saying I'm appalled is insufficient

[edie19]

Last week we went to a Toledo Symphony concert @ a local seeker sensitive megachurch (my daughter is a member). One of the elders introduced the orchestra - in his introduction he mentioned that the church would be having 27 Christmas services (9 @ each location) from Wednesday, Dec. 22 through Friday, Dec. 24. In order to honor their families they will not be having services on Sunday, December 26th (that's a direct quote by the way).

I'm so totally appalled I'm almost without words. If I thought it would make a difference in how they think I'd ask more than a few questions. For example, how do they reconcile their decision with the 1st, 2nd and 4th Commandments? Where in Scripture are we instructed to honor our families over honoring God? That certainly is in contrast to "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in law; and a man's enemies will be those of his own household." and "Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes and his own live also, he cannot be My disciple."

Don't they realize that there are men, women and children dying today for the privilege of worshiping on the Lord's Day?

Sadly, they remind me of some of the churches in The Revelation of Christ - in many ways they're not a church (can one still be considered a church at all in that case?)

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

Last week we went to a Toledo Symphony concert @ a local seeker sensitive megachurch (my daughter is a member). One of the elders introduced the orchestra - in his introduction he mentioned that the church would be having 27 Christmas services (9 @ each location) from Wednesday, Dec. 22 through Friday, Dec. 24. In order to honor their families they will not be having services on Sunday, December 26th (that's a direct quote by the way).

I'm so totally appalled I'm almost without words. If I thought it would make a difference in how they think I'd ask more than a few questions. For example, how do they reconcile their decision with the 1st, 2nd and 4th Commandments? Where in Scripture are we instructed to honor our families over honoring God? That certainly is in contrast to "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in law; and a man's enemies will be those of his own household." and "Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes and his own live also, he cannot be My disciple."

Don't they realize that there are men, women and children dying today for the privilege of worshiping on the Lord's Day?

Sadly, they remind me of some of the churches in The Revelation of Christ - in many ways they're not a church (can one still be considered a church at all in that case?)

And you expected...what?

Sorry, meesa bad today!

 

[heymikey80]

That's ... really weird. The whole "exhaustion" thing is admittedly normal to me, but to drop Sunday worship because of it?

Strange. I assume they're "seeking" a pre-Christmas population.

They having anything December 25? Or is that off-limits, too?

We had a really nice thing at my church today: we opened the church to a time of prayer & reflection on the gift of Christ Jesus, 1-4PM .

 

[Defcon]

Last week we went to a Toledo Symphony concert @ a local seeker sensitive megachurch (my daughter is a member). One of the elders introduced the orchestra - in his introduction he mentioned that the church would be having 27 Christmas services (9 @ each location) from Wednesday, Dec. 22 through Friday, Dec. 24. In order to honor their families they will not be having services on Sunday, December 26th (that's a direct quote by the way).

I'm so totally appalled I'm almost without words. If I thought it would make a difference in how they think I'd ask more than a few questions. For example, how do they reconcile their decision with the 1st, 2nd and 4th Commandments? Where in Scripture are we instructed to honor our families over honoring God? That certainly is in contrast to "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in law; and a man's enemies will be those of his own household." and "Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes and his own live also, he cannot be My disciple."

Don't they realize that there are men, women and children dying today for the privilege of worshiping on the Lord's Day?

Sadly, they remind me of some of the churches in The Revelation of Christ - in many ways they're not a church (can one still be considered a church at all in that case?)

I hear ya. Right now my wife and I attend a Methodist church with my family as there aren't any Reformed churches (or anything close to one) within an hour drive. It's hard to sit through the service without leaving (I've only left once so far). I keep reminding myself that despite all of the warped and ungodly practices that take place, God in His amazing power still uses this mess to bring in His elect.

When doors open to point out the sin and folly of a practice, we certainly must do so. Generally this will come with those around you, but its a balancing act for sure. If I redressed every grievance from the Sunday service weekly with the pastor or some other committee, I would be miserable and I certainly wouldn't be listened to after a short amount of time.

 

[edie19]

That's ... really weird. The whole "exhaustion" thing is admittedly normal to me, but to drop Sunday worship because of it?

Strange. I assume they're "seeking" a pre-Christmas population.

They having anything December 25? Or is that off-limits, too?

We had a really nice thing at my church today: we opened the church to a time of prayer & reflection on the gift of Christ Jesus, 1-4PM .

not having anything on the 25th - which I can handle as it's a Saturday this year. Will be interested in seeing what they do next year when the 25th is a Sunday (I remember several years ago when Christmas was on a Sunday they took a lot of criticism for not having Lord's Day services that day - as I recall they accused their critics of legalism).

 

[Big Drew]

Wow...

This year on Independence Day we pretty much had a skeleton service...pretty much all the leadership went on vacation...one of the elders gave the sermon and I lead praise and worship...we only had about 20 people show up...but, the point is the church was open and we were having service...and that was ON the holiday, not the day after. . .

 

[edie19]

Wow...

This year on Independence Day we pretty much had a skeleton service...pretty much all the leadership went on vacation...one of the elders gave the sermon and I lead praise and worship...we only had about 20 people show up...but, the point is the church was open and we were having service...and that was ON the holiday, not the day after. . .

exactly

 

[bricklayer]

That reminds me of a Wed. night service a few winters ago.
Some old rancher and I were the only two that made it the through the snow storm;
so the pastor figured there'd be no sense in holding service.
The old rancher didn't take well to that idea and told the pastor that if only two of his cattle show up tonight in the storm, he's still gonna feed 'em.
The pastor obviously felt bad and really had a change of heart.
In fact, he kinda went on preaching for what seemed like an eternity
until the old racher interupeted him and said,
"Pastor, I said I'd feed the the two cattle. I didn't say I'd feed 'em the whole load."

 

[JCFantasy23]

That reminds me of a Wed. night service a few winters ago.
Some old rancher and I were the only two that made it the through the snow storm;
so the pastor figured there'd be no sense in holding service.
The old rancher didn't take well to that idea and told the pastor that if only two of his cattle show up tonight in the storm, he's still gonna feed 'em.
The pastor obviously felt bad and really had a change of heart.
In fact, he kinda went on preaching for what seemed like an eternity
until the old racher interupeted him and said,
"Pastor, I said I'd feed the the two cattle. I didn't say I'd feed 'em the whole load."

LOL Love that story, the rancher sounds like an awesome person.

 

[hedrick]

I thought a bit more about this. As you probably know, there are two approaches to the Sabbath, both reflected within the Reformed tradition. One says that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath, and that the commandment applies to it. The other says that Saturday remains the Sabbath, and that as part of the ceremonial law, Christians are not bound to it. Our worship is free, although we would be expected to worship regularly.

I come from the second version of the tradition. I see no problem with skipping a Sunday, when the people have worshipped on a different day. In fact I might even recommend doing it from time to time, just to be clear that we do not take a legalistic view of the Sabbath.

What *does* appall me is the thought of a pastor who would not want to worship just because the group that showed up was small. We haven't had quite that small attendance, but on very snowy Sundays we often get only people who are close enough to walk. Those services are really great. It's a much more intimate and informal approach, which I actually prefer to our regular services.

 

[cygnusx1]

I thought a bit more about this. As you probably know, there are two approaches to the Sabbath, both reflected within the Reformed tradition. One says that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath, and that the commandment applies to it. The other says that Saturday remains the Sabbath, and that as part of the ceremonial law, Christians are not bound to it. Our worship is free, although we would be expected to worship regularly.

I come from the second version of the tradition. I see no problem with skipping a Sunday, when the people have worshipped on a different day. In fact I might even recommend doing it from time to time, just to be clear that we do not take a legalistic view of the Sabbath.

What *does* appall me is the thought of a pastor who would not want to worship just because the group that showed up was small. We haven't had quite that small attendance, but on very snowy Sundays we often get only people who are close enough to walk. Those services are really great. It's a much more intimate and informal approach, which I actually prefer to our regular services.

excellent post !

Rom.14

[1] Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
[2] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
[3] Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
[4] Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
[5] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
[6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
[7] For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
[8] For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.