Saturday Sabbath vs Sunday The Lords Day....GO!

[Saint Steven]

God said He would write His laws in our heart in the New Covenant, he did not say the laws were abolished. It’s the same laws, with different promises. Which laws do you think He wrote in our hearts?

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

As you can see, God’s commandments did not go away...

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Three questions:
1) What time period does "after those days" in Jeremiah thirty-one refer to?
2) Who is the house of Israel?
3) What are the commands of God in Revelation fourteen?

Revelation 14:12 NIV
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

 

[Freth]

So this sums up the SDA gospel? - "Obey all 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) and you will be saved?" That is salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works which is not supported by scripture. (Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..) Do you truly believe that obeying all 10 commandments will be the basis or means by which you will receive eternal life? Have you 'perfectly' obeyed all 10 commandments? What will happen to Christians who understand that the sabbath is a shadow and Christ is the substance (Colossians 2:16-17) and look to Christ for their eternal rest instead of keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law?

You've participated in enough Sabbath threads to know that imge isn't saying this at all.

NOTE: The following is to all thread readers, not Dan specifically.

The grace of God is completely separated from any thing we do (Ephesians 2:8-9), so that God's judgment is just and true, according to the heart of the individual. This means if your heart isn't in it, God can and will remove His gift of grace (Matthew 7:21-23, Revelation 3:14-19).

Iniquity will abound and the love of many will wax cold (Matthew 24:12).

• John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
  
• 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
• 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [And just what is the truth? The word. (below)]
  
• John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Jesus is the bridegroom. You can't have a working marriage without love and commitment to the vows that bind the marriage together.

Matthew 22: The parable likening the kingdom of heaven to that of a king arranging a marriage for his son, we see that those who are invited to the wedding will not come. Instead they make light of the preparation for the wedding and go their own ways, doing their own things. They are not found worthy. So the king sends out his servants to invite people to the wedding, both good and bad. The wedding hall is filled, but the king finds some are not prepared, they are not wearing wedding garments (righteousness) and are cast out into the darkness. The last words of the parable cut to the heart of the matter, "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matthew 25: In the parable of the ten virgins, five wise virgins prepared with oil and trimmed their lamps. Five foolish virgins did not prepare. They asked the five wise virgins for some of their oil, to which they said, "No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go gather to those who sell and buy for yourselves." The five foolish virgins went out to buy oil. "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut." When the five foolish virgins returned, they said, "Lord, Lord, open to us!" But He answered and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you."

Just what is this preparation of oil, this wedding garment?

• Oil is a symbol of anointing, the Holy Spirit. Baptism. The renewal of life in Jesus, by which we receive the Holy Spirit.
  
• Garment is a symbol of righteousness and holiness.

What standard begets righteousness and holiness and shows a renewal of life?

• Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. —Exodus 20:8
• Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? —Romans 6:16
• Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the Lord your God. —Leviticus 20:7
• For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. —2 Peter 2:21
• ...remember all the commandments of the Lord, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring: That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God. —Numbers 15:39-40
• And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. —John 12:15
• Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. —Revelation 22:14

The Bible is chock full of verses telling us to keep the commandments of God, not out of selfishness or to be saved, but as a show of our true love and commitment to our bridegroom. Love for our creator, love for our God. The desire to do His will and not our own. This is the life we're called to, but of our own free will, of a true heart conversion. God knows the difference and Jesus knows the difference. The call is going out to bring Christians to the wedding hall. How many are wearing their wedding garments? How many have their lamps trimmed and with oil? Will the door be closed to you?

Happy Sabbath!

 

[Danthemailman]

You've participated in enough Sabbath threads to know that imge isn't saying this at all.

The grace of God is completely separated from any thing we do (Ephesians 2:8-9), so that God's judgment is just and true, according to the heart of the individual. This means if your heart isn't in it, God can and will remove His gift of grace (Matthew 7:21-23, Revelation 3:14-19).

Iniquity will abound and the love of many will wax cold (Matthew 24:12).

• John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
  
• 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
• 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [And just what is the truth? The word. (below)]
  
• John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Jesus is the bridegroom. You can't have a working marriage without love and commitment to the vows that bind the marriage together.

Matthew 22: The parable likening the kingdom of heaven to that of a king arranging a marriage for his son, we see that those who are invited to the wedding will not come. Instead they make light of the preparation for the wedding and go their own ways, doing their own things. They are not found worthy. So the king sends out his servants to invite people to the wedding, both good and bad. The wedding hall is filled, but the king finds some are not prepared, they are not wearing wedding garments (righteousness) and are cast out into the darkness. The last words of the parable cut to the heart of the matter, "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matthew 25: In the parable of the ten virgins, five wise virgins prepared with oil and trimmed their lamps. Five foolish virgins did not prepare. They asked the five wise virgins for some of their oil, to which they said, "No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go gather to those who sell and buy for yourselves." The five foolish virgins went out to buy oil. "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut." When the five foolish virgins returned, they said, "Lord, Lord, open to us!" But He answered and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you."

Just what is this preparation of oil, this wedding garment?

• Oil is a symbol of anointing, the Holy Spirit. Baptism. The renewal of life in Jesus, by which we receive the Holy Spirit.
  
• Garment is a symbol of righteousness and holiness.

What standard begets righteousness and holiness and shows a renewal of life?

• Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. —Exodus 20:8
• Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? —Romans 6:16
• Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the Lord your God. —Leviticus 20:7
• For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. —2 Peter 2:21
• ...remember all the commandments of the Lord, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring: That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God. —Numbers 15:39-40
• And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. —John 12:15
• Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. —Revelation 22:14

The Bible is chock full of verses telling us to keep the commandments of God, not out of selfishness or to be saved, but as a show of our true love and commitment to our bridegroom. Love for our creator, love for our God. The desire to do His will and not our own. This is the life we're called to, but of our own free will, of a true heart conversion. God knows the difference and Jesus knows the difference. The call is going out to bring Christians to the wedding hall. How many are wearing their wedding garments? How many have their lamps trimmed and with oil? Will the door be closed to you?

I already explained what it means to “keep” (Greek word “tereo”) His commandments. What made you ask me if the door will be closed to me? I hear a lot of sugar coated double talk from SDA’s in regards to the 10 Commandments and salvation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Your signature line reads: "The only scripture spoken and written by the hand of God in the entire Bible is The Ten commandments, now written in our heart in the New Covenant. God asked us to obey all Ten commandments, not just nine. God bless"

There is a contradiction in the Revelation passage and your claim that God wants us to keep the TCs. Where is "sorcery" found in the TCs?

If you are claiming that the commands in the Revelation passage are from the old covenant, then you have expanded the set beyond the TCs. (Ten Commandments) to the full set of 613 commandments of the law.

For that matter, I don't recall the practice of lying being in the TCs. That would be two. Correct me if I am wrong on that. Thanks.

I am not seeing any contradictions. God’s law includes the Ten Commandments, no? He made a special point for the Ten to be on a different foundation. That’s why He personally wrote and spoke them, no other scripture in the entire Bible was written personally by God except the Ten. The 10 was placed inside the ark and in the most holy of holy in the sanctuary, not placed there randomly. They are our moral duty on how to love God- commandments 1-4 and how we are to love each other commandments 5-10.

Exodus 20:16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
This is considered lying.

Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me. If you are practicing sorcery you are breaking God’s first commandment.

Jesus came to magnify God’s laws that are written in our hearts, not do away with. Isaiah 42:21

That’s why it’s still a sin to break any of God’s commandments and it’s stated so in the NT. 1 John 3:4

God bless.

 

[Freth]

I already explained what it means to “keep” (Greek word “tereo”) His commandments. What made you ask me if the door will be closed to me? I hear a lot of sugar coated double talk from SDA’s in regards to the 10 Commandments and salvation.

Sugar coated double talk? Everything I said aligns with the scripture I quoted.

 

[Freth]

I already explained what it means to “keep” (Greek word “tereo”) His commandments. What made you ask me if the door will be closed to me? I hear a lot of sugar coated double talk from SDA’s in regards to the 10 Commandments and salvation.

I quoted you in regards to imge, but I spoke to the thread as a whole. So, no, I was not implying that the door is closed to you. Notice, the question was, "Will the door be closed to you?" It's not a statement of fact, it's a question all of us should be asking ourselves. The questions posed cause readers to think on the points made.

 

[Saint Steven]

I am not seeing any contradictions. God’s law includes the Ten Commandments, no? ...

The law "includes" the TCs?
So, you put yourself under all 613 commandments of the law? Wow.

 

[Saint Steven]

Exodus 20:16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
This is considered lying.

Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me. If you are practicing sorcery you are breaking God’s first commandment.

That's a stretch.
Bearing false witness is a very specific act. Not a general reference to dishonest speech. And sorcery is far removed from a reference to idolatry. Witchcraft specifically. Which is distinct from idolatry. So, your Revelation citation puts you outside the TCs. But I guess you consider yourself to be under all 613 laws, so possibly a moot point for you.

 

[Saint Steven]

The grace of God is completely separated from any thing we do (Ephesians 2:8-9), so that God's judgment is just and true, according to the heart of the individual. This means if your heart isn't in it, God can and will remove His gift of grace (Matthew 7:21-23, Revelation 3:14-19).

This seems half-true.
Are you trying to balance legalism with good intentions? Will that fly in court? How are such things measured?

Were you well-intentioned enough? (who knows?)
Could you have been MORE well-intentioned? (sure)
Was it enough to be saved? (who knows?)

Your scriptures do not prove your point about the heart anyway.

 

[Danthemailman]

I quoted you in regards to imge, but I spoke to the thread as a whole. So, no, I was not implying that the door is closed to you. Notice, the question was, "Will the door be closed to you?" It's not a statement of fact, it's a question all of us should be asking ourselves. The questions posed cause readers to think on the points made.

My faith and trust rests solely in Jesus Christ as the ALL sufficient means of my salvation. Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete the save believers. No supplements necessary. (Romans 3:24-28) Jesus is the door (John 10:9) and we enter ONLY through Him.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The law "includes" the TCs?
So, you put yourself under all 613 commandments of the law? Wow.

I didn’t say that. The ceremonial laws ended with Jesus as our sacrifice. That includes blood sacrifices, feast days, etc. God’s moral laws still stand. It’s still a sin to lie, or steal, murder, worship other god and break His Sabbath etc.

You are free to believe as you wish, obviously, but in my opinion there is a lot at stake. We are saved by God’s grace (His gift) through our faith, but we are judged on our actions according to scriptures. Romans 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 1 Peter 1:17,Psalms 62:12, Revelations 20:12, Proverbs 24:12, Proverbs 11:31 and many more...

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Ecclesiasticus 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all.

Maybe something to consider praying about. God wants to save each and everyone one of us and has asked so little in return. Jesus said if you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15 and even provides the Holy Spirit to help us obey. John 14:16-18. God bless

 

[Freth]

This seems half-true.
Are you trying to balance legalism with good intentions? Will that fly in court? How are such things measured?

Were you well-intentioned enough? (who knows?)
Could you have been MORE well-intentioned? (sure)
Was it enough to be saved? (who knows?)

You scriptures do not prove your point about the heart anyway.

My points about the heart from the previous post.

• The grace of God is completely separated from any thing we do (Ephesians 2:8-9), so that God's judgment is just and true, according to the heart of the individual. This means if your heart isn't in it, God can and will remove His gift of grace (Matthew 7:21-23, Revelation 3:14-19).
• The last words of the parable cut to the heart of the matter, "For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14)
• (a scriptural quote, not my own words) ...remember all the commandments of the Lord, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring: That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God. (Numbers 15:39-40)
• Love for our creator, love for our God. The desire to do His will and not our own. This is the life we're called to, but of our own free will, of a true heart conversion.

Points about the heart, spoken by Jesus.

• Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
  
• Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
  
• Matthew 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things [good works, fruit]: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
• Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
• Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
• Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
• Matthew 15:19 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.
  
• Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

 

[Nathan@work]

This is a sign between God and His people period. The Sabbath started before Jews. Genesis 2:3

The Sabbath was created before the Nation of Israel was born.

The weekly Sabbath started after they were lead out of Egypt.

 

[Nathan@work]

Just the one that God said “REMEMBER” and the day we will worship Him on the New Earth Isaiah 66:23? What you are doing is teaching people to break one of God’s commandments. God has TEN commandments and all Ten were placed in the ark of the covenant in the most holy of holy. The 4th commandment is the only commandment that has the word “Remember” and “holy” in it, but this is the only commandment God now wants us to forget? This is a man-made teaching that breaks one of God’s commandments and is considered a sin. Colossians 2 does not wipe out God’s Sabbath, you have to read the chapter in context, but refusing to look at it truthfully doesn’t change the Sabbath is part of God’s Ten and is our moral duty to God to worship Him on the day He commanded us to. God never separated one of His commandments written in stone, by His own hand from Ten to nine. This is a man-made teaching Jesus warned us about. Mathew 15:8-9

Even the early scholars don’t believe what you are teaching.


This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.
—JOHN WESLEY, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.

Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for us Mark 2:27 27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

God bless and happy Sabbath.

“Teaching” something is different than explaining something already taught.

To teach someone to break a commandment is to instruct them on how to do something against what the commandment says.

God did not command us to ‘worship’ Him on the weekly Sabbath. He did command us to remember the Sabbath day of creation though.

Honestly, if you want to judge someone on what they say you need to look at what your saying. Because your saying someone needs to do something that was not commanded. Israel was to “rest” on the Sabbath. That is not what you are teaching.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Luke writes that the church in Troas was meeting on the first day of the week for the purpose of breaking bread.

Breaking bread means eating a meal , and giving thanks.
This was done most every day, not only on the first day.

 

[JMV]

How am I putting words in your mouth? You continually stress the importance of keeping the sabbath day as a NT Christian as if our life depends on it and you also stressed that breaking a commandment is considered a sin, which includes the 4th commandment. Can you show me where breaking the 4th commandment is a sin for NT Christians under the new covenant? *News flash. *ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)

Thus says the Lord of true repentance...

"11/9/06 From YahuShua HaMashiach, Our Lord and Savior
The Word of The Lord Spoken to Timothy
For Someone Who Asked if They Can Still Serve The Lord as a Pastor
Even Though They Are Homosexual, and For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear

Thus says The Lord to His servant, whom He loves: You seek Me, and this is very good. Yet if you wish to please Me, then you must first become My disciple, a devoted servant who walks in My ways.

My son, I have not forsaken you. If you ask of Me forgiveness, I shall surely forgive you, even for all you have done. Yet to continue in those same sins, for which you had sought forgiveness, is most unpleasant in My sight. For by doing so, you have made My forgiveness of no effect. For that which requires forgiveness is the very same from which you must depart, lest your repentance become unrepentance, crucifying Me again and again in your heart.


For repentance is more than the asking...

It must come from a deep desire to be set free
In My love, followed by a sincere unyielding
Commitment to make your love perfect
Through obedience...

The shedding of the skin of this world,
The crucifying of your old man with his sinful ways...

The putting on of the new man who is
Renewed in the knowledge of The Holy One,
Conforming to the image of Him who created him...

Says The Lord.


My son, there is none righteous in all the world, no, not one.[1] All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.[2] Behold, even Timothy, a man who I have given to hear My voice, does continually stumble. Yet when he is weak, he becomes strong. For My grace is sufficient for him, and My strength is made perfect in his weakness.[3] For he does not cease from coming to Me, laying himself at My feet in repentance, taking full responsibility for his actions, remorseful over those things which yet cause him to stumble, being fully tempted as all men. For I have not yet delivered My people out of temptation; nor has the evil one been bound in the abyss (this time is not yet). Yet from the power of sin, which is death, I have surely delivered you - if you so choose to receive of Me fully, if you so choose to embrace Me as I truly am, if you so choose to remain in My love.[4]
Therefore you know the answer to your question already, for all is written in the Scriptures of Truth. Shall one, who does that which is an abomination in the eyes of God, serve Me? He may not. For as it is written: No one who actively engages in or passively practices homosexuality shall inherit The Kingdom of God.[5] Behold, even all who voice their agreement shall be left outside the gate,[6] says The Lord. Yet if one comes to Me and asks of Me forgiveness, even a continual washing in My own blood, he shall surely have it; even if he comes to Me seven times, or seventy times seven times, he shall be forgiven.[7] For I forgive all those who come to Me in sincerity and in truth, and draw near to those of a contrite heart, delivering those of a humble spirit.


Beloved, by this then
Shall our love be made perfect...

You shall abstain from that which is
Not lawful, and make every effort
To depart from that which is an
Abomination in the eyes of God...

You must strive to be completely separate
From that life, presenting your body
As a living sacrifice to The Lord...

Blameless.


For that which is unnatural is universally known, though the men and women of this world deny it. And that which is against God shall be purged by fire. Even all that offends shall be destroyed and come to a swift end. Therefore, My son, take up your cross and follow Me as I am, and not as you or the churches of men would have Me be. For as it is written: Whoever loves their mother, father, sister, brother, child or close friend, more than Me, is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take up his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. For he who holds onto his life in this world will lose it, yet he who gives up his life for My sake will find it.[8]
So then, do I call you to serve Me? I do, if you are willing to serve Me in all righteousness, without compromise. Do I then require that you be perfect? No. For there is none perfect, save The Holy One of Israel. Rather I require that you strive to be unto Me a servant of pure heart, of pure intention, a disciple who loves Me with all his heart, understanding and strength, and also loves his neighbor as himself.[9] For it is written and remains standing, that one can not be crowned unless they strive lawfully.[10]

My son, I am the fulfillment of The Law, the very goal at which the Torah aims.[11] Thus all those who embrace Me are freed from the curse of The Law, but by no means are they now free to forsake The Law. Rather let The Law be written in your heart, for now you are under grace, and by the power of My own spirit are you now able to keep The Law[12]... Beloved, come to Me and receive! Let Me wash you and make you clean, that you may now arise and walk in My ways.
Therefore again I say to you, serve Me as I am, and not as you would have Me be. Yet turn away unto strange flesh, and I shall also turn away from you, leaving you in the midst of the earth, until you are truly ready to give up your life for My sake.[13] My son, come out from among them and be separate,[14] and I shall give you a cool drink of water, for you are yet thirsty. Hear My words and understand. For My words are life for those who walk in them. And if you walk in them, then you are really My disciple,[15] says The Lord."

Do you want to keep your freedom to sin? Or do you long to obey? Then obey! Be set apart by your obedience. Do you love God? Then love Him, by your faith AND works. Your works, mine or anyone else's for that matter will never reach the perfection of the Messiah's, in this have you spoken rightly, but sin must decrease with the help of His Spirit, His still small voice spoken from within, which i guess you say dwells in you? So again i ask you, obedience or freedom to sin in the name of grace? For thus has the Lord spoken:

"So then, grace is first and everlasting...

Then comes works, the first works done in faith,
Even the firstfruits bore in your lives...

Which is to love The Father and one another,
By keeping The Law...

Says The Lord."

 

[Semper-Fi]

the Sabbath was just given to fleshly Israel to keep, no one else.

These three—

The Bible, calendar and week—are all part of the
oracles committed to the Jews for all mankind.

the Oracles of God

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them were committed [the oracles of God].
Romans 3:2

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you
again which be the first principles of [the oracles of God]; and are become
such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12


If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God]; if any man minister,
let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be
glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever.
Amen. 1 Peter 4:11

But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’

 

[BobRyan]

I hear a lot of sugar coated double talk from SDA’s in regards to the 10 Commandments and salvation.

And what do you hear from

• "The Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19" ,
  
• "The Westminster Confession of Faith - sectn 19"
  
• and "D.L. Moody sermon on the Ten Commandments"

-- on that same topic??

hint: "pretty much the same thing"

 

[ViaCrucis]

That's good. Thanks for your informative and useful posts on this subject.

I don't think I can find the citation, but I had read that when the church still contained some Sabbath-keeping Jews that the day after the Sabbath was a good time to meet with the gentile believers that were not allowed in synagogue. The scriptures were still fresh in the minds of the Jewish believers to share with the gentile fellowship.

I did a quick search and found the general area where I think the citation is found. I will look a little deeper. Articles About the Sabbath | Grace Communion International

I'm getting warmer. (link below) This is found in the fourth paragraph under the heading:
Additional meetings on first day of week
"The Jerusalem church continued to rest on the sabbath and attend Temple or synagogue services, and they also met as Christians in private homes to hear teaching from the apostles and to break bread together.50 The reason for Sunday worship would have been a Christian need for a time of distinctively Christian worship. As Bauckham notes, once we grant that the Jerusalem church had Christian meetings in addition to the Temple or synagogue services, the Jewish Christian observance of the sabbath is not contradictory to Jewish Christian worship on Sunday.51 After the Christians were removed from the synagogues, only these Sunday meetings would be left. As we see in Acts 20:7 (which predates the Jewish Christians being expelled from the synagogues), Luke writes that the church in Troas was meeting on the first day of the week for the purpose of breaking bread." The Origins of Sunday Worship in the Early Church | GCI Archive

This is the generally accepted view, and it makes the most sense with the biblical and historical data we have. While Jewish Christians would have continued to regularly attend the synagogue and Temple, there were distinctive Christian elements that would not have been acceptable or able to be done; namely the celebration of the Lord's Supper, which would require a separate and specifically Christian gathering. Likewise, Gentile converts to Christianity would have needed that same distinctively Christian time for gathering. Doing these things after the Sabbath, on the first day of the week, would have been the most obvious time for this.

As the division between Church and Synagogue continued, the elements of synagogue liturgical practice was retained in Christian worship. So by the time we get to the end of the first century and into the second, we can see that the basic format of Christian worship involved:

Meeting together early in the morning for worship,

"[T]hey were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food." - Pliny the Younger to Emperor Trajan, c. 111-113 AD

At which there were prayers, readings from the Scriptures, a sermon, and the celebration of the Lord's Supper,

St. Justin in his First Apology (which I quoted from in my earlier post), goes into some considerable depth on explaining precisely what goes on at Christian worship gatherings:

"There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to γένοιτο [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.

And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, 'This do in remembrance of Me, this is My body;' and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, 'This is My blood;' and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration." - St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapters 65-67

-CryptoLutheran

 

[HIM]

This is the generally accepted view, and it makes the most sense with the biblical and historical data we have. While Jewish Christians would have continued to regularly attend the synagogue and Temple, there were distinctive Christian elements that would not have been acceptable or able to be done; namely the celebration of the Lord's Supper, which would require a separate and specifically Christian gathering. Likewise, Gentile converts to Christianity would have needed that same distinctively Christian time for gathering. Doing these things after the Sabbath, on the first day of the week, would have been the most obvious time for this.

As the division between Church and Synagogue continued, the elements of synagogue liturgical practice was retained in Christian worship. So by the time we get to the end of the first century and into the second, we can see that the basic format of Christian worship involved:

Meeting together early in the morning for worship,

"[T]hey were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food." - Pliny the Younger to Emperor Trajan, c. 111-113 AD

At which there were prayers, readings from the Scriptures, a sermon, and the celebration of the Lord's Supper,

St. Justin in his First Apology (which I quoted from in my earlier post), goes into some considerable depth on explaining precisely what goes on at Christian worship gatherings:

"There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to γένοιτο [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.

And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, 'This do in remembrance of Me, this is My body;' and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, 'This is My blood;' and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration." - St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapters 65-67

-CryptoLutheran

All of which was preserved by the Church. The one that persecuted and killed millions in the name of God? The Catholic Church.

I will stick with the Bible thanks.