Saved by faith alone?

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:) Mr. Louis Booth you took Romans 11:29 out of context, you must keep in mind when reading the bible, to keep all subjects in it proper context.
And that way you will not miss anything, like verse 21 in the 11th chapter.
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
:):):)
 
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Miss Shelby

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Romans 11 says it clearly in verse 29 "for God's gifts are irrevocable." You can't turn away once you become a christian.

If that were the only verse in the Bible you might have something there. :)

What about :

Ezekiel 33 1, 13
Matthew 10 33
Matthew 24 12
JOHN 15 16
Colossians 1 23
Hebrews 3 14
Hebrews 11, 35 39

There are many, many more.

Michelle
 
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Miss Shelby

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Hi Larry,

Like this

[ quote ] what ever you want inside [ / quote ]

Do it just like that except don't put spaces between the brackets and the word quote. :)   and don't put a space between the backslash before the second quote.  Hope that makes sense.

Michelle
 
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LouisBooth

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"Mr. Louis Booth you took Romans 11:29 out of context, you must keep in mind when reading the bible, to keep all subjects in it proper context.
"

Haven't taken it out of context at all, for if you look at the text instead of just saying, Its out of context, you will see it is comparing the fact that Isreal's gift God gave them, it like ours Look at verse 28 it is making a comparison "As far as the gospel is concerned they are enemise on your account; BUT as far as election is concenred, they are loved on account of the pariarches, for..."

He says, as the gospel goes they are your eneimies BUT like you they are also elected for the gifts of God are irrevocable. thus this verse, in context, says just what I said it did. Hope that helped.

Okay, Mat 10:33--christians don't disown God if they are true christians.
Just read John10:5

You mean Mat 24:10 not 12. :) Again I refer you to John 10:5 if you turn away, you never had it to begin with.

John 15:16 umm? This says That God appoints us, giving us more reason to think you can't give it up.

Col 1:23 This verse is a encouragement. unless you think he is lying in verse 22? You are now free of blemish through christ, does christ have to die again to make you clean again? Nope, cause you're forgiven already :) So again, you can't do something that makes you depart from salvation.

Heb 3 and 11 Again if you read in chapter 3..they never believed..check out verse 19 :)

As for chapter 11 I think I explained that already. :)

Hope that helped. As stands, when God says it, he means it miss shelby :) God's gifts (refering to election) are irrevocable
 
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LouisBooth

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"And that way you will not miss anything, like verse 21 in the 11th chapter.
"

Exactly, in terms of judgement as the context says. What Paul is saying is that don't rely on you being of a certain race, position, or lineage to save you. That's exactly what they were broken off for..look at verse 23 :)

unbelief. He then goes on to say that all of Israel will be saved and that you can't loose your election summing up this argument.
 
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Miss Shelby

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You caught me in a couple of typos there, Louis.

Matthew 24 13: But he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

That sounds conditional to me, Louis.

John 15 6 :) If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such brances are picked up thrown into the fire and burned.

Again Louis, this is telling me that have a degree of responsibility in maintaining an unbroken relationship with Christ.

What about the entire second epistle of Peter?

Michelle
 
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Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Mr. Louis Booth you took Romans 11:29 out of context, you must keep in mind when reading the bible, to keep all subjects in it proper context.
"

[Haven't taken it out of context at all, for if you look at the text instead of just saying, Its out of context, you will see it is comparing the fact that Isreal's gift God gave them, it like ours Look at verse 28 it is making a comparison "As far as the gospel is concerned they are enemise on your account; BUT as far as election is concenred, they are loved on account of the pariarches, for..."

He says, as the gospel goes they are your eneimies BUT like you they are also elected for the gifts of God are irrevocable. thus this verse, in context, says just what I said it did. Hope that helped.

Okay, Mat 10:33--christians don't disown God if they are true christians.
Just read John10:5

You mean Mat 24:10 not 12. :) Again I refer you to John 10:5 if you turn away, you never had it to begin with.

John 15:16 umm? This says That God appoints us, giving us more reason to think you can't give it up.

Col 1:23 This verse is a encouragement. unless you think he is lying in verse 22? You are now free of blemish through christ, does christ have to die again to make you clean again? Nope, cause you're forgiven already :) So again, you can't do something that makes you depart from salvation.

Heb 3 and 11 Again if you read in chapter 3..they never believed..check out verse 19 :)

As for chapter 11 I think I explained that already. :)

Hope that helped. As stands, when God says it, he means it miss shelby :) God's gifts (refering to election) are irrevocable]

 

If someone gives you a gift, you can do anything you want with it, because it no longer belongs to the giver, it belongs to you.

Now IF you decide you no longer want the gift you can throw it away, the giver will never force you to keep the gift.

This is the case, how people lose there salvation, they throw it away when they will not repent of sins and die in sins.
 
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lared

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Of course Noah had faith. But he also had to be obedient in order to get the ark built in order for him and his family to be protected from the flood.

Of course, eternal life is a gift that cannot be earned nor can one work their way into paradise. Without Jehovah God, could we ever obtain it?

But one should never forget the importance of obedience. Remember what Jesus said at Matthew 7:21:

(Matthew 7:21) "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will."

Works seems to be unpopular word. Then how about obedience?

Remember the all important activity that takes place prior to Armageddon?
Matthew 24:14 says:

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

Are you having part in it?

Jehovah's Witnesses spent more then 1,169,000,000 hours last year in declaring the good news in 235 lands around the globe in obedience to Jesus' command found at Matthew 28:18-20!

(Matthew 28:18-20) And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."
 
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LouisBooth

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"That sounds conditional to me, Louis."

Not if you take context into account. I again already refered you to the verse in John that says true christians NEVER turn away from God.

"Again Louis, this is telling me that have a degree of responsibility in maintaining an unbroken relationship with Christ."

You misunderstand the analogy here. Ask someone that knows about vineyards if they cute off branches that are wounded or not producing as much as they should. There you will get your answer. They graft it to a stronger branch so it might agian become healthy. They never directly cut it off. If you actually take some time to study that passage you'll get it.

"Yeah. You said that resurrection means rewards and I said that resurrection means resurrection. "

I guess you either 1. didn't understand my post or 2. didn't read my post.

This is why the exact words in the rest of the passage, did you not read the full passage or did you just stop when you saw something you wanted to take out of context?

"Now IF you decide you no longer want the gift you can throw it away, the giver will never force you to keep the gift."

Not according to Paul. You can't give it up, nor would you want to if you truely get it.

"Jehovah's Witnesses spent more then 1,169,000,000 hours last year in declaring the good news in 235 lands around the globe in obedience to Jesus' command found at Matthew 28:18-20!'

Yup, because if they dont' they loose their salvation. salvation is NOT works based, sorry to break it to ya. if you think so then you're preaching another gospel.
 
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Miss Shelby

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This is why the exact words in the rest of the passage, did you not read the full passage or did you just stop when you saw something you wanted to take out of context?

Louis...you are a very funny individual. :)

I read the whole chapter, Louis and the one before. Matter of fact, I have read the entire book of Hebrews. How am I taking Hebrews 11 35 39 out of context? It says RESURRECTION. It doesn't say rewards.

Heb 11 35,39

Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection..


John 5: 28

"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Two types of resurrections.  A better resurrection.  Can't be much clearer than that.

I fail to see how I am taking it out of context when I am merely taking it for WHAT IT SAYS!

Michelle
 
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LouisBooth

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"It says RESURRECTION. It doesn't say rewards. "

the comparison between their 'resurrection' and a christians resurrection is compared. What is the difference. the ONLY one that can possibly be is rewards, for in christ there is no jew, greek, rich, poor, ect... and as Paul wrote they recieved the same promice we did in terms of salvation. So if you want to hold to your view and let the bible contracdict itself, go for it, but I'll hold to mine :)
 
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Elnaam

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Originally posted by sola fide
Since I'd have to call myself a member of the "alone once saved always saved club" I thought I should make a quick comment on this thread.
I adhere to the faith alone doctrine...as my name would indicate(faith alone). But in honesty the faith isn't alone as franklin said earlier. faith ALONE is emphasized to show that no works can necessitate salvation...but I see you all have already discussed that one at length so I'll leave it alone.
I like the faith alone doctrine b/c faith is the only action humans can have towards God. My signature says it all- grace alone through faith alone through Christ alone. God provides the grace, Christ provides the cross, but God imputes us with the faith that leads us to accept God's actions. Good works are vital to the christian life, but they definitely have nothing to do with salvation...It's after we've exercised our God given faith that we can do good works.
Ephesians ch. 2 tells the whole story. Verse 10 tells us that God has before ordained us to walk into the good works He has already made possible. The faith alone doctrine is solid. Ephesians 2:8,9 is a powerful piece of scripture to protestant belief, especially to me being that I deem myself reformed. Without faith it is impossible to please God. I don't know that I accomplished anything with that post, but at least my 2 cents are free. God bless.

Soli Deo gloria!

Soli Deo gloria!
Yeah and Amen!
 
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lared

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If Noah had given up midstream on building the ark, would he have survived the flood? Was it his works that saved him or was it his faith?

Genesis 6:22 says:

(Genesis 6:22) And Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.

This topic could go around in circles for years, to the waste of valuable time that could be used in preaching the good news to all the nations.

The designation, Jehovah's Witnesses indicates an action. If one of Jehovah's Witnesses stops witnessesing, can they still be thought of one of Jehovah's Witnesses? Are they earning their salvation or simply in compliance with their Lord's request?

Of course we are encouraged to preach and teach. Jesus commanded us to do such. And it is a delight. We have the most interesting experiences and it is very rewarding. It is also challenging to speak to people of every background conceivable.

The thought of 'work' is distasteful to many, others have no idea how to preach or teach, and the majority have no idea what the good news is all about in the first place.

Thus, our activity is looked down upon and found fault with in a twisted way.

But the facts are in, that the good news is being spread around the whole earth for a witness to all the nations.

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

All to the praise of our grand creator, Jehovah God.

(Ezekiel 11:12) and YOU will have to know that I am Jehovah, because in my regulations YOU did not walk and my judgments YOU did not do, but according to the judgments of the nations that are round about YOU, YOU have done.'"
 
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LouisBooth

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"If Noah had given up midstream on building the ark, would he have survived the flood? Was it his works that saved him or was it his faith?"

Quite a different situation. If I am a christian and am baptised and pick up a snake it bites me and I die was I not a christian? Silly assurtions like that are not logical at all.

"The designation, Jehovah's Witnesses indicates an action. "

yeah, they aren't exactly biblical when it comes to some other things either though :) Have you read the book of galatians lately?
 
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Miss Shelby

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the comparison between their 'resurrection' and a christians resurrection is compared.&nbsp; . What is the difference. the ONLY one that can possibly be is rewards, for in christ there is no jew, greek, rich, poor, ect... and as Paul wrote they recieved the same promice we did in terms of salvation. So if you want to hold to your view and let the bible contracdict itself, go for it, but I'll hold to mine <IMG alt="" src="http://christianforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border=0>

If that were the case, why does the text not say... they refused to deny their faith so that they might gain a bigger mansion, or...they refused to deny their faith so that they might be more abundantly rewarded when they reached their heavenly destination.....or they refused to deny their faith so that they might receive another jewel in their crown of life?

I suppose it would just simplify things too much to take it for what it says, ay? ;)&nbsp;&nbsp; And for the record, I don't think that Paul taught that salvation was a one size fits all one moment in time deal.&nbsp; I believe he taught that it was an ongoing unbroken relationship with the Living&nbsp; God.

Michelle
 
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Elnaam

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Originally posted by lared
If Noah had given up midstream on building the ark, would he have survived the flood? Was it his works that saved him or was it his faith?

Genesis 6:22 says:

(Genesis 6:22) And Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.

There wasn't a cloud in the sky, and Noah builds a Ark to withstand a coming global flood, faith in God came first not doing the work

This topic could go around in circles for years, to the waste of valuable time that could be used in preaching the good news to all the nations.
Regardless the Scriptures ( The Good News) states in Eph 2:8 that we are saved by Grace through faith.

The designation, Jehovah's Witnesses indicates an action. If one of Jehovah's Witnesses stops witnessesing, can they still be thought of one of Jehovah's Witnesses? Are they earning their salvation or simply in compliance with their Lord's request?
Is that what you profess, being a Jehovah's Witness?
 
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[Regardless the Scriptures ( The Good News) states in Eph 2:8 that we are saved by Grace through faith.]

&nbsp;

Does this passage exclude all other passages?

Let's talk plain TRUTH.

DOES the bible say in Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins?&nbsp; Yes or NO?

Does the bible say in Romans 6:3-4 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

This is the TRUTH DO YOU AGREE?
 
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