satan's Xmas treat
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We are on the threshold of The great and terrible day of the Lord. Horrendous judgments are on their way, and in fact, have already begun. Just sitting up straight and looking at the escalating natural calamities should be enough to open our eyes. If we only viewed the scene of tornados, wed have to know something strange is happening. There have been over 250 of them just in the past year that have caused terrible damage. How about the earthquakes, floods, and hurricanes? The cost has staggered into the billions of dollars, as well as costing many their lives. Nature has begun its travail under the stress of sin, and this earth has turned into a raging planet. We who have not had such calamities touch us personally, just continue on like nothing has changed, glibly ignoring what is happening as we are so entrenched in our smug ways. How many professing "Christians" have already been affected, proving thoroughly that we are NOT automatically protected?
Judgments are decided by the Law of Yahweh. No judge can judge anything, or anyone, except by a set of Laws. Yahweh judges by HIS Law, NOT by ours, or by our self justifying rules and regulations. That comes from the fallen nature, the carnality of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. If we intend to escape the judgments that have already begun, then we are going to have to come out of the wickedness that is being judged. I.e. Come out of her my people, or her plagues will come upon you too. We cannot remain in participation with that which is being judged and expect to be protected from those judgments. We are guilty by association, even if we are among those who claim to be saved. I full well realize this will bring howls from many, but it is still the truth, even if all howl against it. Yeshua knew what this day would be like, and did not say, Pray always that you be accounted worthy to escape all of these things for nothing. He is certainly warning us clearly in this day, and those who have ears to hear had better sit up and HEAR HIM!!!
There is a misconception that says the Law of Yahweh produces bondage. Is that Truth??? Since when does anything of Yahweh produce bondage??? Yeshua was the perfection of the Law in action. Was He in bondage??? The stupidities that are preached today as Truth are beyond incredible.
Patrick
Judgments are decided by the Law of Yahweh. No judge can judge anything, or anyone, except by a set of Laws. Yahweh judges by HIS Law, NOT by ours, or by our self justifying rules and regulations. That comes from the fallen nature, the carnality of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. If we intend to escape the judgments that have already begun, then we are going to have to come out of the wickedness that is being judged. I.e. Come out of her my people, or her plagues will come upon you too. We cannot remain in participation with that which is being judged and expect to be protected from those judgments. We are guilty by association, even if we are among those who claim to be saved. I full well realize this will bring howls from many, but it is still the truth, even if all howl against it. Yeshua knew what this day would be like, and did not say, Pray always that you be accounted worthy to escape all of these things for nothing. He is certainly warning us clearly in this day, and those who have ears to hear had better sit up and HEAR HIM!!!
There is a misconception that says the Law of Yahweh produces bondage. Is that Truth??? Since when does anything of Yahweh produce bondage??? Yeshua was the perfection of the Law in action. Was He in bondage??? The stupidities that are preached today as Truth are beyond incredible.
Patrick
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The Great thing about serving Gos is that we (as believers in Christ) have already been judged and found to be innocent because of the Blood of the Lamb. Not only that, but we have a advocate who will plead our case before the Lord. His Name is Jesus the Christ.
Z
Z
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LouisBooth
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I'm assuming you mean God Z..you misspelled it 
Yes, we are free from keeping the law, but we should keep it naturally if we are christians so this whole point is kinda of moot....we are not required to though....if we were then none of us would be christians.
Yes, we are free from keeping the law, but we should keep it naturally if we are christians so this whole point is kinda of moot....we are not required to though....if we were then none of us would be christians.
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GreenEyedLady
My little Dinky Doo
Funny RWC...everytime you type in a website, the letters WWW in the bible are 666. Looks like your using satans tools also! (check psalms 118)
LOL
GEL
LOL
GEL
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- Feb 18, 2002
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{see original posting at top of list]
Gluttony
and greed are not celebrations of Christ, they are SIN, and are especially insulting to my God when other people on the earth starve to death on Xmas day [some 20,000 odd, many of whom are tiny kids ] and the world has desparate needs, but most people who receive 'presents' don't even need them . This is not what Christ taught us to do.
Also how would you appreciate a paganistic [tree and fairie in hand] gluttonous man 'celebrating' your date of birth on the wrong day{!}
when your Father never told him to do any such celebration in the first place [and in fact spoke against Babylonian traditions such as giving presents to gain favour and keeping astrological dates such as date of birth]and then saying it was sin done for Christ.
Go sit in a field in the Holy Land in winter and you too will see why shepherds and sheep are all INSIDE, NOT in the fields ...Jesus was not even born in winter.
Gluttony
and greed are not celebrations of Christ, they are SIN, and are especially insulting to my God when other people on the earth starve to death on Xmas day [some 20,000 odd, many of whom are tiny kids ] and the world has desparate needs, but most people who receive 'presents' don't even need them . This is not what Christ taught us to do.Also how would you appreciate a paganistic [tree and fairie in hand] gluttonous man 'celebrating' your date of birth on the wrong day{!}
when your Father never told him to do any such celebration in the first place [and in fact spoke against Babylonian traditions such as giving presents to gain favour and keeping astrological dates such as date of birth]and then saying it was sin done for Christ. Go sit in a field in the Holy Land in winter and you too will see why shepherds and sheep are all INSIDE, NOT in the fields ...Jesus was not even born in winter.
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LouisBooth
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"Gluttony and greed are not celebrations of Christ, they are SIN, "
I agree. That's not what christmas is about either.
"gluttonous man 'celebrating' your date of birth "
most holiday's are not held on the true date. If you have kids, most of the time you celebrate with a party on the weekend closest to their birthday. Its not wrong as long as the spirit of the ritual is kept. Santa? glutous? What makes you draw that assumption? Because he is "plump"? Have you ever read the bible? Jesus was most probably born in sept, but that really doesn't make a difference to me when celebrating Christmas. I am celebrating the event, not the exact date.
I agree. That's not what christmas is about either.
"gluttonous man 'celebrating' your date of birth "
most holiday's are not held on the true date. If you have kids, most of the time you celebrate with a party on the weekend closest to their birthday. Its not wrong as long as the spirit of the ritual is kept. Santa? glutous? What makes you draw that assumption? Because he is "plump"? Have you ever read the bible? Jesus was most probably born in sept, but that really doesn't make a difference to me when celebrating Christmas. I am celebrating the event, not the exact date.
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- Feb 18, 2002
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Dear Zamar,
Are you really saying that you see no sin or offence to God and Christ in these? :-
Greed where there is paucity,
gluttony where there is starvation,
giving where there is no need
and ignoring need elsewhere ,
rampant commercialism, mammon
pagan rituals to a fertility god,
Are you really saying that you see no sin or offence to God and Christ in these? :-
Greed where there is paucity,
gluttony where there is starvation,
giving where there is no need
and ignoring need elsewhere ,
rampant commercialism, mammon
pagan rituals to a fertility god,
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I cannot believe that thread, and way of thinking, actually exists. It literally makes me ill. SO WHAT, we celebrate the birth of Christ and now we are pagans who submit to gluttony, greed, etc. A little word of advice; DON'T presume to know my heart!!
You know what...I REFUSE to even have this conversation any more. This makes me sick!!!
You know what...I REFUSE to even have this conversation any more. This makes me sick!!!
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LouisBooth
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"Greed where there is paucity,
gluttony where there is starvation,
giving where there is no need
and ignoring need elsewhere ,
rampant commercialism, mammon
pagan rituals to a fertility god,"
1. No christian I know does any type of ritual to a fertility god. I think you're pulling things out of thin air. 2. You've never been out at christmas have you? Even nonchristians try to put aside their differences for a few days. Its called, "the Spirit" of christimas. In terms of the other things you stated, they are just dramatic and not in the least way reality.
gluttony where there is starvation,
giving where there is no need
and ignoring need elsewhere ,
rampant commercialism, mammon
pagan rituals to a fertility god,"
1. No christian I know does any type of ritual to a fertility god. I think you're pulling things out of thin air. 2. You've never been out at christmas have you? Even nonchristians try to put aside their differences for a few days. Its called, "the Spirit" of christimas. In terms of the other things you stated, they are just dramatic and not in the least way reality.
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rwc109 asks us to "read what the bible says about astrology and giving presents!"
Hmmm, that leaves out Matthew and Luke's birth narratives, doesn't it? Of course literalists can always stand firm: the Scripture doesn't really say the infant or his parents ever opened the three gifts!
And the "wise men" were only "wise guys"--right? And the star in the East was really, uh, Brad Pitt???
Perhaps someone should form another Protestant sect and get this matter straightened out once and for all. We have about 350 denominations at last count and the number is anything but stable....
Hmmm, that leaves out Matthew and Luke's birth narratives, doesn't it? Of course literalists can always stand firm: the Scripture doesn't really say the infant or his parents ever opened the three gifts!
And the "wise men" were only "wise guys"--right? And the star in the East was really, uh, Brad Pitt???
Perhaps someone should form another Protestant sect and get this matter straightened out once and for all. We have about 350 denominations at last count and the number is anything but stable....
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Lets assume that your interpretation is right....Christmas is a pagan holiday that has nothing to do with Jesus.
Hmmm. I would say that the Lord can redeem anything....that which was meant for evil God can redeem for GOOD. Christmas offers up a time for christians to point a sin sick weary world to Christ in a way that most non christians will be able to hear. It gives us a time to reflect more attention and thought to the great gift God gave us in His Son, Jesus.
To address your issues:
"Greed where there is paucity,
gluttony where there is starvation,
giving where there is no need
and ignoring need elsewhere ,
rampant commercialism, mammon
pagan rituals to a fertility god,"
Greed is a matter of heart. You can not presume to know someone's heart. Many people give in abundance at Christmas and other times throughout the year. There is no sin in gift giving. The sin is when someone lusts, covets, or nurtures greed. It doesn't take a holiday for people to do that. Check out the sunday ads.
Gluttony is also a matter of heart. Our Christmas meal is oftentimes the same as any other Sunday meal. Thanksgiving is more a holiday about overeating than Christmas...but it is not a law that one must over indulge. Again, gluttony is not confined to one or two specific holidays. The jewish high holy days and feast days were celebrated by eating, drinking, and celebrating and you advocate them.....celebration is not a sin. God tells us to celebrate. In as far as ignoring needs, we as a family do not, and I am sure there are more that do not than that do. We assist with the soup kitchen, we give to charities, we send monies overseas to missionaries and charities that work with the children that have nothing. And we do it 365 days a year. I suppose I am guilty to an extent to giving gifts where there is no need, as very few of us have any REAL needs. We are a very blessed country in the US, so perhaps it is now a sin to live in a country that is blessed with such abundance?? Gift giving in the bible WAS done as a way to show honor, respect, and love to another person. There is nothing wrong with giving gifts.
The rampant commercialism is a problem. We attempt to stay away from it as much as possible, and give many homemade gifts, or practical gifts as possible. I will concede on the point that Christmas has become overcommercialized.
I believe if you look for evil you will find evil. If you look for good, you will find good. You talk about pagan symbols of trees, evergreens, lights. We talk about how the tree represents the cross that Christ came to die on for our sins. We talk about how the evergreen represents everlasting life, and the circle of the wreath talks of eternity. We discuss the lights that we see as being the Light of Christ, and how we are to be the light of the world. We try to honor Christ in all that we do during the holidays, ( as at all times) and to that end, we step up our giving as much as we are able to give to our neighbors who do have needs.
You presume that everyone blindly follows Christmas as prescribed by the world. I would like to submit to you that some (maybe most) celebrate Christ's birth, His gift, and His sacrifice for His children.
Its all about your heart. Where is our heart in any given matter??
Anyway, my 2c.
Blessings,
Tammy
Hmmm. I would say that the Lord can redeem anything....that which was meant for evil God can redeem for GOOD. Christmas offers up a time for christians to point a sin sick weary world to Christ in a way that most non christians will be able to hear. It gives us a time to reflect more attention and thought to the great gift God gave us in His Son, Jesus.
To address your issues:
"Greed where there is paucity,
gluttony where there is starvation,
giving where there is no need
and ignoring need elsewhere ,
rampant commercialism, mammon
pagan rituals to a fertility god,"
Greed is a matter of heart. You can not presume to know someone's heart. Many people give in abundance at Christmas and other times throughout the year. There is no sin in gift giving. The sin is when someone lusts, covets, or nurtures greed. It doesn't take a holiday for people to do that. Check out the sunday ads.
Gluttony is also a matter of heart. Our Christmas meal is oftentimes the same as any other Sunday meal. Thanksgiving is more a holiday about overeating than Christmas...but it is not a law that one must over indulge. Again, gluttony is not confined to one or two specific holidays. The jewish high holy days and feast days were celebrated by eating, drinking, and celebrating and you advocate them.....celebration is not a sin. God tells us to celebrate. In as far as ignoring needs, we as a family do not, and I am sure there are more that do not than that do. We assist with the soup kitchen, we give to charities, we send monies overseas to missionaries and charities that work with the children that have nothing. And we do it 365 days a year. I suppose I am guilty to an extent to giving gifts where there is no need, as very few of us have any REAL needs. We are a very blessed country in the US, so perhaps it is now a sin to live in a country that is blessed with such abundance?? Gift giving in the bible WAS done as a way to show honor, respect, and love to another person. There is nothing wrong with giving gifts.
The rampant commercialism is a problem. We attempt to stay away from it as much as possible, and give many homemade gifts, or practical gifts as possible. I will concede on the point that Christmas has become overcommercialized.
I believe if you look for evil you will find evil. If you look for good, you will find good. You talk about pagan symbols of trees, evergreens, lights. We talk about how the tree represents the cross that Christ came to die on for our sins. We talk about how the evergreen represents everlasting life, and the circle of the wreath talks of eternity. We discuss the lights that we see as being the Light of Christ, and how we are to be the light of the world. We try to honor Christ in all that we do during the holidays, ( as at all times) and to that end, we step up our giving as much as we are able to give to our neighbors who do have needs.
You presume that everyone blindly follows Christmas as prescribed by the world. I would like to submit to you that some (maybe most) celebrate Christ's birth, His gift, and His sacrifice for His children.
Its all about your heart. Where is our heart in any given matter??
Anyway, my 2c.
Blessings,
Tammy
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- Feb 18, 2002
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I am wondering how many [or is that how few] celebrated the Feast of Unleavened Bread last night as Christ said we might do in remembrance of him [if we are worthy to follow him]
Or how many do not even know what it is and when it is?
My point is really the same as anbout Xmas that the holy days PROCLAIMED by God have been lost by the apostate churches of man and repalced by pagan celebrations... I bet many will not even think twice that easter denies that Christ kept the sign of Jonas as he promised ...and that it is really the celebvration of a pagan fertility goddess [hence the pagan-style eggs!...what has this to do with Christ or the Bible? and why do so few care when Jesus is made out a liar and fraud by their celebration that is supposed to be in memory of Him ??!]
Or how many do not even know what it is and when it is?
My point is really the same as anbout Xmas that the holy days PROCLAIMED by God have been lost by the apostate churches of man and repalced by pagan celebrations... I bet many will not even think twice that easter denies that Christ kept the sign of Jonas as he promised ...and that it is really the celebvration of a pagan fertility goddess [hence the pagan-style eggs!...what has this to do with Christ or the Bible? and why do so few care when Jesus is made out a liar and fraud by their celebration that is supposed to be in memory of Him ??!]
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LouisBooth
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"I am wondering how many [or is that how few] celebrated the Feast of Unleavened Bread last night as Christ said we might do in remembrance of him [if we are worthy to follow him]
"
If you're going to take that view, then you better have worn the same clothes, traveled over to Israel to do it and sat on the floor. If not, they you're not doing it right
The problme rwc is that you're attacking a ritual with no meaing, which is worthless, I agree. But the rituals of christmas (celebrating the event of Christ's birth) and easter (celebrating his death and ressurection) do have meaning to the christians that celebrate it and it is not wrong to do so because it is a meaningful event.
"
If you're going to take that view, then you better have worn the same clothes, traveled over to Israel to do it and sat on the floor. If not, they you're not doing it right
The problme rwc is that you're attacking a ritual with no meaing, which is worthless, I agree. But the rituals of christmas (celebrating the event of Christ's birth) and easter (celebrating his death and ressurection) do have meaning to the christians that celebrate it and it is not wrong to do so because it is a meaningful event.
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I found a reference to druids burning an Xmas-type tree on hill-tops at mid-winter to make the sun start returning back to its higher place in the sky for the spring and summer.... that is the earliest reference to the spirit in evergreens I have yet found.... this Xmas thing goes deep into paganism but has nothing at all to do with Christ or following him, as the Bible clearly shows [God would have had an ancient sabbath pointing forwatd to Jesus' birth as He did for his death (Passover) if it were meant to be a Holy celebration...but He didn't!]
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LouisBooth
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The celebration of Christ was ment to replace that holiday. So why not let it replace it? Hmm? I think we are called to take out the bad and replace it with good aren't we?
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Zamar, are you saying that you find no sin in all those things I mentioned that go on at Xmas?
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My point was that we cannot celebrate Jesus' birth because we do not know when it was [except that the shepherds being in the fields indicates it was spring, not winter as shepherds stay out only (appropriately!) at lambing time, their sheep and goats are housed during the bitter Holy Land winter and you wouldn't catch them sitting around in the freezing cold then!]
Next I indicated that the reason for not knowing when it is IS significant, we are NOT MEANT to celebrate Jesus' birth, the Bible never told anyone to do such a thing, Jesus and his Jewish followers never dreamt of following such a pagan Babylonian tradition and NEITHER SHOULD WE!
If God wanted us to celebrate Jesus birth in memory then He would have told us to and WHEN to do it!
Jesus DEATH however was prophesied in PASSOVER and God did tell us to keep that and Jesus told us to keep it in his memeory if we are WORTHY... most people DO NOT keep PASSOVER however which is an ANNUAL celebration laid down under Hebrew rules in the Bible [ and is thus on a Hebrew day and holy, inviolate, to God] ..instead we have Eucharits and Easter neither of which is holy in the Bible [it does not even mention them!... (apart from a mis-translation of passover in one place only)]
Thus the 'christian' churches keep festivals that are not in the Bible and don't keep the holy ones that are in the Bible.... we cannot help thinking that there must be a REASON!... when the Romans were slaughtering the original followers of Christ, the apostollic 'church' they needed some way to isolate anyone following it, so they CHANGED ALL the festivals and holy sabbaths so as to ISOLATE followers of Christ FROM their new 'christianity' religion... ALL was changed by decree of a man ,the ROMAN EMPEROR from what was holy to God.... ad that tradition was established down the ages simply because the Roman Empire was the DOMINANT force of man in the world of men at that time and they backed it up by slaughtering anyone who disagreed.... this is the ROOT of the 'christianity' so many follow, not the Biblical Christ oor the one witnessed by the spirit of truth [which teaching has also vanished from the 'churches' because it removes the false authority of man over churches... all men are equal before God and He is our only father, priest, rabbi, mentor, master... the sprit of truth is available to all men through Jesus Christ, we ned no other teacher... certainly we do not need Xmas with its indulgence of sin.
Next I indicated that the reason for not knowing when it is IS significant, we are NOT MEANT to celebrate Jesus' birth, the Bible never told anyone to do such a thing, Jesus and his Jewish followers never dreamt of following such a pagan Babylonian tradition and NEITHER SHOULD WE!
If God wanted us to celebrate Jesus birth in memory then He would have told us to and WHEN to do it!
Jesus DEATH however was prophesied in PASSOVER and God did tell us to keep that and Jesus told us to keep it in his memeory if we are WORTHY... most people DO NOT keep PASSOVER however which is an ANNUAL celebration laid down under Hebrew rules in the Bible [ and is thus on a Hebrew day and holy, inviolate, to God] ..instead we have Eucharits and Easter neither of which is holy in the Bible [it does not even mention them!... (apart from a mis-translation of passover in one place only)]
Thus the 'christian' churches keep festivals that are not in the Bible and don't keep the holy ones that are in the Bible.... we cannot help thinking that there must be a REASON!... when the Romans were slaughtering the original followers of Christ, the apostollic 'church' they needed some way to isolate anyone following it, so they CHANGED ALL the festivals and holy sabbaths so as to ISOLATE followers of Christ FROM their new 'christianity' religion... ALL was changed by decree of a man ,the ROMAN EMPEROR from what was holy to God.... ad that tradition was established down the ages simply because the Roman Empire was the DOMINANT force of man in the world of men at that time and they backed it up by slaughtering anyone who disagreed.... this is the ROOT of the 'christianity' so many follow, not the Biblical Christ oor the one witnessed by the spirit of truth [which teaching has also vanished from the 'churches' because it removes the false authority of man over churches... all men are equal before God and He is our only father, priest, rabbi, mentor, master... the sprit of truth is available to all men through Jesus Christ, we ned no other teacher... certainly we do not need Xmas with its indulgence of sin.
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And you've read how many books on early medieval Anglosaxon and Celtic religious practices?
Actually, I believe evergreens were used for celebration more along the lines of welcoming the return of the sun in its greatest brilliance. If I am correct, they worshipped the sun; they did not "make" it return to its spring/summer zenith.
What's wrong with celebrating life symbolically through the return of spring?
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