Saved by Faith or grace?

[LoveofTruth]

Faith alone saves, and you are right that the majority of reformed churches hold to it still. The fact that some churches on the evangelical fringe have twisted that into what has been called a Gospel of cheap (or easy) Grace does not make them the majority or cancel out the correct understanding. And we should not talk as though it does.

The grace of God brings salvation. But to come into that grace is only through faith.

But some act as if we simply have "faith alone" for salvation. It is as if they are saying when you just believe you are saved without any new birth or real change in your being. It is as if they are saying nothing happens inwardly at salvation and you do not need to abide in Christ in you and walk in the Spirit to be saved or actually be a new creation to be saved. But this is not accurate and scripture says differently.

Jesus said "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"(John 3:3 KJV). And Paul said "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his"(Rom. 8:9 KJV). Unless Jesus Christ is in any believer their faith is vain and they are reprobate. (2 Cor 13:5 KJV). Only by having Jesus Christ actually in us are we "in the faith".

So, this grace is Christ working in us by Gods favour unmerited to us, through our faith. It is as if faith opens the door for us to allow God to work in us and give us life. He creates in us a new heart and our spirit is born again.

When Jesus said a man must believe and be baptized to be saved. I see this similar to faith and grace. The believe part is the faith, and the baptism part is the grace.

believe = faith

baptism (into Christ) = grace



"By whom also we have access by faith into this grace(Rom. 5:2 KJV)

"By grace are ye saved through faith" Eph 2:8 KJV)

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,..."(1 Cor 12"13 KJV)

"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith;..."(Eph 3:17 KJV)

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."(Galatians 3:27 KJV) I am not talking about WATER baptism here. But the saving baptism into Christ at new birth, this is the grace that saves through faith and as we abide in him through faith.

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."(John 15:4,5 KJV)

When we believe or have faith, we are trusting, not in our own works but in God's work on the cross for us, and when we are baptized by the Spirit into Christ we are immersed INTO Jesus Christ and he in us. This is the grace part, for Paul says by faith we enter INTO this grace. Paul also said "By one Spirit are we all baptized INTO one body" (1 Cor 12:13 KJV). This immersion into the body of Christ is the new birth and where the new man is created in Christ. The God works in us to make us perfect unto every god work, working in us that which is well pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ (Hebrews 13;20,21 KJV).

These works of God on the cross and in us are how we are saved. So when James says how "faith without works is dead". Yes, this is true, for unless God is woking in us we are dead, and it is only by Christ that we (the new man in Christ) can do all things, without Christ in us our faith alone or empty, without such work of God we are vain and empty.

It is as a man who is alive has the spirit in him if he is dead we see no spirit. So a believer without God's spirit in him is dead also. In this way, (by having God's Spirit in) us and living in the new creation we can show forth our faith. The works are not merits works of our old man or works that we do of ourself. But God working in us at the new birth and making us perfect as we abide in Him through faith. Such works flow from God in us as fruit from a tree. The tree must first be planted and growing to be alive and this life is only in Christ. This is the grace of God that bright salvation IN us and this grace is only entered into and remained in by faith.

So the by faith we enter into the grace. And by grace are ye saved and by continual faith we continue in the grace.

"persuaded them to continue in the grace of God." (Acts 13:43).

The confusion comes, because we must live by faith and by faith we overcome the world. We cannot deny the faith or cast off our faith. Yes, we must always live daily by faith and believe the gospel to continue in the grace of God. Only through our daily faith can we walk in the Spirit, for Christ dwells in our heart by faith. Then when we are in Christ and he in us we can do all things. The old man is crucified with Christ buried with Him and risen with him. This new life of ours is walking in that newness of life in Christ. This is the daily grace we live in where the divine influence of Christ light, seed word, truth and power work in us and we are given the Holy Spirit as well to empower us in this walk and guide us.

Jesus said to the disciples at one time,

Luke 8:25
And he said unto them, Where is your faith?..."

Without such faith God is not working in the heart and life by His grace. I pray that we can all say with Paul,

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."

 

[Halbhh]

To continue with the very useful post #18 (and #21) above, I want to add the invaluable thing(s) Christ said further about *how* to abide, to remain, in Him

There is much (we could get soon enough to Matthew 7:21-27 and such), but the key instruction from Him for abiding that stands out so strongly is how in the same passages where He tells us in John to abide in Him, chapters 14 and 15, we learn that we do so by keeping His words in our minds, or better is His wording of this (really reading fully through both chapters is the only good way to take in this message, but after we have read fully and listened, hearing, then we can emphasize this key part of abiding) --

These all connect together, and I'm only laying out the parts as they connect in my mind, and anyone is better off reading fully through, but here is the thread I need --

"20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”"

"3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish..."

"9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. ..."

We see it's actually by hearing His Words (in the gospel accounts, His actual words there) with listening, words which are directly from the Father, that this abiding happens. Keeping focus on His words, looking to Him.

And additionally, we have the choices day by day, often moment by moment, about whether to keep His commandments in some way, such as whether to rush away instead of talking with someone that wants to talk say because the Packers game is coming on, etc. So these real choices about keeping His words continue day by day, and we rely on Him, on His forgiveness, and communion, and with aid through prayer, being helped and brought back onto the path, over and over.

"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." (John ch 10)

 

[fhansen]

but God's grace only comes through faith to the believer.

Faith is a gift...of grace.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Just s quick point here.

I hear some on the radio and in person say we are saved by “faith” and they add the words “faith alone”.

But in scripture we read that we are saved by grace through faith

Ephesians 2 - 8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. “

Romans 4 - 16. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,”

Romans 5 - 15. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.”

Ephesians 2 - 5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)”

Romans 3 - 24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:”

So by faith we enter INTO this grace

Romans 5 - 2. By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.”

By God's grace we have faith, and are saved. Faith alone is a doctrine against the concept of needing to do anything to be saved. The dichotomy created takes away from the God and I working together concept and makes someone choose between whether I did it or God did it, both are wrong, God and I both work together ... not sure how it is for you.

 

[LoveofTruth]

To continue with the very useful post #18 (and #21) above, I want to add the invaluable thing(s) Christ said further about *how* to abide, to remain, in Him

There is much (we could get soon enough to Matthew 7:21-27 and such), but the key instruction from Him for abiding that stands out so strongly is how in the same passages where He tells us in John to abide in Him, chapters 14 and 15, we learn that we do so by keeping His words in our minds, or better is His wording of this (really reading fully through both chapters is the only good way to take in this message, but after we have read fully and listened, hearing, then we can emphasize this key part of abiding) --

These all connect together, and I'm only laying out the parts as they connect in my mind, and anyone is better off reading fully through, but here is the thread I need --

"20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”"

"3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish..."

"9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. ..."

We see it's actually by hearing His Words (in the gospel accounts, His actual words there) with listening, words which are directly from the Father, that this abiding happens. Keeping focus on His words, looking to Him.

And additionally, we have the choices day by day, often moment by moment, about whether to keep His commandments in some way, such as whether to rush away instead of talking with someone that wants to talk say because the Packers game is coming on, etc. So these real choices about keeping His words continue day by day, and we rely on Him, on His forgiveness, and communion, and with aid through prayer, being helped and brought back onto the path, over and over.

"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." (John ch 10)

Yes abiding and continuing in His word is life. Paul said to some

Acts 20:32
"And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified."

and Jesus said

John 6:63
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

this word is the seed sown in the heart. This is the incorruptible word of God by which we are born again

1 Peter 1:23
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

and they add the words “faith alone”.

"Faith alone," is never an argument to say that we are not saved by grace, which is what you're making it. It would be like me saying that I got to work by car, and you argue that I'm excluding the fact that I came by road, when the point was that I didn't come by train. "Faith alone," is normally meant to say not by works. Stop arguing against a point that was never made.

The grace of God brings salvation. But to come into that grace is only through faith.

Prepositions are a tricky and interchangeable thing. I can come through the door, or I can come by way of the door. The salvation comes generally by grace, but it comes specifically to me by faith. A cabbage comes by growing in the dirt, but it comes to me by way of my mouth. If I argue that I ingested a cabbage by eating it, you would argue that I'm wrong, for the cabbage came by growing in the dirt, and it's a totally frivolous waste of ones and zeros on the CF server.

 

[LoveofTruth]

By God's grace we have faith, and are saved. Faith alone is a doctrine against the concept of needing to do anything to be saved. The dichotomy created takes away from the God and I working together concept and makes someone choose between whether I did it or God did it, both are wrong, God and I both work together ... not sure how it is for you.

I think we can agree that without Christ we can do nothing. But in Christ we (the new creation in Christ) can do all things. We do all things because we are saved and abide in Christ, not merits of ourself.

But I think we can agree, (hopefully) that unless God did the work on the cross without us and unless God is working in us we are not saved. So then these works of God working in us are absolutely needful. If we say we have faith and do not have the new birth and God working in us are we saved? Can faith save you then? Can we show our faith by God working un us? Yes. In this sense we are fellow labourers with God as scrupture teaches. The excellency of the power is of God and not of us ( 2 Cor 4). But it is not the faith alone that saves. But we are saved by Grace and this grace of God works in us through faith, we enter into this grace and then have God's love shed abroad in ur heart. This is the only way we can walk in love.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think we can agree that without Christ we can do nothing. But in Christ we (the new creation in Christ) can do all things. We do all things because we are saved and abide in Christ, not merits of ourself.

But I think we can agree, (hopefully) that unless God did the work on the cross without us and unless God is working in us we are not saved. So then these works of God working n us are absolutely needful. If we say we have faith and do not have the new birth and God working in us are we saved? Can faith save you then? Can we show our faith by God working un us? Yes. In this sense we are fellow labourers with God as s rupture teaches. The excellency of the power is of God and not of us ( 2 Cor 4). But it is not the faith alone that saves. But we are saved by Grace and this grace of God works in us through faith, we enter into this grace and then have God's love shed abroad in ur heart. This is the only way we can walk in love.

I tend to disagree with the calvinist/arminist dichotomy, but tend to work best with calvinists. Focussing on what we agree on is more important anyway. What you said is not wrong.

 

[LoveofTruth]

"Faith alone," is never an argument to say that we are not saved by grace, which is what you're making it. It would be like me saying that I got to work by car, and you argue that I'm excluding the fact that I came by road, when the point was that I didn't come by train. "Faith alone," is normally meant to say not by works. Stop arguing against a point that was never made.

But we are saved by works. Not our dead works that is, or works of the law or merits works. But we are saved by God's work on the cross for us and without us and God's work in us at salvation in the new birth.

To say we are saved by faith alone, without God working in us at new birth which is the grace that saves, is confusing. We are saved by grace through faith. But notice it is the grace that saves. This grace is God working and his divine influence upon our heart through Christ saves.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

We are saved by faith alone if you deem salvation to being born again.

We are saved with faith plus works if you deem salvation to be the journey from being born again to being redeemed. That being works that are powered by trust in God. James' reference to the engrafted word that is able to save your soul and the rest of the letter is a good reference for this topic. In general, without faith you cannot be saved, works that are done of your own self effort are dead works and need to be repented of by turning and doing all things trusting God, as it is written of old, the righteous shall live by faith. This is not a righteousness we generate ourselves .. but it is the righteousness of Jesus Christ, which is why trust in God and collaboration with God the whole way are a big part of it.

the more we trust the more we grow, and as we mature, His love is made like the same love God has within us, so we will have confidence on the day of judgment because in this world, because in this world we are like Him.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

This particular topic is difficult and both popular for those new in the faith, because trusting is just so difficult in the beginning ... being assigned tasks is easier until the mind of Christ and new heart fully develop.

 

[Halbhh]

This particular topic is difficult and both popular for those new in the faith, because trusting is just so difficult in the beginning ... being assigned tasks is easier until the mind of Christ and new heart fully develop.

We got to this point above, and focused on John 14 and 15 about remaining in Christ, and how our focus on His words is one key part (not all, but key) to remaining in Christ. Posts #21, 22 (about remaining in His words, or His words remaining in our minds), and #25. One thing any Christian, even old to the faith, must do, so as to remain. And the other piece also (in #22) about keeping His commandments then, in those day by day choices, and returning when we don't. To abide, we must keep, else we are walking away.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

We got to this point above, and focused on John 14 and 15 about remaining in Christ, and how our focus on His words is one key part (not all, but key) to remaining in Christ. Posts #21, 22 (about remaining in His words, or His words remaining in our minds), and #25. One thing any Christian, even old to the faith, must do, so as to remain. And the other piece also (in #22) about keeping His commandments then, in those day by day choices, and returning when we don't. To abide, we must keep, else we are walking away.

This description puts too much emphasis on self effort, so I disagree.

 

[Halbhh]

This description puts too much emphasis on self effort, so I disagree.

Our wording is always less good than His!

I'm sure my wording is less good than His. I just want to listen to Him, and thus be saved from myself by His amazing grace.

I'd always say reading through John 14 and 15 with real listening is better than anything I can say.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Our wording is always less good than His!

I'm sure my wording is less good than His. I just want to listen to Him, and thus be saved from myself by His amazing grace.

I'd always say reading through John 14 and 15 with real listening is better than anything I can say.

I find just listening to an audio bible non-stop helpful, the whole context is important, since the gospel of John was written last, the others need to be taken into context also.

 

[Halbhh]

In my experience people from different backgrounds have trouble understanding each other perfectly, so just to help, let me say I'm not worried about anyone in this thread. The simplest way to summarize a concern I have here locally in the region where I live (but not necessarily about other churches in other regions) is that when we learn Ephesians 2:8-9 that we include verse 10, the clear continuation from verse 9, so that it's really Ephesians 2:8-10, a good thing for people we talk to elsewhere to know as they know we are saved by grace, so that they are inoculated against the 'cheap grace' error (that wrong idea that grace means we can ignore other things Christ said, a mistake which I'm not expecting anyone in this thread makes), and thus help some young Christians out there we talk with be aided in remaining in Christ if they themselves encounter the cheap grace error. So this is all for others, mostly young Christians, out there, whom we may help at times.

 

[Halbhh]

I find just listening to an audio bible non-stop helpful, the whole context is important, since the gospel of John was written last, the others need to be taken into context also.

We agree 105% in this.

 

[Benaiahian Monk]

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Ephesians 2:5
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:8
Grace is Gods to give and you cannot receive it without faith.

 

[LoveofTruth]

To all:

I said earlier

believe = faith

grace = baptism (into Christ)

I want to expound on this a bit with more thoughts here,

When I say God’s work has been done “without us” by faith/believing, and “in us” by grace/baptism (into Christ), this must be clarified. I am speaking of a two fold aspect that those who “believe” and are “baptised” shall be saved, This is identical to being saved by “grace” through “faith”. I am referring to these two scriptures particularly,

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

We see this two fold aspect revealed in certain types in the Old Testament as well. One specific example of this is the different water crossings of Moses and Joshua.

1. The first type is in the story of Moses in Exodus we read, “And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD” Exodus 13:14, in this we see a type and shadow of God’s work for us, and without us typified in their being commanded to “stand still”, and see the salvation of the Lord, no works of man are allowed here. This is similar to our “standing still” from our own works and having faith in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross for us, as it is written “Not by works of righteousness which we have done” Titus 3:5 for it is “not of works lest any man should boast” Ephesians 2:8. This would include water baptism or any other outward work for righteousness that we could do. The work is the work of God for us. We must simply believe/faith. This was the first water crossing and typical of salvation and deliverance that God works without us. At this point there is no ark of the covenant, and they had not come to the promised land yet.

This ceasing from our own works and our believing/faith aspect, is similar to the story of bronse serpent on the pole in the book of Numbers, all those who were bit the serpents had to simply look in faith unto the bronse serpent on the pole and believe to be healed (Numbers 21:9). This example Jesus refers to as a type of his death on the cross as well, (John 3:14). They could not be saved from the snake bites unless they simply trusted God and looked to the bronse serpent on the pole. Just like men today must look unto Jesus, who must believe and be baptised into Christ to be saved.

All must Stand still and repent ceasing from all their own dead works and have faith towards God (Hebrews 4:10, Hebrews 6:1). When this was done with the people, an inward change also took place and they were healed from deadly bites. It was not by works on their part, but by their faith (believing). Then God did the inward work by his grace. The same can be said for us. We believe/faith and then God saves by His grace/bapstism into Christ

2. The second type of water crossing similar to Moses is with Joshua and the water crossing through the Jordan river (Joshua chapters 3,4). This relates to the “baptized/grace” part and the “grace” that saves at our salvation as I will seek to show. This is seen in type and shadow of Joshua crossing though the Jordan river with the people, having the ark with them at that time which goes ahead of them first through the Jordan and into the land. This ark represents God's gracious presence with them.

When the river opened up, the Ark of the covenant went in first on dry land and then 12 stones taken and put into the river and then 12 stones taken out of the river and Joshua then went with them into the land to defeat all the enemies (Joshua 3:10, 4:1-11). This story spiritually typifies the death, burrial and resurrection of Christ and the identification that we have with Christ. The twelve stones signify the twleve tribes of Israel are figured here in the stones as being burried with him (Joshua and the ark, which are types of Christ) by baptism unto death and raise with him into the promised land as well. We also are identified with Christ in this way also (Colossians 2:12) and enter in to the kingdom of God with him in our hearts.

Jesus fulfills this type when he himself was baptised in the Jordan river. This event should have triggered all those who looked on to remember the story of Joshua and the people crossing the river with the ark of the covenent. And pointed to Jesus identification as the true ark of the new covenant and God’s presence with them .

After they go through the Jordan river, the ark and Joshua go with the people into the new land and to deafeats all the enemies. This is similar to Christ coming into our hearts and his work “in us” and as we walk in the spirit in the kingdom of God by His grace in our hearts. And as we abide in him he defeats all the enemies.

And so by His grace are we saved, this grace refers to that power and influence of God that baptizes us into Christ and works in our hearts, in this we are burried with him by baptism unto death and raise with him to the newness of life. (Romans 6:4, Colossians2:12). This is the power to change our hearts and purge out all the sin and enemies in our life and he gives us His Holy Spirit as well. Paul says by one Spirit are we all baptized INTO one body. This is the immersion into Christ at new birth.

Both of these two water crossings make up one full salvation and both are needed. The story of Moses and Joshua are connected, a double type. God said “as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee.” Joshua 3:7. We see in these two stories, a typical two fold aspect of our salvation. In Moses story, we see the “believe/faith” part in our “standing still” as they did when God opened up the way for them, a the great deliverence they saw watching Gods work for them, they could do nothing to save themselves. Likewise, the type extends to what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross without us, no works on our part, only our faith in him that died for our sins.

In the Joshua Story and the ark of the covenant crossing the Jordan, we see the “baptism/grace” part, This shadows the “baptism into Christ” part, as he comes into our hearts at the new birth and we are risen with him. Jesus fulfills this type when he was baptised in the Jordan river. And we enter into this as we are crucified, burried and risen with him as we are baptized into Christ. In Joshua we also see the resurrection aspect and the new life.

So in Mark 16:16, the believing part is by faith, and the baptism part is by the grace of God at the new birth by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

This “two fold” aspect is spoken of in different ways in scripture. For example Paul says “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God..the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts” Romans 5:1,2,5. By faith we believe and are justified, and by grace are we saved and born again, We enter into this grace by that faith being made a new creation in Christ and so we have God working in us, and so we are baptised into Christ and put on Christ.

Paul adds another aspect in this same chapter and says, “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.... while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us [nothing we could do to save ourselves, but stand still and see the salvation of the Lord looking unto Jesus]...Much more then, being now justified by his blood [by the death on the cross while we were yet sinners], we shall be saved from wrath through him.[by his resurrection we shall be saved by new birth 1 Peter 3:21, 1 Peter 1:23]”.

For if a man says he has faith and yet is not born again, can any say he is saved? So if a man says he has faith and no works, can faith save him?. The work is of God “for us” on the cross and “in us” as we walk in him and the power of His Spirit. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by this inner washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Titus 3:5).

And so Paul said, “Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; “ Romans 4:16. The grace here is Gods work and influence in our lives which results in the new life in Christ that we are baptised into.

The believing part, or the faith part, is that which makes reconciliation possible between God and man. The baptism part, or the grace part, is that which saves us. This grace/baptism is God's working in us at the new birth by the resurrection of Jesus Christ and our being risen with him,

“For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.”(Romans 5:10),

“Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.” (Romans 4:25.)

Again we see this two fold aspect. His death for our sin and his ressurection for our life, This is the very saving baptism Peter speaks of in 1 Peter 3:21, which is “by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”.

So truly, if a man says he believes (or has faith) and is not baptised into Christ (or enetered into the grace of that divine influence and working of God and His spirit), then he does not have saving grace or the “saving baptism”. To say “I have faith” and not new birth is not salvation. But to those who recieve the gospel and truly believe/faith, they will then be baptized into Christ/grace and have a new life in Christ and shall be saved by his life. God then works in them and makes them perfect unto every good work (Philippians 2:13 Hebrews 13:12).

I know i rambled a bit but the two fold aspect of salvation is seen in scripture. in Type in Moses and Joshua, and in reality in faith and grace, and believing and baptism.

 

[fhansen]

I think we can agree that without Christ we can do nothing. But in Christ we (the new creation in Christ) can do all things. We do all things because we are saved and abide in Christ, not merits of ourself.

But I think we can agree, (hopefully) that unless God did the work on the cross without us and unless God is working in us we are not saved. So then these works of God working n us are absolutely needful. If we say we have faith and do not have the new birth and God working in us are we saved? Can faith save you then? Can we show our faith by God working un us? Yes. In this sense we are fellow labourers with God as s rupture teaches. The excellency of the power is of God and not of us ( 2 Cor 4). But it is not the faith alone that saves. But we are saved by Grace and this grace of God works in us through faith, we enter into this grace and then have God's love shed abroad in ur heart. This is the only way we can walk in love.

My understanding is close, perhaps slightly different. Everything comes by grace, and all grace can be rejected. We cannot possibly be saved without God, and yet we can always refuse to be saved. We can accept or reject the initial grace of faith, where we become justified if we accept, if we believe, and then we can still retain, or turn away from, that state of justice at any point along the way. Salvation isn't a one time event; it's characterized as past, present, and future.

With the opportunities given (knowledge, grace, time, etc) we're expected to work out our salvation with He who works in us, with more expected from those given more. Faith doesn't excuse us from living a righteous life; rather it gives us the grace to live life righteously, as we're willing to cooperate-faith 'upholds the law'-and we're still held accountable for our actions. More precisely, faith establishes relationship with God, and that communion of love will produce righteousness, and right actions, by its nature to the extent that we remain faithful, that we remain in communion. "For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph 2:10

These works, themselves, are likewise a matter of grace, and so they can likewise be ignored and refused to be acted on. In the end, the virtue that defines our justice, that reflects the image of God that we're to be transformed into, is love-and that's the virtue we'll be judged on; that's what faith is meant to lead to. "The only thing that counts is faith working through love." Gal 5:6