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Featured Saw something scary at church

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by mathinspiration, Feb 14, 2018.

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  1. mathinspiration

    mathinspiration Member

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    I saw my pastor in the bathroom with a disable girl. They weren't going anything bad but still the pastor should not be alone in the bathroom with this girl. What should I do? It look like the pastor didn't see anything wrong with it or anything.
     
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  2. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    even if it was purely innocent it didn't look good. 1 Thessalonians 5:22 It is especially important for the pastor to always be seen as above reproach in every situation. Talk to him, explain why it is important to avoid all appearances of evil. Do so gently and with possible solutions when it appears that there is no other way. Above all, don't spread it around like gossip.
     
  3. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Congregants often assume that there is "somebody" (but not the pastor) to take care of everything that is necessary for there to be church services on time, functioning bathrooms, the literature in place, light bulbs changed, and everything else working right--including handling all emergencies. Guess who is the one to whom it usually falls?
     
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  4. Greg Merrill

    Greg Merrill Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If it was innocent, it was "extremely careless" (to use a phrase from James Coomey). The door should have been left or propped open, and the first by-stander asked to keep standing by until the situation was over. We live in a world today where certain things need to be handle with extreme care, no matter how innocent. If you feel uncomfortable speaking to the pastor, write him anonymously or ask an elder or some other officer of the church to speak to him.
     
  5. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    With all those people in the Church, why didn't the Pastor call on some women to help, or even the parents? Personally I would not talk to him about it, but to the congregation. What kind of Pastor doesn't have any more wisdom than to go into a girl's bathroom with a handicapped girl? I think the Pastor and the girl need prayers, and that the Church, frankly, needs to get him some help, interview the girl and her parents and get a new Pastor. In fact, legal action may be required to protect other children in the future.

    One thing I have noticed about Christians is that they tend to be naive and not see the obvious. They want to believe the best about people, but this can be overdone and lead to closing the eyes to vital concerns.
     
  6. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    P.S. If the congregation is not too concerned, I would find another Church. MHO.
     
  7. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    If you feel that you can't go to the pastor or that you need to do more, go through the proper channels, like the ministerial committee or whatever group it is that governs these matters. You said yourself that you did not see anything inappropriate going on. It should never become the congregation against the pastor....always following Matthew 18 as God ordained. If the proper channels deem it necessary then it can go further. It's not a war zone of the congregation against the pastor...
     
  8. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    What I see in this string are people wanting to be very careful about the Pastor's feelings and the congregations' opinions. What about the child? No one is asking if she is okay, or what she has to say about what happened. If her handicap involves not being able to communicate well, what about the parents? Their perceptions and feelings are far more important than those of the general congregation.
     
  9. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    And P.S. Have the parents been told about what happened? That's not "gossip" that's just the right thing to do. Morally and legally it is not the call of the Pastor or the Congregation on this issue that is most important, it is the parents who have the right to decide.
     
  10. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    What is the girl's disability?
     
  11. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How old is the pastor and how old is the disabled girl?

    Would the disabled girl have been able to do what she needed to without help or did she need to have a second person with her?

    What is the disability?

    I assume the pastor is not female? correct?
     
  12. Hearingheart

    Hearingheart Well-Known Member

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    Lots of missing information:
    Is the pastor male or female?
    Was the door open or shut to the bathroom?
    What is the disability of the girl?
    Was this during church or Sunday school? After?
    Where were her parents?
    How long ago did this happen?

    I just don't get what Christians are afraid of......what's wrong with talking with one another? The first thing you should have done is ask the girl if everything was ok, stay and ask if you could help out, stay until they are out in the open areas, let the pastor know your concerns...then and there. Pastor's are a part of the body of Christ, also. There could be a million different reasons for what you saw, instead of assuming and jumping to conclusions, you face it head on and ask questions and make sure God didn't put you there for a reason. Stop being so afraid of each other.
     
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  13. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Staff Member Supporter Staff on LOA

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    There are times, as a pastor, that you end up alone with someone you shouldn't be alone with, not even because you chose to be but because something happened and that's the way it was (someone arrived when they weren't expected, or a parent was absent without notice, or whatever).

    Now, that's not good, and the church should have policies and procedures to make sure that doesn't happen. But it doesn't mean the pastor's automatically done something wrong, either.

    So I think the thing to do would be to document the incident - what you saw, where it took place, what day and time it was, details not included here such as whether the "girl" was a minor and the nature of her disability, and so on - and send that to whomever is in charge of this sort of stuff at your church, saying that you're not accusing anyone of anything, but you're concerned that a situation like this should be prevented in future; and asking what they will put in place to ensure that it is.
     
  14. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Staff Member Supporter Staff on LOA

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    It's not clear that the girl is in any way incompetent ("disabled" covers a very broad spectrum). It's not even clear that the person being spoken about is a minor or a child. Some people use "girl" to speak of adult women.

    If she is a child or cognitively disabled starting with her parents/carers is a good approach. (Where were they, when this happened, anyway?) But that should come from someone with authority in the church, not just from some random member.

    And given that we don't know that, I outlined an approach which was appropriate no matter her age or disability.
     
  15. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hopefully we will get more information from the OP
     
  16. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    There wasn't anything bad happening from the point at which the OP entered the room. We don't know whether something was going on before, say, the Pastor heard her opening the door. The Pastor does not belong in a girl's restroom and a handicapped girl is very vulnerable there with him.
    If the parents, or the girl, feel that he was menacing and/or sexually inappropriate, that is a legal issue.

    Hebrews 13:17 was not written about the present institution of the Church, which you have acknowledged came after the Bible was written. Also, I think this is referring to spiritual and doctrinal issues, not legal matters. Further, Messiah Himself spoke out against some of the religious leaders of the day. Paul said not to follow Him but Messiah. Someone - if it was so - who was in a girl's bathroom and doing inappropriate things would not be following Messiah and should not be followed.

    If it was a single sex bathroom - exceedingly unusual in a Church from what I have seen - then that could explain the situation. If the girl had wandered into the wrong sex bathroom then it would seem the OP would have made mention of that fact.

    Of course the Church leaders need to be told. What I am saying is that Congregants do not need to be told what to do if they see a concerning situation. The Law, the girl and/lor the parents have the last word here, not some Church committee or Church officials. Going "through channels" slows down addressing the issue and, again, if there is a problem it is a legal one, not a Church one.

    That's all I have to say as this could go on forever.
    Blessings and Bye.
     
  17. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Staff Member Supporter Staff on LOA

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    In my experience, church members do need to be told - over and over - "Report. If in doubt, report. If you think there might be a problem, report." Having a designated person to report to helps that, because people feel they know where to go.
     
  18. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    I would report it to the board at the least.
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster Tetelestai Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    ADMIN HAT ON


    I did a thread clean due to multiple reports. Please remember that you are to only address the OP.

    Thanks.


    ADMIN HAT OFF
     
  20. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    Talk to your pastor directly. Why in the world would doing so not be your first move? Even the best pastor can be guilty of a lapse in judgment. Find out what was going on from those involved, if you're concerned. And if you think it is warranted, point out to your pastor the imprudence of doing as he did. Raising a lynch-mob, however, is absolutely counter to the direction of Scripture. Read Matthew 18:15-17.
     
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