saved or not?

[glm777]

On May 16th my daughter (believed in God only when everything was going right in her life) recited the sinners prayer with me. She had been very lonely and stressed and I believe she really realized that her way simply wasn't working. I believe with all my heart that she was sincere - she was crying and didn't know why and for her to actually recite the prayer was a huge thing for her (initially she said that she was going to feel stupid - but she did it). We had a wonderful conversation and she asked some very pertinent questions about what it means to be a Christian, asked about drinking, tithing etc. I went to bed that night praising God over and over. I kept thinking - did that really happen? did my daughter really give her heart to the Lord? All I could think about was that now she was going to heaven when she dies - to be with the Lord. I was so thankful and happy.
Since then, she has done nothing. Gets upset with me if I mention anything about christianity, church, etc. I gave her a bible - it is untouched on the credenza. She won't talk about that night - when I bring it up she tells me not to make her regret what she did.
I think she was expecting big changes in her life if she accepted God into her life and that didn't happen (and I told her it probably wouldn't happen). She is still miserable and lonely and stressed. The only difference I see in her is that now when things come up in her life and I offer to pray - she will tell me what to pray specifically about, so I know she is at least thinking about and accepting prayer. Prior to this, she wouldn't even talk about it - she'd say "I don't believe in that, mom".
I'm not sure what to do now. Again, I truly do believe that she was sincere that night - I'm SURE of it. I continue to pray and when I can bring it up I will say to her (when she's complaining about her life) that she can't expect God to give and give and give without getting something back in return. She just ignores me. Or gets aggravated with me.
Any advice/insight/prayer wouldbe most welcome.

 

[Look Up]

I know as a mother how you must hang on to your feeling that your daughter was sincere at a moment of prayer, but I suggest you recall the greatness of God and ask Him to have mercy on your daughter. Only the Spirit of God can grant her repentance and submission to Himself, as is true of all of us.

 

[RobertZ]

I know as a mother how you must hang on to your feeling that your daughter was sincere at a moment of prayer, but I suggest you recall the greatness of God and ask Him to have mercy on your daughter. Only the Spirit of God can grant her repentance and submission to Himself, as is true of all of us.

Thats right, salvation is all of God from beginning to end and none of it relies on the sincerity of our prayer or anything else that we can do. Pray that God breaks your daughter down and then saves her.
YouTube - God's Great Work in My Life - Testimony of a Young Lady

 

[Peripatetic]

Unfortunately, there is no way to know whether another person is/will be saved. Each person may have a life of starts and stops. A person that is "on fire" with Christianity today may fall away later, and the most staunch atheist may later be a great Christian teacher (ie. C. S. Lewis). Be supportive for her... no matter what road her life takes, there will be bumps. Even if she struggles, the seeds that you have planted will always be with her.

 

[TexasGirl06]

Although we are not called to judge another's salvation....
I believe there is sufficient evidence that we are called to be fruit inspectors.

If one is saved, one will bear fruit.

The fruit of the Spirit.

Evidence of the Spirit.

It's a hard situation, I know.
Just continue to live a Christ-like life.
and...
Pray for her.

 

[Peripatetic]

Although we are not called to judge another's salvation....
I believe there is sufficient evidence that we are called to be fruit inspectors.

Good distinction. Yes, we do have fruit detectors!

Galatians 5:22-23: 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Though we should remember that non-Christians can bear the above fruit too, so it's not directly linked to salvation. It can be confusing when you consider that any person can reflect the goodness of God (even if they are of the world) or the evil nature of the world (even if they walk with God). But generally, more God = more fruit!

 

[oi_antz]

You shouldn't press her so hard, because she could begin to see your nagging as a negative reflection of Christian behavior. She has already made the decision and has very little understanding of what it means and now she will be searching for more meaning to what it means to be Christian and she will probably do this privately. Over time as she learns more about Christianity (unfortunately it originate from worldly opinions), she'll be reminded of who He is, living in her heart. It would be good for you to find some Christian activity for her, youth groups or bible studies, did she go to Sunday school as a child? Maybe if you get some Christian movies she'll watch them and it can help her think about who God is.

 

[EyesOnZion]

When I was a teen, I "re-dedicated" my life to Christ at a youth conference. Coming home, I felt burdened to confess all sorts of things that I had done wrong to my parents. I was surprised to find myself getting punished even though God had already forgiven me. Perhaps my thinking or behavior would have changed if that didn't happen, but I doubt it. I was surprised by how little really changed after choosing to follow God. And admittedly, I still continued to do all the rotten stuff I was doing before.

But over the next year or so, a lot of these sins dropped out of my life. A lot of the time it wasn't an easy change, it meant breaking off many of my bad friendships and reorienting all my priorities in life. Looking back, I was silly to think that all that could have happened over night. Certainly we want to be looking for fruit, but it's good to remember that Psalm 1 says that the "tree planted by water" yields it's fruit in its season.

Now I can't speak to your specific situation, but I would imagine as a mother who's been grieving to see your child come to the Lord, it would be a temptation to jump ahead and expect her to act like a mature Christian overnight. Patience is required. And patience is tough to come by when you've been waiting a long time already.

Still, my prayers are with you, this is a difficult situation for any parent. I would encourage you to encourage her to pursue Jesus, not pursue actions. The behavior will take care of itself as long as she's looking to Him.

EOZ

 

[RobertZ]

When I was a teen, I "re-dedicated" my life to Christ at a youth conference. Coming home, I felt burdened to confess all sorts of things that I had done wrong to my parents. I was surprised to find myself getting punished even though God had already forgiven me. Perhaps my thinking or behavior would have changed if that didn't happen, but I doubt it. I was surprised by how little really changed after choosing to follow God. And admittedly, I still continued to do all the rotten stuff I was doing before.

But over the next year or so, a lot of these sins dropped out of my life. A lot of the time it wasn't an easy change, it meant breaking off many of my bad friendships and reorienting all my priorities in life. Looking back, I was silly to think that all that could have happened over night. Certainly we want to be looking for fruit, but it's good to remember that Psalm 1 says that the "tree planted by water" yields it's fruit in its season.

Now I can't speak to your specific situation, but I would imagine as a mother who's been grieving to see your child come to the Lord, it would be a temptation to jump ahead and expect her to act like a mature Christian overnight. Patience is required. And patience is tough to come by when you've been waiting a long time already.

Still, my prayers are with you, this is a difficult situation for any parent. I would encourage you to encourage her to pursue Jesus, not pursue actions. The behavior will take care of itself as long as she's looking to Him.

EOZ

Good post, also I was listening to a sermon about a man who prayed 19 long yrs for his wife to be saved before God finally did a work in her heart and saved her. So dont lose hope, just realize that salvation is something that is in the hands of God.

 

[seashale76]

YouTube - Are you saved? - an Orthodox Christian answer.

 

[Hupomone10]

Thats right, salvation is all of God from beginning to end and none of it relies on the sincerity of our prayer or anything else that we can do. Pray that God breaks your daughter down and then saves her.

If it is truly all of God, meaning there is nothing we can do, then

there is nothing the saved person can do for someone's salvation either, regardless of the sincerity of their prayers, else they could boast.

If the sovereignty of God is understood to mean that man can do nothing in the matter, then praying for God to save someone is useless. God either is or He isn't. Man's opinion and desires don't matter in that context.

Thank God there is a rest of the story, and His ways and thoughts are higher than ours.

Theology does matter.

H.

 

[RobertZ]

If it is truly all of God, meaning there is nothing we can do, then

there is nothing the saved person can do for someone's salvation either, regardless of the sincerity of their prayers, else they could boast.

If the sovereignty of God is understood to mean that man can do nothing in the matter, then praying for God to save someone is useless. God either is or He isn't. Man's opinion and desires don't matter in that context.

Thank God there is a rest of the story, and His ways and thoughts are higher than ours.

Theology does matter.

H.

Yes, we can and should pray for the lost but you know that God is ultimately the one who does the saving. I know what your saying though, his ways are above our ways and it all works out for the glory of God.

 

[Hupomone10]

On May 16th my daughter (believed in God only when everything was going right in her life) recited the sinners prayer with me. She had been very lonely and stressed and I believe she really realized that her way simply wasn't working. I believe with all my heart that she was sincere - she was crying and didn't know why and for her to actually recite the prayer was a huge thing for her (initially she said that she was going to feel stupid - but she did it). We had a wonderful conversation and she asked some very pertinent questions about what it means to be a Christian, asked about drinking, tithing etc. I went to bed that night praising God over and over. I kept thinking - did that really happen? did my daughter really give her heart to the Lord? All I could think about was that now she was going to heaven when she dies - to be with the Lord. I was so thankful and happy.
Since then, she has done nothing. Gets upset with me if I mention anything about christianity, church, etc. I gave her a bible - it is untouched on the credenza. She won't talk about that night - when I bring it up she tells me not to make her regret what she did.
I think she was expecting big changes in her life if she accepted God into her life and that didn't happen (and I told her it probably wouldn't happen). She is still miserable and lonely and stressed. The only difference I see in her is that now when things come up in her life and I offer to pray - she will tell me what to pray specifically about, so I know she is at least thinking about and accepting prayer. Prior to this, she wouldn't even talk about it - she'd say "I don't believe in that, mom".
I'm not sure what to do now. Again, I truly do believe that she was sincere that night - I'm SURE of it. I continue to pray and when I can bring it up I will say to her (when she's complaining about her life) that she can't expect God to give and give and give without getting something back in return. She just ignores me. Or gets aggravated with me.
Any advice/insight/prayer wouldbe most welcome.

Scripture indeed does tell us to pray regarding all things. That is because prayer matters. Prayer in its simplest definition is an expression of faith to God. It is relying on God to do what we cannot. And God is very pleased with it. It factors into all His plans.

I would recommend praying both ways for her. If she is indeed saved, to bring her back to a walk with the Lord; and if she is not, to bring her to salvation. We are not required to be omniscient and know where another person is; so we can pray both and trust God with the results.

Pray every day. Scriptures is clear that praying fervently and continuously is not an expression of doubt or of trying to get our will, but is in fact an expression of faith, since those who don't really believe God will answer soon give up and quit praying.

Pray, Pray, Pray. Pray until you die, or until you see her come back or to the Lord.

 

[RobertZ]

Scripture indeed does tell us to pray regarding all things. That is because prayer matters. Prayer in its simplest definition is an expression of faith to God. It is relying on God to do what we cannot. And God is very pleased with it. It factors into all His plans.

I would recommend praying both ways for her. If she is indeed saved, to bring her back to a walk with the Lord; and if she is not, to bring her to salvation. We are not required to be omniscient and know where another person is; so we can pray both and trust God with the results.

Pray every day. Scriptures is clear that praying fervently and continuously is not an expression of doubt or of trying to get our will, but is in fact an expression of faith, since those who don't really believe God will answer soon give up and quit praying.

Pray, Pray, Pray. Pray until you die, or until you see her come back or to the Lord.

I agree, just like the guy who prayed for 19yrs for his wifes salvation before is prayer was finally answered. Most would give up after probably a few months but just imagine this guys constant prayer for 19 long yrs and then one day it paid off.

 

[Hupomone10]

I agree, just like the guy who prayed for 19yrs for his wifes salvation before is prayer was finally answered. Most would give up after probably a few months but just imagine this guys constant prayer for 19 long yrs and then one day it paid off.

And if God answers a believer who prays for 19 yrs for his wife's salvation, He also will hear the prayer, the sinner's prayer, of a person who has come to repentance and faith in Christ and is expressing that through "first contact" with Christ.

It's not the sinner's prayer that is the problem. No one that truly has walked with the Lord any length of time believes there is magic in an unbelieving prayer. Heck, we're even told that Christians' prayers are often unanswered because they are unbelieving prayers.

James 1:6-7
But let him ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.
For let not that man expect that he will receive anything from the Lord"

Mark 11:24
"Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they shall be granted you."

There is no magic in prayer itself; prayer is an expression of faith to God. And there is nothing gained by unbelieving prayer, either from the sinner or from the saint. But there is gain for both, if it is a prayer of faith.

The perfect sinner's prayer was "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" prayed by a sinner, prayed from his heart, directly, audibly, to the Lord Jesus.

Not only that, Jesus answered him:

43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

No matter what we call it, God desires us to respond to Him. And He responds to us when we do. Not audibly, but He does hear and respond to the prayer of faith, both from the "sinner" and from the saint.