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Saved by faith alone?

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by franklin, Aug 13, 2002.

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    First, let me say that you brought up some great scripture.  The bottom line is, Jesus Christ is the gift of God.

    Now with all you said by the scriptures you presented, this is what I learned, All authority has been given to Jesus Christ.  Matt.28:18-19; Mark 16:15-20; Luke 24:45-49, He is the gift that God gave to us, by his life.  We are to obey Jesus Christ, Heb.5:8-9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal SALVATION UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM.  Mark 16:15-20 And he said unto them, Go ye into ALL the WORLD and PREACH the GOSPEL to EVERY CREATURE.  16 HE that BELIEVETH and IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED; BUT he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Now to you this scripture saids, He that believeth is SAVED, and can be BAPTIZED if he wants too, or when ever He wants too.  Who's right you or Jesus?

    For some reason I take it that you do not think baptism is in the same package or gift that God gave to us.  But Titus 2:11 saids,  For the Grace of God that bringeth SALVATION hath appeared to ALL MEN,

    12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

    Jesus Christ is the Grace that brought Salvation!  And what is being dismissed, is what Jesus tells us to do to be SAVED through the words of the apostles Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

    Where did this begin?  In Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, Peter preached the first sermon Acts 2:14-40.  Then when the Jews heard what Peter had preached, They were prick in the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?  But I'll let you give the answer to their question, and if your answer is different from the answer Peter gave, then we will know who is teaching the TRUTH about Baptism.  What is your answer?  Remember the answer to their question is God's GIFT OF SALVATION.
     
  2. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    Jesus is God. The gift is salvation. Jesus is God, right?
     
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    God the Son.

    Not the Father.

    What is you answer to my last post?
     
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    Acts 8:26-39 is your answer to the desert question, if you want to do what God tells you to do to be SAVED he will make a way.

     

     
     
  5. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    MK 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

    Do you see the word "water" in this scripture? No
    Do you see the word baptize? yes

    MT 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

    Do you see the word "water" in this scripture? yes
    Do you see the word "baptize? yes

    Baptisim by water will not save you.

    Blessings
     
  6. If you receive remission of sins are you SAVED?  Acts 2:38

    If your sins are washed away are you SAVED? Acts 22:16.
     
  7. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    AC 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."


    Acts 2:16 has nothing to do with the subject.
    Do you see the word "water" in Acts 2:38?
     
  8. Now you are not being honest or real, when you make statement like the one above, "do you see water in Acts 2:38"  But the three thousand that were baptized that same day did!

     Acts 8:26-39 The Ethiopian eunuch saw water, was he saved?  vs. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?  vs.37  And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.  And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.  vs.38  And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.  vs. 39  And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

    Here is a classic case of SALVATION that cannot be denyed, you have the gospel preached, it was heard and believed, and excepted, you see the change of heart, and the confession of the name of Jesus Christ, and last but not least one baptized into Jesus Christ, who after he was baptized went on his way rejoicing.

    You can say what you want about baptism, but you cannot deny what the eunuch has done, in the Gaza desert, and EVERYONE MUST DO THE SAME THING THAT THE EUNUCH DONE TO BE SAVED. 

    IF YOU DIDN'T DO IT LIKE THIS, THEN YOU MUST DO IT BEFORE ITS TO LATE! 


    Acts 22:16 is what I was refering to.  Paul had his sins washed away when was baptized in water, did you?



    Paul wrote the book of Ephesians and I know he would not lie about what saves us.  You say that baptism does not save, but the bible saids it does, now who I am I to believe?  You or the bible?

    THE BIBLE IS RIGHT!!
     
  9. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    John baptisim was for the remission of sins........Jesus died for the remission of sin.

    AC 22:14 "Then he said: `The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'

    Do you see the word "water" in Ac 22:14:16?
     
  10. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

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    Hmmm. I don't see any mention of faith nor yet of grace in that passage either. Do I see mention of water in that passage? Lemme see now...By what means is a person baptised into the name of Jesus Christ? Surely that can't be by means of water now, can it? So what is baptism into the name of Christ Jesus?

    Acts 8: 14-17 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he (the Holy Spirit) was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

    Act 10:44 - 48 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Or were these people baptised into the Holy Spirit, and into the name of the Lord, and also with water? Or is it possible that being baptised into the name of the Lord involved water?
     
  11. eldermike

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    I will repeat my position. A saved person should be baptized in water.

    Not a single scripture posted thus far connects water baptisim to salvation.

    I am also puzzled about something. A true works docrtine never allows for salvation, it's always a work in progress. Why would a works doctrine person argue that anything in itself yields salvation when you don't beleive it does? Just curious
     
  12. ONE MORE TIME, you are not being honest about this subject, will you also deny Acts 8:26-39?  Please look at vs. 36 and make your statement about water, God is not a respecter of persons, what he told them to do to be saved in the first century, applys to us also, THERE IS NO WAY AROUND IT.  WE MUST DO WHAT GOD SAID.

    You mention that we must humble ourselves before God, and aloud his Spirit to guide us, now will you take your own advice?

    Acts 8:26-39 is a classic case that cannot be denied, the water is there, salvation is there, remission of sins is there, washed away sins are there, forgiveness of sins are there, and for those who would bring up the "what if" you were in the desert cases, here is the answer from God.

    The real question is, do you have (faith only) to believe what the bible teaches in Acts 8:26-39.
     
  13. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    I have never denied any of scripture. I do not agree with your works doctrine but that is not a denial of scripture. Acts:26-39 says there was a baptisim, just like mine and yours. It dosn't say that without it there was no salvation.


    Again my position. A saved person should be baptized.
     
  14. Elnaam

    Elnaam Member

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    What? Where? Chp and verse. Baptism is not necessary for salvation, faith however is! Ah reminder the Theft on the cross was not baptized. Baptism means to immerse. And that is not neccessarily via water.
     
  15. Elnaam

    Elnaam Member

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    Yes a saved person should be baptized but baptism is not what saves a person, then again I know you and I agree. Blessings :clap:
     
  16. Why do you ask where is the water when a text has baptism or baptized in it, when you know what it means to be baptized, haven been baptized yourself?

    And why didn't you say where's the water in Acts 8:26-39 the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch?

    This is the perfect example of how one can become a christian, born of the water and of the spirit.  All of the elements are there, that we must do to be saved.

    Hearing the gospel

    Believing the gospel

    Repenting of one's sins

    Confessing the name of Jesus Christ

    Buried with him in baptism

    All can be founded in this conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch.  This is what the bible teaches and we should aways teach it too.
     
  17. Elnaam

    Elnaam Member

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    Peter is speaking to those already saved! Not those about to be saved. We are saved by GRACE through faith. Through: by means of. So it is faith that triggers God's Grace.
     
  18. What evidents do you have to say he was not baptized?

    Mark 1:5 And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

    Do you know for sure, that he was not one of the ALL in this number?
     
  19. What evidence do you have to show that he was not baptized?

    Mark 1:5 And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL BAPTIZED of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

    How do you know the theif was not in this great number of people?
     
  20. Do a careful study of Eph. 2:1-11 and see if you come to the same conclusion.

    Find out what it means to be raised up to sit with Christ.  Or to be quickened together with Christ.  Find out where in the bible that is saids we have been raised with Christ. 
     
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