Saudi Arabia in the Bible: Destroyed!

keras

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Right, Nebuchadnezzar did conquer most of the Mid East circa 587/6 BCE.
But Isaiah 29 is not referring to that, because Isa 29:6-7 says the Lord Himself will destroy those attacking Ariel [Jerusalem] with thunder, earthquake and flames of fire.
Verses 1-4 say that J,lem will also be devastated and the survivors will hide underground. This has not happened as described as yet and it matches the many prophesies about the terrible Day of the Lord, the next the happen event.
Then- Isaiah 29:17-24 the holy Land is regenerated and Jacob [righteous Israel] will return there and 'stand in awe of their God'.
Your extrapolation of past events into obviously future prophecy is bad exegesis and proves verse 11 'To you the prophetic vision of it all has become like a sealed book...'
 
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ebedmelech

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Right, Nebuchadnezzar did conquer most of the Mid East circa 587/6 BCE.
But Isaiah 29 is not referring to that, because Isa 29:6-7 says the Lord Himself will destroy those attacking Ariel [Jerusalem] with thunder, earthquake and flames of fire.
Herein is the problem...that you don't understand Nebuchadnezzar is God's instrument in carrying that out. Did you pay attention to Jeremiah 27:1-3? God is telling Zedekiah that He is about to judge him though Babylon.

Next...haven't you read the Psalms? Do you not read how the Psalms will equate war in terms of earthquakes and the like? This is the language of judgement/affliction from God. Just as when Job put on sackcloth and ashes and describes his affliction. Read Job 3 as he describes in language of darkness and gloom how God has afflicted him. That's how the prophets are speaking when they speak of stars fallling, the sun darkened...etc.

Don't diminish what God said He did with Nebuchadnezzar either...it says "ALL THE NATIONS SHALL serve him and his son and his grandson until the time of his own land comes; then many nations and great kings will make him their servant." So that's what it was...you diminshing that with your logic...changes what God said. Just as I referred you to what God said of Nebuchadnezzar through Daniel, in Daniel 2:36-39...but you want to say otherwise.
Verses 1-4 say that J,lem will also be devastated and the survivors will hide underground. This has not happened as described as yet and it matches the many prophesies about the terrible Day of the Lord, the next the happen event.
Now...go to Jeremiah 39, 2 King 24, and Jeramiah 52. Get the full picture. because it certainly occurred.
Then- Isaiah 29:17-24 the holy Land is regenerated and Jacob [righteous Israel] will return there and 'stand in awe of their God'.
Your extrapolation of past events into obviously future prophecy is bad exegesis and proves verse 11 'To you the prophetic vision of it all has become like a sealed book...'
No extrapolation at all...what it is is you not knowing of the 400 silent years when God remained silent and didn't speak through any prophets until John the baptist came. Israel was restored, the temple rebuilt, and even though under Rome, they were prosperous and dwelling in total safety.

Christ comes into the world and He is God in human flesh...the messiah of Israel. Wonder why you don't acknowledge that??? :confused:
 
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keras

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Quote from EM: "No extrapolation at all...what it is is you not knowing of the 400 silent years when God remained silent and didn't speak through any prophets until John the baptist came. Israel was restored, the temple rebuilt, and even though under Rome, they were prosperous and dwelling in total safety".
This is an entirely incorrect statement. You are surely aware that God is still to judge the nations? Why then do you deny Isa 29 as being a prophecy of that forthcoming event and attempt to throw it all into past history?
Israel was not restored under Rome, the country was known as Judea, inhabited by Jewish people, by no means all of the 12 tribes, the separation maintained by all the prophets in over 160 Bible passages, only to be re-joined in the last days as per Ezekiel 37. They had a Temple, but it was not as great as Solomon's Temple, we await another; Haggai 2:9 Total safety then? No way.
We have now had almost 2000 years of silence from God, He is about to speak once again, Bible prophecy tells us what to expect, be aware and be prepared.
 
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ebedmelech

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Quote from EM: "No extrapolation at all...what it is is you not knowing of the 400 silent years when God remained silent and didn't speak through any prophets until John the baptist came. Israel was restored, the temple rebuilt, and even though under Rome, they were prosperous and dwelling in total safety".
This is an entirely incorrect statement. You are surely aware that God is still to judge the nations? Why then do you deny Isa 29 as being a prophecy of that forthcoming event and attempt to throw it all into past history?
You're taking what I said too far. I said God was silent..which means he didn't prophecy to Israel though prophets. That doesn't mean He wasn't reigning...so that's a big difference. God was silent, not speaking to Israel anymore until He sent John the Baptist. How is it you don't know this? Malachi was the last prophet until John the Baptist

When God judges the nations this time it will be through Christ...just as Jesus said in John 5:22:
22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,
Israel was not restored under Rome, the country was known as Judea, inhabited by Jewish people, by no means all of the 12 tribes, the separation maintained by all the prophets in over 160 Bible passages, only to be re-joined in the last days as per Ezekiel 37. They had a Temple, but it was not as great as Solomon's Temple, we await another; Haggai 2:9 Total safety then? No way.
We have now had almost 2000 years of silence from God, He is about to speak once again, Bible prophecy tells us what to expect, be aware and be prepared.
Well...let's let God tell you about it. When God sent Joseph back from Egypt in Matthew 2:20, this is what He said to Joseph:
20 “Get up, take the Child and His mother, and go into the land of Israel; for those who sought the Child’s life are dead.”

God sent Joseph back to Israel.

How about some more scripture to prove that Judea was in Israel:

Jesus said in Matthew 8:10:
Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, “Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel.

Are you saying God and Jesus were confused? Or do you need more proof this was the nation Israel?

Are you aware that it was prophesied Israel would no longer be divided into two kingdoms? That would be Ezekiel 37:22-28.
 
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Interplanner

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Keras,
re Acts 13:40
I don't know that it is necessarily a disaster. I can't think what would make you think that. It is more along the line of surprise, just as it surprised Habbakkuk's audience that God was use the awful Chaldeans to punish Israel. Paul meant that the mission of the Gospel would go out to the nations who eagerly welcomed the thought of being justified by God's own work, as compared with the more self-made Israel who did not accept that. Meanwhile, Israel would self-destruct.

But that fact that a reference was made to the first destruction of Israel is curious enough to cause his audience to realize that the same thing could happen again--and did.
 
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keras

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EM, yes the Land is Israel, but at that time the people were Jews and the Roman province was called Judea. Are you thinking Ezekiel 37 has been fulfilled? I suggest you read it again slowly and carefully and if you really think it has all happened, then you are a denier of reality.
IP, doom doesn't mean disaster? Another denier of reality. Deut. 32:34-35
Swordfall; There several threads on America's place in prophecy. Expect a dramatic change to your complacent lifestyle very soon.
 
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ebedmelech

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EM, yes the Land is Israel, but at that time the people were Jews and the Roman province was called Judea. Are you thinking Ezekiel 37 has been fulfilled? I suggest you read it again slowly and carefully and if you really think it has all happened, then you are a denier of reality.
Actually no. Ezekiel 37:21-28 is not totally fulfilled...but to deny that Israel was again one Nation with one king is pretty much to deny what the passage says!
Ezekiel 37:21, 22:
21 Say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;
22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations and no longer be divided into two kingdoms.


I suggest you read Matthew 2. Israel had one king, which was Herod, That this portion was called "Judea" is not an issue because Israel was never divided into tribes when God gathered them back to the land. If you have read the books of the regathering you would now this. As Jesus walks through Israel where do you read of any tribal divisions?

Judea beings a Roman province is not at issue THE NATION is called Israel, so once again you major on minor issues. Why is Jerusalem still Jerusalem at this time?

For instance...explain why Jesus called it Judea in Acts 1:8?
8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

Did you know Judea means "he shall be praised"? Obviously not. This is nothing but a "side bar" by you keras.

I'll leave you to respond before going further.
 
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Keras,
slow down, you're getting incoherent. Wasn't this about a "disaster" in Acts 13's quote of Habbakkuk? Well, your last remark is like we never talked. Don't you know the background of his quoting Habbakkuk? How surprised Israel was that God would bring a worse nation against them?
 
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keras

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When your passionate about something....
IP, What Paul said in Acts 13:40-41, does apply to that time, the Romans as well as to the Babylonian conquest, but I am sure I have said before, that Ezekiel 21:14 says there will be three judgements/punishments of Judah. We await the third. Jeremiah 10:18 This time, I shall throw out the whole population of the Land...
Amos 2:4...I shall send fire upon Judah...
Try to realize that most of the Bible prophecy applies to our time, the end of the 6000 years of mankind's unsuccessful efforts to live right and respect our environment, etc. God is about to intervene, we are told what He will do and the testing that everyone must face, the result will be a people who belong to Him, the rest have a very unpleasant fate.
 
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Zadok7000

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John, Yeshuasavedme and I rarely agree on end time prophesy
but this one is bang on IMO


:thumbsup:


My eyes have been opened on this. Yes Babylon means confusion, and just looking at Mystery Babylon in Revelation could lead one in several directions, but the specific geography its Old Testament references leaves no doubt. See below.
 
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Zadok7000

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[Isa 13:1 NASB] The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.
[Isa 13:2 NASB] Lift up a standard on the bare hill, Raise your voice to them, Wave the hand that they may enter the doors of the nobles.
[Isa 13:3 NASB] I have commanded My consecrated ones, I have even called My mighty warriors, My proudly exulting ones, To execute My anger.
[Isa 13:4 NASB] A sound of tumult on the mountains, Like that of many people! A sound of the uproar of kingdoms, Of nations gathered together! The LORD of hosts is mustering the army for battle.
[Isa 13:5 NASB] They are coming from a far country, From the farthest horizons, The LORD and His instruments of indignation, To destroy the whole land.
[Isa 13:6 NASB] Wail, for the day of the LORD is near! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.
[Isa 13:7 NASB] Therefore all hands will fall limp, And every man's heart will melt.
[Isa 13:8 NASB] They will be terrified, Pains and anguish will take hold of them; They will writhe like a woman in labor, They will look at one another in astonishment, Their faces aflame.
[Isa 13:9 NASB] Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it.
[Isa 13:10 NASB] For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light.
[Isa 13:11 NASB] Thus I will punish the world for its evil And the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless.
[Isa 13:12 NASB] I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold And mankind than the gold of Ophir.
[Isa 13:13 NASB] Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, And the earth will be shaken from its place At the fury of the LORD of hosts In the day of His burning anger.
[Isa 13:14 NASB] And it will be that like a hunted gazelle, Or like sheep with none to gather them, They will each turn to his own people, And each one flee to his own land.
[Isa 13:15 NASB] Anyone who is found will be thrust through, And anyone who is captured will fall by the sword.
[Isa 13:16 NASB] Their little ones also will be dashed to pieces Before their eyes; Their houses will be plundered And their wives ravished.
[Isa 13:17 NASB] Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them, Who will not value silver or take pleasure in gold.
[Isa 13:18 NASB] And their bows will mow down the young men, They will not even have compassion on the fruit of the womb, Nor will their eye pity children.
[Isa 13:19 NASB] And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans' pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
[Isa 13:20 NASB] It will never be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation; Nor will the Arab pitch his tent there, Nor will shepherds make their flocks lie down there.
[Isa 13:21 NASB] But desert creatures will lie down there, And their houses will be full of owls; Ostriches also will live there, and shaggy goats will frolic there.
[Isa 13:22 NASB] Hyenas will howl in their fortified towers And jackals in their luxurious palaces. Her fateful time also will soon come And her days will not be prolonged.


[Isa 21:1 NASB] The oracle concerning the wilderness (desert) of the sea. As windstorms in the Negev sweep on, It comes from the wilderness, from a terrifying land.
[Isa 21:2 NASB] A harsh vision has been shown to me; The treacherous one still deals treacherously, and the destroyer still destroys. Go up, Elam, lay siege, Media; I have made an end of all the groaning she has caused.
[Isa 21:3 NASB] For this reason my loins are full of anguish; Pains have seized me like the pains of a woman in labor. I am so bewildered I cannot hear, so terrified I cannot see.
[Isa 21:4 NASB] My mind reels, horror overwhelms me; The twilight I longed for has been turned for me into trembling.
[Isa 21:5 NASB] They set the table, they spread out the cloth, they eat, they drink; "Rise up, captains, oil the shields,"
[Isa 21:6 NASB] For thus the Lord says to me, "Go, station the lookout, let him report what he sees.
[Isa 21:7 NASB] "When he sees riders, horsemen in pairs, A train of donkeys, a train of camels, Let him pay close attention, very close attention."
[Isa 21:8 NASB] Then the lookout called, "O Lord, I stand continually by day on the watchtower, And I am stationed every night at my guard post.
[Isa 21:9 NASB] "Now behold, here comes a troop of riders, horsemen in pairs." And one said, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon; And all the images of her gods are shattered on the ground."
[Isa 21:10 NASB] O my threshed people, and my afflicted of the threshing floor! What I have heard from the LORD of hosts, The God of Israel, I make known to you.
[Isa 21:11 NASB] The oracle concerning Edom. One keeps calling to me from Seir, "Watchman, how far gone is the night? Watchman, how far gone is the night?"
[Isa 21:12 NASB] The watchman says, "Morning comes but also night. If you would inquire, inquire; Come back again."
[Isa 21:13 NASB] The oracle about Arabia. In the thickets of Arabia you must spend the night, O caravans of Dedanites.
[Isa 21:14 NASB] Bring water for the thirsty, O inhabitants of the land of Tema, Meet the fugitive with bread.
[Isa 21:15 NASB] For they have fled from the swords, From the drawn sword, and from the bent bow And from the press of battle.
[Isa 21:16 NASB] For thus the Lord said to me, "In a year, as a hired man would count it, all the splendor of Kedar will terminate;
[Isa 21:17 NASB] and the remainder of the number of bowmen, the mighty men of the sons of Kedar, will be few; for the LORD God of Israel has spoken."


[Psa 137:1 NASB] By the rivers of Babylon, There we sat down and wept, When we remembered Zion.
[Psa 137:2 NASB] Upon the willows in the midst of it We hung our harps.
[Psa 137:3 NASB] For there our captors demanded of us songs, And our tormentors mirth, saying, "Sing us one of the songs of Zion."
[Psa 137:4 NASB] How can we sing the LORD'S song In a foreign land?
[Psa 137:5 NASB] If I forget you, O Jerusalem, May my right hand forget her skill.
[Psa 137:6 NASB] May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth If I do not remember you, If I do not exalt Jerusalem Above my chief joy.
[Psa 137:7 NASB] Remember, O LORD, against the sons of Edom The day of Jerusalem, Who said, "Raze it, raze it To its very foundation."
[Psa 137:8 NASB] O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one, How blessed will be the one who repays you With the recompense with which you have repaid us.
[Psa 137:9 NASB] How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.


[Jer 49:7 NASB] Concerning Edom. Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Is there no longer any wisdom in Teman? Has good counsel been lost to the prudent? Has their wisdom decayed?
[Jer 49:8 NASB] "Flee away, turn back, dwell in the depths, O inhabitants of Dedan, For I will bring the disaster of Esau upon him At the time I punish him.
[Jer 49:9 NASB] "If grape gatherers came to you, Would they not leave gleanings? If thieves came by night, They would destroy only until they had enough.
[Jer 49:10 NASB] "But I have stripped Esau bare, I have uncovered his hiding places So that he will not be able to conceal himself; His offspring has been destroyed along with his relatives And his neighbors, and he is no more.
[Jer 49:11 NASB] "Leave your orphans behind, I will keep them alive; And let your widows trust in Me."
[Jer 49:12 NASB] For thus says the LORD, "Behold, those who were not sentenced to drink the cup will certainly drink it, and are you the one who will be completely acquitted? You will not be acquitted, but you will certainly drink it.
[Jer 49:13 NASB] "For I have sworn by Myself," declares the LORD, "that Bozrah will become an object of horror, a reproach, a ruin and a curse; and all its cities will become perpetual ruins."
[Jer 49:14 NASB] I have heard a message from the LORD, And an envoy is sent among the nations, saying, "Gather yourselves together and come against her, And rise up for battle!"
[Jer 49:15 NASB] "For behold, I have made you small among the nations, Despised among men.
[Jer 49:16 NASB] "As for the terror of you, The arrogance of your heart has deceived you, O you who live in the clefts of the rock, Who occupy the height of the hill. Though you make your nest as high as an eagle's, I will bring you down from there," declares the LORD.
[Jer 49:17 NASB] "Edom will become an object of horror; everyone who passes by it will be horrified and will hiss at all its wounds.
[Jer 49:18 NASB] "Like the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah with its neighbors," says the LORD, "no one will live there, nor will a son of man reside in it.
[Jer 49:19 NASB] "Behold, one will come up like a lion from the thickets of the Jordan against a perennially watered pasture; for in an instant I will make him run away from it, and whoever is chosen I shall appoint over it. For who is like Me, and who will summon Me into court? And who then is the shepherd who can stand against Me?"
[Jer 49:20 NASB] Therefore hear the plan of the LORD which He has planned against Edom, and His purposes which He has purposed against the inhabitants of Teman: surely they will drag them off, even the little ones of the flock; surely He will make their pasture desolate because of them.
[Jer 49:21 NASB] The earth has quaked at the noise of their downfall. There is an outcry! The noise of it has been heard at the Red Sea.


[Eze 25:12 NASB] 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Because Edom has acted against the house of Judah by taking vengeance, and has incurred grievous guilt, and avenged themselves upon them,"
[Eze 25:13 NASB] therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "I will also stretch out My hand against Edom and cut off man and beast from it. And I will lay it waste; from Teman even to Dedan they will fall by the sword.
[Eze 25:14 NASB] "I will lay My vengeance on Edom by the hand of My people Israel. Therefore, they will act in Edom according to My anger and according to My wrath; thus they will know My vengeance," declares the Lord GOD.


[Isa 34:5 NASB] For My sword is satiated in heaven, Behold it shall descend for judgment upon Edom And upon the people whom I have devoted to destruction.
[Isa 34:6 NASB] The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, It is sated with fat, with the blood of lambs and goats, With the fat of the kidneys of rams. For the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah And a great slaughter in the land of Edom.
[Isa 34:7 NASB] Wild oxen will also fall with them And young bulls with strong ones; Thus their land will be soaked with blood, And their dust become greasy with fat.
[Isa 34:8 NASB] For the LORD has a day of vengeance, A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
[Isa 34:9 NASB] Its streams will be turned into pitch (TAR/CRUDE OIL), And its loose earth into brimstone (SULFUR), And its land will become burning pitch (TAR/CRUDE OIL).
[Isa 34:10 NASB] It will not be quenched night or day; Its smoke will go up forever. From generation to generation it will be desolate; None will pass through it forever and ever.
[Isa 34:11 NASB] But pelican and hedgehog will possess it, And owl and raven will dwell in it; And He will stretch over it the line of desolation And the plumb line of emptiness.
[Isa 34:12 NASB] Its nobles--there is no one there Whom they may proclaim king-- And all its princes will be nothing.
[Isa 34:13 NASB] Thorns will come up in its fortified towers, Nettles and thistles in its fortified cities; It will also be a haunt of jackals And an abode of ostriches.
[Isa 34:14 NASB] The desert creatures will meet with the wolves, The hairy goat also will cry to its kind; Yes, the night monster will settle there And will find herself a resting place.
[Isa 34:15 NASB] The tree snake will make its nest and lay eggs there, And it will hatch and gather them under its protection. Yes, the hawks will be gathered there, Every one with its kind.
 
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[Oba 1:1 NASB] The vision of Obadiah. Thus says the Lord GOD concerning Edom-- We have heard a report from the LORD, And an envoy has been sent among the nations saying, "Arise and let us go against her for battle"--
[Oba 1:2 NASB] "Behold, I will make you small among the nations; You are greatly despised.
[Oba 1:3 NASB] "The arrogance of your heart has deceived you, You who live in the clefts of the rock, In the loftiness of your dwelling place, Who say in your heart, 'Who will bring me down to earth?'
[Oba 1:4 NASB] "Though you build high like the eagle, Though you set your nest among the stars, From there I will bring you down," declares the LORD.
[Oba 1:5 NASB] "If thieves came to you, If robbers by night-- O how you will be ruined!-- Would they not steal only until they had enough? If grape gatherers came to you, Would they not leave some gleanings?
[Oba 1:6 NASB] "O how Esau will be ransacked, And his hidden treasures searched out!
[Oba 1:7 NASB] "All the men allied with you Will send you forth to the border, And the men at peace with you Will deceive you and overpower you. They who eat your bread Will set an ambush for you. (There is no understanding in him.)
[Oba 1:8 NASB] "Will I not on that day," declares the LORD, "Destroy wise men from Edom And understanding from the mountain of Esau?
[Oba 1:9 NASB] "Then your mighty men will be dismayed, O Teman, So that everyone may be cut off from the mountain of Esau by slaughter.
[Oba 1:10 NASB] "Because of violence to your brother Jacob, You will be covered with shame, And you will be cut off forever.
[Oba 1:11 NASB] "On the day that you stood aloof, On the day that strangers carried off his wealth, And foreigners entered his gate And cast lots for Jerusalem-- You too were as one of them.
[Oba 1:12 NASB] "Do not gloat over your brother's day, The day of his misfortune. And do not rejoice over the sons of Judah In the day of their destruction; Yes, do not boast In the day of their distress.
[Oba 1:13 NASB] "Do not enter the gate of My people In the day of their disaster. Yes, you, do not gloat over their calamity In the day of their disaster. And do not loot their wealth In the day of their disaster.
[Oba 1:14 NASB] "Do not stand at the fork of the road To cut down their fugitives; And do not imprison their survivors In the day of their distress.
[Oba 1:15 NASB] "For the day of the LORD draws near on all the nations. As you have done, it will be done to you. Your dealings will return on your own head.
[Oba 1:16 NASB] "Because just as you drank on My holy mountain, All the nations will drink continually. They will drink and swallow And become as if they had never existed.
[Oba 1:17 NASB] "But on Mount Zion there will be those who escape, And it will be holy. And the house of Jacob will possess their possessions.
[Oba 1:18 NASB] "Then the house of Jacob will be a fire And the house of Joseph a flame; But the house of Esau will be as stubble. And they will set them on fire and consume them, So that there will be no survivor of the house of Esau," For the LORD has spoken.
[Oba 1:19 NASB] Then those of the Negev will possess the mountain of Esau, And those of the Shephelah the Philistine plain; Also, possess the territory of Ephraim and the territory of Samaria, And Benjamin will possess Gilead.
[Oba 1:20 NASB] And the exiles of this host of the sons of Israel, Who are among the Canaanites as far as Zarephath, And the exiles of Jerusalem who are in Sepharad Will possess the cities of the Negev.
[Oba 1:21 NASB] The deliverers will ascend Mount Zion To judge the mountain of Esau, And the kingdom will be the LORD'S.


Jesus warned not to go into the desert to see the False Christ.
[Matt. 24:26] “So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness (DESERT),’ do not go out

Israel worshipped golden calf (crescent/star on head) at Sinai in Arabia:
[Gal 4:22 NASB] For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
[Gal 4:23 NASB] But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
[Gal 4:24 NASB] This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
[Gal 4:25 NASB] Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
[Gal 4:26 NASB] But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.


Dumah = northwest Saudi Arabia near Jordan
Kedar = northwest Saudi Arabia
Seir = northwest Saudi Arabia near Red Sea
Dedan = northwest Saudi Arabia near Medina and Red Sea
Teman = southern Saudi Arabia near Yemen
Mecca – central Saudi Arabia near Red Sea
 
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yeshuasavedme

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[Oba 1:1 NASB] ....


Dumah = northwest Saudi Arabia near Jordan
Kedar = northwest Saudi Arabia
Seir = northwest Saudi Arabia near Red Sea
Dedan = northwest Saudi Arabia near Medina and Red Sea
Teman = southern Saudi Arabia near Yemen
Mecca – central Saudi Arabia near Red Sea
Well, you certainly did a lot of scholarly work on those! Good job!

Walid first opened my eyes to these facts, and I believe God raised him up just for this time, to do so.

Now I understand that the Saudi Arabians consist of -as of old: Edomites -from Esau; Ishmaelites; and several tribes descended from some of the sons of Abraham and Keturah -and all of them intermarrrying over the centuries- make up the populations of Saudi Arabia; and my-oh-my- are they ever in for absolute and total destruction in the time when the LORD, the Messiah, arouses from His place and comes to judge!
 
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TPeterY

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He does not come to fight Russia, but Turkey and the kings of the east -the Medes and Persians, which is a major doctrinal error of western Christianity in not knowing the ancient names and seeing who is lined up against Israel in Ezekiel 38.
Turkey is directly north of Israel, and Turkey has in it the seat of Satan, Pergamos, as Jesus said.

But the Harlot, Mystery Babylon, is in Saudi Arabia, in the desert, and Elam will rise up against her and she will be destroyed in an hour.
But the end is not yet! The Ottoman Empire as the revived 8th king, of the seven of Revelation, will dominate the region and will make a covenant with Israel for the 7 years.

Nice work Yeshuasayedme. Wish I saw this thread much sooner but glad you bumped it up to the first page.

I agree with you on almost everything especially on Mystery Babylon being Saudi Arabia. It makes sense too that God would judge it since it's where the Mecca is and the oil capital of the Islamic world as Jesus come to fight the Islamic nations in the middle east (not the world) that are against Israel.

I already knew all this before before seeing this thread but wanted others that didn't know, this is the correct information. So much western thinking about end time prophecy is so wrong. However, I am slowly seeing over the past 2 years some of the best prophecy preachers in the United States like Chuck Missler and Perry Stone changing their view and making adjustments in what they're learning from guys like Walid Shoebat and Joel Richardson.

And I also agree with you about Russia, I don't think they're the country from the north that will invade Israel. I also think it'll be lead by Turkey from the north. And maybe with a few small Islamic countries in the northern areas.

Also agree on the Kings of the east. It's the Muslim countries just east of Israel, not China (as so much western thinking would believe). The bible states in Rev 9:14-16 concerning "The Sixth Trumpet Judgement."

Revelation 9:14-16 [NKJV]
14) saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15) So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16) Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.


This is the Gog Magog war that Turkey (maybe with allies from the north), Iran, Libya, Sudan/Ethiopia, and if one were to add up the total population of those countries, it's around 300 million. Those countries can field a 200 million army.

The other thing is "Kings of the East" is never mentioned until Rev 16:12, which is "The Sixth Bowl Judgment." Meaning the Kings of the East is not the same as the 200 million army in Rev 9, and can be of any size, but most likely a smaller army since it's not emphasize as a huge army like in Rev 9:16. Remember, there's many Islamic countries just east of Israel.

Just thought I share this with everyone that disagreed and still lost in western eschatology. The bible has always been about Israel and it's surrounding neighbors, not the world or the West. It's the same for Revelation.

To best understand it, you just have to picture yourself as someone living in the middle east during the time of Jesus to get a better understanding of Revelation. When Jesus told His disciples about the end times in Matthew 24, one of the most misunderstood verse is #7.


Matthew 24:7 (NKJV)
"For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places."


The word nation if translated into greek with google translator, it'll say Ethnos. It's referring to ethnic groups that will fight each other.

When translated with an older version, this is what Matthew 24:7 looks like.

Mattityahu 24:7 Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
"For there will be an intifada of ethnic group against ethnic group, and malchut against malchut. There will be famines, earthquakes in place after place."


This is a lot like Sunni Muslims fighting against Shia Muslims you see today.

Famines is actually "Starvation as a Method of Warfare." Link below. And Pestilence is the chemical warfare as is being used in Syria.

Syrian children dying of hunger - CNN.com

You'll also find some misinterpretations in Revelations too with many of the newer translations (versions). And again, this is for everyone to help them seek the truth.
 
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TPeterY said in post 97:

The other thing is "Kings of the East" is never mentioned until Rev 16:12, which is "The Sixth Bowl Judgment." Meaning the Kings of the East is not the same as the 200 million army in Rev 9, and can be of any size, but most likely a smaller army since it's not emphasize as a huge army like in Rev 9:16.

Regarding "the Kings of the East is not the same as the 200 million army", that's right. For Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are chronological, insofar as the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed and out of it will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the world's armies (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3) and reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected or changed church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

TPeterY said in post 97:

Meaning the Kings of the East is not the same as the 200 million army in Rev 9, and can be of any size, but most likely a smaller army since it's not emphasize as a huge army like in Rev 9:16.

Regarding "the Kings of the East is not the same as the 200 million army", that's right also because the former will be human while the latter (like the preceding locust-like beings) will be non-human.

That is, the weird locust-like beings in Revelation 9:7-10, and the subsequent army of 200 million weird horse-like beings in Revelation 9:16-19, could both be literal, and could both be seen by the world as "aliens" or "demons", when in fact they could both be animals which evolved or were miraculously created (at different times) on this planet millions of years ago. The weird locust-like beings are currently living, or are in some state of extended hibernation, in the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:2-3,11), which may have a physical manifestation as a deep underground cavern. The top of this cavern could be deep under the city of Abadan (in Iran), just as the bottomless pit is under the angel Abaddon (Revelation 9:11). The weird locust-like beings will swarm up from the bottomless pit to torment mankind with excruciating stings for 5 months (Revelation 9:2-10). They won't kill anyone, but they will make those they sting want to die, the pain will be so bad (Revelation 9:5-6).

Because the weird horse-like beings will have to come from somewhere, and it could be difficult to keep 200 million of them hidden on the earth, they could currently be living, or be in some state of extended hibernation, in hidden underground bases somewhere away from this planet, such as on the far side of this planet's moon, and/or on the next planet out from the sun (they could even be a source of the mysterious methane emissions which have been detected in places emanating from beneath the 4th planet's surface).

The 200 million literal, weird horse-like beings of the 6th trumpet (Revelation 9:16-19) haven't come upon the earth yet (as is sometimes claimed), for 1/3 of mankind hasn't been killed by them yet (Revelation 9:18).

TPeterY said in post 97:

Remember, there's many Islamic countries just east of Israel.

Are you thinking that Islam will be the world religion under the Antichrist to the end of the tribulation? If so, note that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Islam in its past and current form, insofar as Islam affirms that Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 4:171), whereas the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Islam affirms that Christ is in the flesh, whereas the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Islam affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, whereas the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Islam (mistakenly) affirms that no man can be God, whereas the Antichrist will say that he is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Islam forbids the worship of any images (Koran 21:52, Koran 6:74), whereas the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15). And Islam rejects Lucifer (Satan) as being evil, whereas the Antichrist will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Islam in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-7), the Antichrist and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly-apostate pope), could at first pretend to wholly support Islam in its current form (as well as Christianity), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

TPeterY said in post 97:

Remember, there's many Islamic countries just east of Israel.

The kings of the east could be much farther than "just east" of Israel. For at the 6th vial, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan: Revelation 12:9), and the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together in an attempt to defeat YHWH God (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). And the Euphrates will dry up so that the armies of the kings of the east (Revelation 16:12) (which could be the vast armies of China, India, Pakistan, Japan, Iran, Indonesia) can easily cross the riverbed and gather at the "place" called Armageddon (Revelation 16:16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel). Once they have gathered there, as only a staging area, with all the other armies of the world (Revelation 16:14,16), they won't wage battle there (that is why the Bible doesn't refer to a "battle" of Armageddon). Instead, they will travel south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

At the 7th vial, right before Jesus returns (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), there will be a huge earthquake which will affect the whole world (Revelation 16:18-20), and 100-pound hailstones will pummel the earth (Revelation 16:21). The 7th vial will also be when Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) will be destroyed (Revelation 16:19).
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Nice work Yeshuasayedme. Wish I saw this thread much sooner but glad you bumped it up to the first page.

I agree with you on almost everything especially on Mystery Babylon being Saudi Arabia. It makes sense too that God would judge it since it's where the Mecca is and the oil capital of the Islamic world as Jesus come to fight the Islamic nations in the middle east (not the world) that are against Israel.

I already knew all this before before seeing this thread but wanted others that didn't know, this is the correct information. So much western thinking about end time prophecy is so wrong. However, I am slowly seeing over the past 2 years some of the best prophecy preachers in the United States like Chuck Missler and Perry Stone changing their view and making adjustments in what they're learning from guys like Walid Shoebat and Joel Richardson.

And I also agree with you about Russia, I don't think they're the country from the north that will invade Israel. I also think it'll be lead by Turkey from the north. And maybe with a few small Islamic countries in the northern areas.

Also agree on the Kings of the east. It's the Muslim countries just east of Israel, not China (as so much western thinking would believe). The bible states in Rev 9:14-16 concerning "The Sixth Trumpet Judgement."

Revelation 9:14-16 [NKJV]
14) saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15) So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16) Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.


This is the Gog Magog war that Turkey (maybe with allies from the north), Iran, Libya, Sudan/Ethiopia, and if one were to add up the total population of those countries, it's around 300 million. Those countries can field a 200 million army.

The other thing is "Kings of the East" is never mentioned until Rev 16:12, which is "The Sixth Bowl Judgment." Meaning the Kings of the East is not the same as the 200 million army in Rev 9, and can be of any size, but most likely a smaller army since it's not emphasize as a huge army like in Rev 9:16. Remember, there's many Islamic countries just east of Israel.

Just thought I share this with everyone that disagreed and still lost in western eschatology. The bible has always been about Israel and it's surrounding neighbors, not the world or the West. It's the same for Revelation.

To best understand it, you just have to picture yourself as someone living in the middle east during the time of Jesus to get a better understanding of Revelation. When Jesus told His disciples about the end times in Matthew 24, one of the most misunderstood verse is #7.


Matthew 24:7 (NKJV)
"For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places."


The word nation if translated into greek with google translator, it'll say Ethnos. It's referring to ethnic groups that will fight each other.

When translated with an older version, this is what Matthew 24:7 looks like.

Mattityahu 24:7 Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
"For there will be an intifada of ethnic group against ethnic group, and malchut against malchut. There will be famines, earthquakes in place after place."


This is a lot like Sunni Muslims fighting against Shia Muslims you see today.

Famines is actually "Starvation as a Method of Warfare." Link below. And Pestilence is the chemical warfare as is being used in Syria.

Syrian children dying of hunger - CNN.com

You'll also find some misinterpretations in Revelations too with many of the newer translations (versions). And again, this is for everyone to help them seek the truth.

Thank you for your work and post.

As to the kings of the east, Revelation plays off Enoch [Enoch the prophet the seventh from Adam, as he calls himself in his book, and as Jude, womb brother of Jesus, corroborates], and opens it for the revealing of Messiah, the Son of Man in heaven, whom Enoch said would "be revealed ...and who was formerly hidden in God, and who was God and who was to come"[and is come in flesh, but not returned for every eye to see, yet]. Enoch prophetically named the kings of the east as the Medes and the Persians -amazingly, before there were medes and persians; like Isaiah named Cyrus before he was even born!

Enoch said from the beginning [which Jude quoted from] that his book was for those who would be living in the days of the Great Tribulation [and he also wrote of the rapture before the tribulation, in chapter 50, and that those who witnessed it who repented and believed in the name of the Son of Man would be saved in His name but would not did get the Glory they had witnessed the raptured Saints get -they would go through the tribulation and die as martyrs or live through it to repopulate the earth as the Blessed of YHWH and dwell on earth for the Sabbath Millennial Day...
Anyway, Enoch named the kings of the east as the Parthians and Medes, which is the revived Ottomon Empire head nations, as Walid Shoebat shows from Scripture will happen.


Enoch, Like Revelation, is not in chronological order, but stays with a theme and then goes back and takes you through it from an earlier point to the rest of the happenings.

http://summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htmEnoch 56:5

And in those days the angels shall return


[Daniel 10 -and verse 21, esp -in the original language helps us understand the "binding" as relates to the Persian heavenly prince: the angelic rulers are bound to not cross the Euphrates until the ordained season. They are heavenly rulers/angels/principalities who are stopped [bound to not cross into the Holy land, which is the boundary God gave to Israel forever, and which will be their boundary again after Psalm 83 is fulfilled]

And hurl themselves to the east upon the Parthians and Medes:
They shall stir up the kings, so that a spirit of unrest shall come upon them,
And they shall rouse them from their thrones,

That they may break forth as lions from their lairs,
And as hungry wolves among their flocks.



"The City of My Righteous Shall Be a Hindrance"

6And they shall go up and tread under foot the land of His elect ones,
And the land of His elect ones shall be before them a threshing-floor and a highway:
7But the city of my righteous shall be a hindrance to their horses.
And they shall begin to fight among themselves,


Confusion in the Enemies' Ranks
And their right hand shall be strong against themselves,
And a man shall not know his brother,
Nor a son his father or his mother,
Till there be no number of the corpses through their slaughter,
And their punishment be not in vain.
8In those days Sheol shall open its jaws,
And they shall be swallowed up therein,
And their destruction shall be at an end;
Sheol shall devour the sinners in the presence of the elect."

57 And it came to pass after this that I saw another host of wagons, and men riding thereon, and coming on the winds from the east, and from the west to the south. 2And the noise of their wagons was heard, and when this turmoil took place the holy ones from heaven remarked it, and the pillars of the earth were moved from their place, and the sound thereof was heard from the one end of heaven to the other, in one day. 3And they shall all fall down and worship the Lord of Spirits.
And this is the end of the second Parable.
And then, more from Enoch, on that battle:

The Tribulation Drenched in Blood
100 And in those days in one place the fathers together with their sons shall be smitten
And brothers one with another shall fall in death
Till the streams flow with their blood.
2For a man shall not withhold his hand from slaying his sons and his sons’ sons,
And the sinner shall not withhold his hand from his honoured brother:
From dawn till sunset they shall slay one another.

Blood As High As a Horse's Bridle
3And the horse shall walk up to the breast in the blood of sinners,
And the chariot shall be submerged to its height.

4In those days the angels shall descend into the secret places
And gather together into one place all those who brought down sin,
And the Most High will arise on that day of judgement
To execute great judgement amongst sinners.


Angels Are on Assignment
5And over all the righteous and holy He will appoint guardians from amongst the holy angels
To guard them as the apple of an eye,
Until He makes an end of all wickedness and all sin,
And though the righteous sleep a long sleep, they have nought to fear.
6And then the children of the earth shall see the wise in security,
And shall understand all the words of this book,
And recognize that their riches shall not be able to save them
In the overthrow of their sins.

[the woes]

7Woe to you, Sinners, on the day of strong anguish,
Ye who afflict the righteous and burn them with fire:
Ye shall be requited according to your works.
8Woe to you, ye obstinate of heart,
Who watch in order to devise wickedness:
Therefore shall fear come upon you
And there shall be none to help you.
9Woe to you, ye sinners, on account of the words of your mouth,
And on account of the deeds of your hands which your godlessness has wrought,
In blazing flames burning worse than fire shall ye burn.
[...the woes continue]
Remember this is also in the DSS Scrolls and in the Ethiopian Orthodox canon] and this was written before Revelation -before the flood of Noah, even, but to the skeptic, it is proven to be before Revelation was written; so the same battle in Rev describes the blood coming to the bridle bits of the horses, and the stream of blood's length is told in Revelation.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I'll soon be leaving for Saudi Arabia, may God's Will be done upon that nation.
Amen -and soon!
Go in the power of His Anointing... maybe ask for prayer by the elders at your Church, for divine guidance and protection and wisdom, at least have a core of friends who will keep you lifted in prayer...
come to think of it, we all need that in this nation!
 
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