Saturday Is A Special Day

[mark46]

On the 1-year anniversary of Trump's inauguration, the Republican Party is likely to be the first in history to have shut down the government while in control of the House, the Senate and the White House. And this situation would be instead of Trump looking at all the successes including the market, and recent successes on the tax cut, and possible wins on DACA, the wall, and on CHIP. It seems that Trump is grasping defeat from the jaws of victory; if not defeat, then at least diversion.

And why? The primary reason is that McConnell and Ryan don't know what Trump wants or will approve. McConnell's example is DACA. Ryan's example is CHIP. The ONE-MONTH funding of the government included CHIP funding. The WH approved the House proposal and this morning strongly opposed the proposal.

At BEST, the Republicans will pass a one month extension of funding and do all this again in February. Obviously, DACA and CHIP will be campaign issues if they are not dealt with. These are two easy wins for Trump if he wants.

 

[ananda]

On the 1-year anniversary of Trump's inauguration, the Republican Party is likely to be the first in history to have shut down the government while in control of the House, the Senate and the White House.

Sounds like great news to me!

 

[MoonlessNight]

On the 1-year anniversary of Trump's inauguration, the Republican Party is likely to be the first in history to have shut down the government while in control of the House, the Senate and the White House.

Sounds to me like democrats are being quite open about causing the shutdown due to their refusal to negotiate.

Of course, I'm well aware of the standard that whatever happens it's the republicans fault. In Minnesota the same standard applies times ten. We had a bipartisan funding bill pass through our state congress, created in negotiations with the DFL governor, and after it was passed the governor decided that he didn't like what he agreed to in negotiations anyway and cut funding to congress to punish them for not giving him more in the bill. This, obviously, was treated as entirely the fault of the republicans.

 

[mark46]

There is joint blame if a clean CR passes the House and has support of 50 Republicans in the Senate. If not, then the Republicans couldn't successfully negotiate among themselves.

My BOTTOM LINE is that the Republicans COULD have a bill come out of the House, supported by the president, and all the Senate Republicans. However, I don't think that this will happen.

This Republican set of negotiations is so bad that they are only discussing a 1 month extension.
==
Trump cannot have it both ways, no matter how much he tries. He doesn't seem to be able to a free with Republicans on this issue. So, he blames the breakdown of negotiations with Democrats, negotiations that he COULD have on many issues. However, he cannot both agree with the right wing in the House and at the same time with Democrats. That simply doesn't compute.

There are many, many aspects of compromise that would get a majority of the House and Senate if voted upon: DACA, the wall, CHIP, contributions to insurance companies, delay of the Obama taxes, and ultimately immigration reform and infrastructure. HOWEVER, and it is a big however, these deals are not acceptable to the right wing in the House, and may not even have the support of a majority of House members.
=========
PERSONALLY, I am amazed to watch this charade over the past month. Durbin and Graham have become national heroes. The Senate is now a collegial body with Democrats and Republicans working together. They have had many, many negotiations over many issues. they are found that the can indeed come to agreement. There are three obstacles: the president, Miller and the right wing of the House. After the election in November (resulting in a Democratic House majority), the Senate will be even more able to work together. It will then only be the president that must decide what will be accomplished over the 3rd and 4th year of his presidency.

 

[mark46]

There is still no bill for the Senate to vote upon.

PLAN
1) Develop a bill in the House with zero Democratic input.
2) Pass the bill in the House.
3) Bring the bill to the Senate with zero democratic input.
4) Whine and blame the Democrats when they vote against.

Sounds to me like democrats are being quite open about causing the shutdown due to their refusal to negotiate.

Of course, I'm well aware of the standard that whatever happens it's the republicans fault. In Minnesota the same standard applies times ten. We had a bipartisan funding bill pass through our state congress, created in negotiations with the DFL governor, and after it was passed the governor decided that he didn't like what he agreed to in negotiations anyway and cut funding to congress to punish them for not giving him more in the bill. This, obviously, was treated as entirely the fault of the republicans.

 

[Nithavela]

Sounds to me like democrats are being quite open about causing the shutdown due to their refusal to negotiate.

Of course, I'm well aware of the standard that whatever happens it's the republicans fault.

Yeah, they only control the entire government, why should any action or non-action of the government be their fault.

Of course we all know the person who's fault it really is.

Obama!!!!

 

[wing2000]

Shutdowns are another sign that Congress is broken. This is the THIRD extension of the spending bill...a bill that should have been worked out by November at the latest...for the entire year.

Both sides are giving into the extremes:

Trump poisoned the well when he gave into immigration hardliners last week and rejected a bipartisan proposal on dreamers. He stated he would support any agreement...and then broke his word.

The Republican leadership is once again giving into the so called Trump base....we've seen this play before with the so called "Freedom Caucus"

The Democrats are holding the government hostage for DACA.

They ALL need to grow up and govern.

 

[mark46]

To be clear, the House bill does not have the support of 51 Senate Republicans. In other words, if the House bill came to a vote, it would be defeated.

So, the Senate leadership must negotiate with Democrats, WHICH MCDONNELL IS FINE WITH DOING. McConnell's problem is, as he has said twice in the past week, is that he doesn't know what is acceptable to the president. He doesn't want to develop and pass a bill that the president will simply reject.

This situation is about leadership.

And yes, if Democratic votes are needed, especially in the absence of Republican agreement, the Democrats should expect negotiations where each side gets concessions.

With regard to normal pending bills, there hasn't been a real budget since the Clinton administration. However, this month at a time routine is amazing. There is no willingness to sit down a negotiate a deal that lasts past the election (it wouldn't pass the House without major pressure from the president).
====
The REAL fight will come next month when the debt ceiling must be raised in order to pay for actions and laws already approved (paying the bills).

Shutdowns are another sign that Congress is broken. This is the THIRD extension of the spending bill...a bill that should have been worked out by November at the latest...for the entire year.

Both sides are giving into the extremes:

Trump poisoned the well when he gave into immigration hardliners last week and rejected a bipartisan proposal on dreamers. He stated he would support any agreement...and then broke his word.

The Republican leadership is once again giving into the so called Trump base....we've seen this play before with the so called "Freedom Caucus"

The Democrats are holding the government hostage for DACA.

They ALL need to grow up and govern.

 

[Almost there]

On the 1-year anniversary of Trump's inauguration, the Republican Party is likely to be the first in history to have shut down the government while in control of the House, the Senate and the White House. And this situation would be instead of Trump looking at all the successes including the market, and recent successes on the tax cut, and possible wins on DACA, the wall, and on CHIP. It seems that Trump is grasping defeat from the jaws of victory; if not defeat, then at least diversion.

And why? The primary reason is that McConnell and Ryan don't know what Trump wants or will approve. McConnell's example is DACA. Ryan's example is CHIP. The ONE-MONTH funding of the government included CHIP funding. The WH approved the House proposal and this morning strongly opposed the proposal.

At BEST, the Republicans will pass a one month extension of funding and do all this again in February. Obviously, DACA and CHIP will be campaign issues if they are not dealt with. These are two easy wins for Trump if he wants.

Keep in mind that Trump is not really a republican. Trump is fighting the uniparty.

 

[mark46]

Shutdowns are another sign that Congress is broken.

Yes.

Political parties in control have always realized that opening limits and debt ceilings can only be passed through negotiations with the opposition party, with major concessions on both sides. In the last year, Republicans have believed that they can govern without negotiations. And other than a debt ceiling vote or two, that has been the case.

As McCain has said, Republicans have the choice to govern through regular order (fighting and negotiating) or not.

 

[Almost there]

Shutdowns are another sign that Congress is broken. This is the THIRD extension of the spending bill...a bill that should have been worked out by November at the latest...for the entire year.

Both sides are giving into the extremes:

Trump poisoned the well when he gave into immigration hardliners last week and rejected a bipartisan proposal on dreamers. He stated he would support any agreement...and then broke his word.

The Republican leadership is once again giving into the so called Trump base....we've seen this play before with the so called "Freedom Caucus"

The Democrats are holding the government hostage for DACA.

They ALL need to grow up and govern.

What does immigration have to do with the budget?

 

[wing2000]

This situation is about leadership.

That is very clear. Congress was bad enough without the POTUS changing his positions by the hour on twitter....

 

[wing2000]

What does immigration have to do with the budget?

Nothing.

Why can't Congress pass a clean DACA bill that is supported by over 80% of the American public? How long will the GOP bow to the fringe within their own party?

 

[Almost there]

Nothing.

Why can't Congress pass a clean DACA bill that is supported by over 80% of the American public?

I don't know. What does that have to do with the budget?

 

[mark46]

That should have happened in September.

HOWEVER, the Democrats and Republicans who support a DACA fix are willing to have such a bill include funding for a couple of years of the "wall" or whatever border security measures decided by the White House. The levels of funding for 2018 are Republican numbers and could certainly increase. What Democrats will not do is to authorize 10 years of wall funding when the president thinks that it can be done for lots less than the estimates.

BOTTOM LINE
If Trump approved a DACA/wall bill, it would be passed in the Senate, and then the House, in a matter of hours.

And yes, this could be attached to the current CR, but it would be better for DACA to be a separate bill.
========
JUST BY THE WAY
The Republicans can't even agree on funding disaster relief for Texas. I suspect that this will wait for the debt ceiling fight in February.

Nothing.

Why can't Congress pass a clean DACA bill that is supported by over 80% of the American public? How long will the GOP bow to the fringe within their own party?

 

[Almost there]

That should have happened in September.

HOWEVER, the Democrats and Republicans who support a DACA fix are willing to have such a bill include funding for a couple of years of the "wall" or whatever border security measures decided by the White House. The levels of funding for 2018 are Republican numbers and could certainly increase. What Democrats will not do is to authorize 10 years of wall funding when the president thinks that it can be done for lots less than the estimates.

BOTTOM LINE
If Trump approved a DACA/wall bill, it would be passed in the Senate, and then the House, in a matter of hours.

And yes, this could be attached to the current CR, but it would be better for DACA to be a separate bill.
========
JUST BY THE WAY
The Republicans can't even agree on funding disaster relief for Texas. I suspect that this will wait for the debt ceiling fight in February.

Which DACA bill? And what details are good and bad? That's the problem. Saying "pass DACA" Is like saying, "lets buy a new car". Is it a Ford F150? Or a Fiat 500, or a Ferarri, or an Impala, or perhaps a Camry? That's the problem.

 

[mark46]

Which DACA bill? And what details are good and bad? That's the problem. Saying "pass DACA" Is like saying, "lets buy a new car". Is it a Ford F150? Or a Fiat 500, or a Ferarri, or an Impala, or perhaps a Camry? That's the problem.

Yes details of the tradeoff part of suchbill must be agreed upon. The DACA fix is NOT a question for the vast majority of those in Congress. The DACA kids would have their path to citizenship, and their parents would be legal status).

The open question is NOT the DACA fix. The open question is what Trump will insist upon in order to approve a DACA fix,

 

[Vylo]

Sounds to me like democrats are being quite open about causing the shutdown due to their refusal to negotiate.

Of course, I'm well aware of the standard that whatever happens it's the republicans fault. In Minnesota the same standard applies times ten. We had a bipartisan funding bill pass through our state congress, created in negotiations with the DFL governor, and after it was passed the governor decided that he didn't like what he agreed to in negotiations anyway and cut funding to congress to punish them for not giving him more in the bill. This, obviously, was treated as entirely the fault of the republicans.

Actually the democrats have negotiated, but the republicans won't deal, and even having trouble internally. The democrats gave quite a bit to the republicans during negotiations when they were in power. After seeing how they were treated on the other side, they are pushing for some better terms.

 

[mark46]

It appears that the DACA kids will become citizens after this CR is passed.

We shall see what comes of the February negotiations regarding a CR (mid-month) and the the debt limit (onto end).

Remember that the Republicans cannot get debt limit legislation passed in the House. Many of their own will vote against unless all the increase is for military spending. So, again, Republicans will be forced to negotiate with Democrats (actually twice, although there will likely be a deal that covers both a new CR that goes past the election and a debt limit that does the same).

For those who think that this is all terrible, I disagree. Our system has many problems. It is still OUR system. And yes, our economy and future is in better shape than ever!

 

[Almost there]

Yes details of the tradeoff part of suchbill must be agreed upon. The DACA fix is NOT a question for the vast majority of those in Congress. The DACA kids would have their path to citizenship, and their parents would be legal status).

The open question is NOT the DACA fix. The open question is what Trump will insist upon in order to approve a DACA fix,

But right now we are working on a budget bill. It is a different thing.