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Saved by faith alone?

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by franklin, Aug 13, 2002.

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  1. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "But I refuse to sit on my hands and say, "I'm saved" "

    Umm..you're missing the point, No person that adheres to faith alone says you should "sit on your hands" anymore then you say you can work you way to heaven. Don't overgeneralize.
     
  2. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    Actually both answers are correct and both persons would be as equals before God. And what of Jesus' parable of the Pharisee and Tax Collector who went to the temple to pray. :)

    And what about the thief on the cross? He falls under option 2.
     
  3. Annabel Lee

    Annabel Lee Beware the Thought Police

    +1,100
    Christian
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    Then tell me Louis because I'm getting mixed answers from everyone.

    Why are good works looked down upon by some of the OSAS Christians?

    How is a Catholic doing good works different from a Born Again doing good works?
    How is what you do in life and how you treat others NOT a good thing?

    For years I've been trying to understand this and can not.
    If you can help me understand louis I would really appreciate it but PLEASE no condecension.
     
  4. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "Why are good works looked down upon by some of the OSAS Christians?"

    They aren't. They are not needed though. To say the are is to say that you must work you way to heaven.

    "How is what you do in life and how you treat others NOT a good thing?"

    I didn't say that, please don't put words in my mouth. I'm not talking to you condecendingly, or not meaning to. What you are saying is exactly what you accuse the other "side" of the issue of doing. I know people that say you must have works don't believe you have to work your way to heaven (nonOSAS). Yet you say that if you are OSAS you HATE doing works or you just sit on your hands all the time. No person that believes in perservation of the saints believes this. You are overgeneralizing and creating a strawman.

    As far as explaination, its how christ accepts you. Christ accepts you with no strings attached. Your salvation is not based on something you can do to earn it. Thus faith alone. The works flow naturally from your love of Christ but are not required for salvation. They are an "afterthought". This is what sanctification is all about.
     
  5. Job_38

    Job_38 <font size="1"> In perfect orbit they have circled

    +1
    If we had to work our way ot Heaven, then leave me out! Cause Romans says it is impossible, because we are all unrighteous, God being Righteous how can you reach it?
     
  6. Annabel Lee

    Annabel Lee Beware the Thought Police

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    "They aren't. They are not needed though. To say the are is to say that you must work you way to heaven."

    But as good Christians we should do good works. I just feel that God would want us to help our fellow man. How could it be otherwise?

    "I didn't say that, please don't put words in my mouth"

    I was'nt referring to you when I said that. I meant some Christians I've spoken to.

    " As far as explaination, its how christ accepts you. Christ accepts you with no strings attached. Your salvation is not based on something you can do to earn it. Thus faith alone. The works flow naturally from your love of Christ but are not required for salvation. They are an "afterthought". This is what sanctification is all about."

    We aren't as far apart as you think. I don't think you can earn your way into Heaven either. I just believe that something more is expected of us here. Maybe works flowing naturally from love of God is the same thing.
    I'll have to think about it.
    Thank you Louis.
     
  7. Job_38

    Job_38 <font size="1"> In perfect orbit they have circled

    +1
    You are right, we are to help our fellow man. Its just not needed. But with a love we have for our savior, I am happy to do work for others, because, forgot where, it talks about how the discpiples have served Christ. They ask how and he says whenever you help the poor man or the weaker.
     
  8. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

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    Hi there annabel, that is one excellent, excellent artilce you linked in this post!&nbsp; I will read it again!&nbsp; You have nailed it right on within this thread with the replies you have posted so far and I had to laugh at the one fellow who was trying to give you advice?&nbsp;&nbsp; :( &nbsp;I almost fell out of my chair!&nbsp; :D&nbsp;&nbsp; He needs to be paying more attention to the wisdom you have aquired over the years you have been living on this planet.&nbsp;&nbsp;You just keep on preaching and teaching it sister!&nbsp; I love your posts!
     
  9. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

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    Pretty subtle insult there.
     
  10. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    1 Corinthians 13
    If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

    Michelle
     
  11. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "But as good Christians we should do good works. I just feel that God would want us to help our fellow man. How could it be otherwise?"

    I agree, but does he force us to do them or loose our salvation? Not at all...

    "I was'nt referring to you when I said that. I meant some Christians I've spoken to."

    YOu addressed me so I think in the future you should be more specific who you address it to then?

    "Thank you Louis."

    You're welcome :) I really don't think we are far away at all, just looking at it from 2 angles. I am concerned with not forcing people to do things in order to preserve what I see as God's love and acceptace. You are concerned with not making this "faith" meaningless and nonexsistant as to the people God says, "Depart from me I never knew you." I would say that the works you say happen do happen, but are not NEEDED per say, because we are accepted fully by God no matter what we do or do not do. I would also submit that out of that love that flows into you you want to do "works" but I (being concerned with what was pointed out) would tact on you don't have to.
     
  12. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

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    Please Note: Let's not let this thread deteriorate into insults against each other. Everyone has his own opinion and let's respect that and be kind to one another as Christ would be toward us. No one person is better than another. If insults continue, I will close the thread.

    Thank you for your cooperation.
     
  13. sola fide

    sola fide neo-Puritan

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    Since I'd have to call myself a member of the "alone once saved always saved club" I thought I should make a quick comment on this thread.
    I adhere to the faith alone doctrine...as my name would indicate(faith alone). But in honesty the faith isn't alone as franklin said earlier. faith ALONE is emphasized to show that no works can necessitate salvation...but I see you all have already discussed that one at length so I'll leave it alone.
    I like the faith alone doctrine b/c faith is the only action humans can have towards God. My signature says it all- grace alone through faith alone through Christ alone. God provides the grace, Christ provides the cross, but God imputes us with the faith that leads us to accept God's actions. Good works are vital to the christian life, but they definitely have nothing to do with salvation...It's after we've exercised our God given faith that we can do good works.
    Ephesians ch. 2 tells the whole story. Verse 10 tells us that God has before ordained us to walk into the good works He has already made possible. The faith alone doctrine is solid. Ephesians 2:8,9 is a powerful piece of scripture to protestant belief, especially to me being that I deem myself reformed. Without faith it is impossible to please God. I don't know that I accomplished anything with that post, but at least my 2 cents are free. God bless.

    Soli Deo gloria!

    Soli Deo gloria!
     
  14. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    I'd like to make it clear that I wasn't slinging this verse at anyone personally.... I think it gives additional support to the case against sola fide.

    Michelle
     
  15. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    Personally I beleive that 1 Cor 13 dosn't show a flaw in any doctrine but it reveals much more in regards to this thread. In my humble and personal opinion this discussion has a deep flaw. Faith alone is not a doctrine of any sort, Grace alone is. We are saved by making a decision, the fact that its possible is by the grace of God. If God left salvation to our ability to maintain faith we would all be lost. So think about this. If God's grace actually saves us (suppose I am right here) how can I go around this system and save myself just in case His grace is not sufficent?

    Blessings
     
  16. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

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    I see you picked out one of your favorites from the list I posted in the saved by alone and only's list.... grace!&nbsp; So you think grace alone saves you?&nbsp; I think your missing the whole point of this thread mr&nbsp;"ElderMike", the scriptures that I have posted in this thread has nothing to do with saving yourself!&nbsp; It has to do with living faith as opposed to a dead faith!&nbsp; Maybe you need to further study James 2:14-26 and go back and re-read my posts in this thread!&nbsp; James gives the correct definition of faith alone, mans definition of faith alone or anything alone is totally unscriptural&nbsp;and flawed!&nbsp; Is it God's grace alone that saves you?&nbsp; (Philippians 2:12-13): "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.&nbsp;And (Hebrews 5:9): "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him."&nbsp; In my humble opinion I haven't seen you point out from scripture where you think this thread is deeply flawed.&nbsp; &nbsp; May I suggest to you mr "ElderMike", that you start doing your homework!&nbsp;

    All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
    (2Timothy 3:16,17)
    &nbsp;
     
  17. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    First off, with all due respect...just because you don't like the premise of the thread doesn't mean we aren't entitled to discuss it.

    Second, no one has said that works saves a person.&nbsp; What&nbsp; has been said is that faith must be put into action... because that is what the Bible teaches.&nbsp; Nowhere does the Bible teach that we are saved by Grace through faith alone.&nbsp; Saved by Grace, yes.&nbsp; Saved by Grace through faith, yes.&nbsp; Faith alone? Nada.

    Michelle
     
  18. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    Friends!

    Why don't we consult God about this? While it is true that we are saved by grace THROUGH faith (Eph. 2:8), it is equally true that "faith WITHOUT works" is DEAD (James 2:17, 26). How can a DEAD faith save anyone? No way!

    So how can we reconcile these verses? We should bear in mind that one CANNOT be saved unless he is REDEEMED by the blood of Christ and his sins are forgiven. Thus;

    Jesus said: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' shall ENTER the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the WILL of my Father in heaven" (Matt. 7:21).

    Jesus said: "I am the door. If anyone ENTERS by me, he will be saved..." (John 10:9).

    Jesus said: "He who BELIEVES and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED" (Mark 16:16).

    And Jesus COMMANDED his disciples to BAPTIZE in the name of..." (Matt. 28:19).

    What do these verses tell us? Can we be saved WITHOUT doing these things that Jesus COMMANDED us to do?

    These verses are telling us that "faith in Christ" means&nbsp;BELIEVING&nbsp; in him and OBEYING his COMMANDS.&nbsp; Faith in Christ and obeying his commands&nbsp;LEAD to justification and&nbsp;doing good works or bearing fruits of righteousness (John 15:1) ENSURES salvation.

    Thus, Faith + Works (OBEYING Jesus) = Justification (redemption through Christ's blood and forgiveness of sins); and

    Justification + works (bearing fruits of righteousness) = SALVATION

    Ed

    &nbsp;
     
  19. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    No you may not. But I am suggesting that you change your tone with me.
     
  20. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    Miss Shelby,

    Yes, you may discuss this all you care to. i was suggesting otherwise. I was putting forth my opinion. Mine has no more or less value than anyones.

    Blessings to you
     
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