY but the SABBATH DAY.

    Let's have a look at the Scriptures...

    MATTHEW 12:8 [8] FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY.

    Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?
    A.
    THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

    Now Eloy, we have gone through every one of your scriptures. NONE of them say that God's 4th Commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day and according to God's WORD the SABBATH is the "LORD'S DAY" not SUNDAY.

    Who do we believe and follow? The teachings and traditions of men or the WORD of God? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

    .................

    SIN is breaking any of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    .................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  17. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    What are you implying in your posts?
    Do you believe every male appeared at the temple to worship every Sabbath? Or perhaps you believe men appeared before God for worship in Jewish synagogues instead of the temple?

    Ex 23:
    14 Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.
    15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:)
    16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
    17 Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.

    To which the 7 weeks of the harvest are called Sabbaths. These are festival Sabbaths without regard to the day of the creation week. So all their males appeared before the Lord for to worship at the temple for 7 consecutive "festival" Sabbaths.
    Deut 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
    16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    I "guess" this is your way of "Agreeing" with the OP statement that the 7th day of the week as the Bible defines it - is our Saturday and that makes the first day of the week - what we today call Sunday.

    Thanks... I guess.

    The same LAW on tables of stone - is written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

    Jeremiah 31:31-33
    Hebrews 8:6-10

    And that same Ten Commandment unit is the reference in Ephesians 6:2 where Paul tells us that the first commandment "with a promise" is the 5th commandment - because that statement is only true in "the Unit of Ten".

    It is not the first commandment of God in Genesis or Exodus with a promise - but the first one in the UNIT of TEN.

    As I think we both already know. Hence all mankind for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth will have this said about them "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

    There is no "every male at the temple" statement in anything I posted.

    What in the world are you talking about??

    Jews and gentiles were gathered "Every Sabbath" to hear Gospel preaching in Acts 18:4... is this what you are referencing??

    Acts 13 - Jews and gentiles in the temple on Sabbath
    Acts 17:1-5 Jews and gentiles gather in the temple each Sabbath for Gospel preaching.
    Acts 18:4 -- every Sabbath.

    Ex 23:
    14 Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.

    Has nothing at all to do with the weekly Sabbath. There are more than 3 weeks in a year.
     
  19. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    You believe they are the same commandments, but they are not. For instance, the Sabbath is not in the Eternal Royal law of God. It is not eternal. But love is. There will be no time in eternity to mark the 7th day. The Sabbath is only kept by the Jews, and will be kept during the last days/years of Daniel 9 when the Jews are given their opportunity to come to Christ, Romans 11.

    This is why the New Covenant commandments better represent the eternal laws than the Old Covenant commandments, which fall short. There is no need for the Old Covenant commandments when we are lead by the Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit prevents us from breaking the eternal laws of love.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
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