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Saved by faith alone?

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by franklin, Aug 13, 2002.

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  1. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

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    WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH ABOUT FAITH ONLY?

     
    The bible clearly teaches that we are saved by faith. Can we therefore conclude that we are saved by faith only? In reality, the bible teaches that there are many things by which we are saved. Consider the following:

    1. We are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8): "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God." Are we saved by grace only?

    2. We are saved by hope (Romans 8:24-5): "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it]." Are we saved by hope only?

    3. We are saved by faith (John 3:16): "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." Are we saved by faith only?

    4. We are saved by faith and baptism (Mark 16:16): "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Can we be saved by faith if we refuse to be baptized? Can we be saved by baptism if we fail to believe?

    5. We are saved by baptism (1 Peter 3:21): "The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Are we saved by baptism only?

    This is just a partial list, but it demonstrates some things about the doctrine of faith only.  Is there a definition in the scriptures that clearly explains the true doctrine of faith only?  The words faith and only come together only once in the bible. (James 2:14-26)
     
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  2. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
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    Interesting.

    As you learn more about the faith, these things will become clearer to you. If you look carefully at those verses and their context, it will become clear that all those things ARE faith, the product of faith, the action of faith and the decision to be faithful.
     
  3. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    Exactly lamb, exactly :) all sanctification actions. Oh..and frank, its by grace through faith, ie faith alone still.....thought I would help clarify.
     
  4. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

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    Did we add that word in there, or did Luther? :rolleyes:
     
  5. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

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    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:   Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Just thought I would help you out Booth, don't forget vs 10 highlited in bold!  Like James says, you say you have faith?  If your faith doesn't have works, you have a dead faith!  I know booth, put any kind of spin you want on the scripture that'll fit your agenda or whatever makes you feel comfortable! Face the facts booth, scriptural fact, the "faith alone and only" doctrine is totally foreign in the word of God! 
     
  6. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Monkey Boy

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    Franklin,

    Think of it like this.  I can have faith that I am a member of the Dallas Cowboys even though I can't play football that well.  But the coach in his grace let me be a part of the roster.  However if I never suit out what good am I at all to anyone?  I am still a part of the roster but if I never suit out or play then my faith does not affect anyone else.  Also no one will believe that I am a part of the roster if I never suit out.  Also have you ever heard of such a thing?  No so it is a very good indication that my faith is faulty. 

    Okay maybe not the best example but maybe it will help. 

    blackhawk
     
  7. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

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    BH, you love your football analagies ey? The last I checked in order to make a pro team like the Cowboys, the coach does not apply grace to qualify for his team!  I don't even think he will let his nephew play if he thought he didnt play football well! your heart might be in it but the coach will most likely say thanks for your zeal to play on a pro team but you are not pro material!  Does someone have to be a pro to play on God's team? Don't think so!  Look at the twelve Jesus selected to follow Him!  Was Jesus looking for professionals?  The professionals were the ones who wanted Him crucified!  The best definition of faith alone is described by James in his second chapter.... If you want another great definition and examples included, then go further in your bible to Hebrews chapter 11; do you see the men and women in this chapter living by faith alone?  I suppose if Noah depended on faith alone, the ark would have just built itself?  Need I go on any further with the other examples in chapter 11 ? ? ?    
     
  8. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
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    He ordained that His people would do good works,(ei, good deeds, faithful actions, acting in faith), not that the good deeds would save us.

    He didn't save us so we could go about lives of sin and waste, but that we would spend our lives for Him, demonstrating His love to others and acting justly and righteously for His name's sake.
     
  9. Annabel Lee

    Annabel Lee Beware the Thought Police

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    Grace is a gift from God. But to rely on faith alone does not grant you salvation.


    "What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." - James 2:14-26
     
  10. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    lambslove, I am curious to know why you think he isn't mature in the faith?   From what I've read so far he is.  TEACH IT, franklin.

    Michelle
     
  11. Smilin

    Smilin Spirit of the Wolf

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    Nice thread Franklin, and annabel lee, nice touch.
    If we aren't working for Christ, our faith is lacking.
     
  12. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

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    It wasn't an insult. It was merely an observation. We all need to mature in the Lord, and the process isn't complete until we go to heaven. Even Christ and St Paul often preached to people that they must mature in their spiritual lives and understanding of God.

    Works are the product of faith, not the foundation of faith. It's a big theme in the Bible. Your good deeds by themselves mean nothing. It is only as an expression of faith that good works amount to anything in God's eyes.

    If works alone did it, we would all be lost, since 99% of the things we do, we do out of selfishness, and not to be good or just.

    What does the Bible say? "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. " Romans 3:27

    Or "For what does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.'" Romans 4:3

    If we can be saved by doing good works, why did Christ die on the Cross? What made his death necessary, if we can be saved by the things we do?
     
  13. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    Lambslove,

    Amen
     
  14. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

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    Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. Romans 4:4

    Yep. You read it right; works=debt when it comes to salvation. The harder you try to work your way to heaven, the less righteous you get!
     
  15. Angyl

    Angyl New Member

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    The idea that we need to "work" our way to salvation is appalling.  It demeans God (we're capable of satisfying his holiness on our own) and contradicts the Bible every which way I can imagine.
     
  16. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

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    Hi angl, here is another one we can add to the list of saved by the alone and onlys: We are saved by acts of obedience (Philippians 2:12-13): "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure." And (Hebrews 5:9): "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." Are we saved by acts of obedience only?  These are not works of our own creation. They must be the works of God. The works that God requires of us to do is not a contradiction of the scripture as is so plainly defined by James and Paul. Works outside of Christ as you have described is appalling and I agree, however, as believers we might argue over just what is required, but we cannot argue that some act or acts of obedience are required (even if it is only faith). It is necessary for us to become familiar with the New Testament to determine just what these works are.  Do I hear an amen out there? Can I get a witness?   :)  


     
     
  17. Annabel Lee

    Annabel Lee Beware the Thought Police

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  18. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

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    Can you do all the works in the world yet get to judgement and hear God say, "Nope not enough. Goodbye."?
     
  19. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "Just thought I would help you out Booth, don't forget vs 10 highlited in bold! "

    I didn't forget it...what I wonder is that if works are so meaningful, why is it that in pretty much ever instance of salvation in the NT we never see them go and do good works..? Its faith that saves you, faith, and that's it.

    Gal 3:22 "But the scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promiced, being given THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who beieve.

    If you want to look at James you need to read the FIRST chapter, for that is where he frames the famous (and usually taken out of context) second chapter.
     
  20. Annabel Lee

    Annabel Lee Beware the Thought Police

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    I was doing good works when I was an agnostic. I'm not doing it to get into heaven. We have a very short time on this planet and while we're here why not do good? If someone wants to call it "works", fine.
    But I refuse to sit on my hands and say, "I'm saved"
    Who is the better person....
    1.The person who devotes their whole life to helping others or
    2.The person who lives an evil life and 1 hour before death repents and accepts Jesus?

    I vote for #1
     
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