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Satan's influence?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by soulsisterclaire, Feb 28, 2002.

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  1. soulsisterclaire

    soulsisterclaire JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME

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    In a thread about whether or not one could lose their salvation I had a few questions that came to my mind.

    It seems that Bible verses can be used to support a view that you can lose it and some seem to support that you can not lose your salvation. So I thought I would start a new thread on the following topic:

    Could Satan have influenced anybody to write the way they did in the Bible? Or could he have influenced how it was translated from the original written transcripts?

    I really don't want to believe that God would allow Satan to have that much influence over His Word. But then I think, well he did give us free will, and man messes up constantly so maybe it is possible?
     
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  2. zamar

    zamar Member

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    Are there any passages that you are concerned about?

    Z
     
  3. Da Berkshire Massive

    Da Berkshire Massive New Member

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    NO!!!!!!!

    The bible is the ONE thing God would NOT allow Satan to mess with!
    However Satan does influence bad/inaccurate translations and often how the bible is interpreted and preached.
     
  4. soulsisterclaire

    soulsisterclaire JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME

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    No I am not worried about any passages, just that there are passages to support the theory that "once saved always saved" and the theory that you can lose your salvation by continuing in sin after you have been saved. See this link for further info:
    http://www.epm.org/security.html

    Long article, but interesting.

    My real question is not about whether or not you can lose salvation, but if maybe Satan had any influence over man either writing or translating the Bible to look as if you could lose your salvation to discourage those saved. Am I making sense?

    Here is a verse that seems to say that you can lose your salvation:
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    Matthew 7:19-23 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"
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    And this one especially scares me because I have backslid before:
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    Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Does this mean I have lost my salvation? My point is: Could Satan have made the them write this in such a way to confuse man about his salvation? Is it possible? Or do you think that God would not allow Satan to taint the Bible in anyway?
     
  5. soulsisterclaire

    soulsisterclaire JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME

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    Da Berkshire Massive:

    I agree, the interpretation of the Bible is maligned a lot and preached in all sorts of odd ways, I can usually tell when it is wrong. But...

    Are you saying that Satan can make the Bible translations wrong? I mean different than the original? If so, how can we chose the correct translation? Is King James the most accurate or what?

    What translations do you feel might be the most alike God's intended message?
     
  6. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    I don't think God would allow satan to influence His written word. But I do believe he will twist it to condemn us. A perfect example was when Jesus was tempted.
    The first verse you gave I believe is referring to people who have not truly been born again.
    The Hebrews verses is I believe referring to Hebrew Christians who were being heavily persecuted and were wanting to return to the old covenant, in which there no longer remains a sacrifice. Someone also pointed out that it says repentance, not salvation.

    I think there will be many Christians who will not receive any reward, yet will be saved as by fire, as Paul wrote.
    I believe in eternal security, yet I believe as long as we abide in Christ we have nothing to worry about.

    Satan walks around like a roaring lion seeking to devour us and what better way to make us ineffective and weak to make us worry about things like our salvation. I think like Peter, he wants to sift us as wheat too. Spiritual warfare is very real and Ephesians 6 shows the reality of it and shows how to deal with it. The word of God is our sword and faith our shield, our two most important pieces of armor.
     
  7. soulsisterclaire

    soulsisterclaire JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME

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    "...Satan walks around like a roaring lion seeking to devour us and what better way to make us ineffective and weak to make us worry about things like our salvation..."
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Good point Mandy!
     
  8. Da Berkshire Massive

    Da Berkshire Massive New Member

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    Its, true that SOME translations are inaccurate, sometimes scripture is translated in a way that suits the beliefs of those translating it.
    At our church we use the NIV- though the Pastor will always point out any discrepancies in the translation and refer to a better translation in another version.

    The King James Version though, despite being the favourite of many for its beautiful language has been found to be full of errors and inaccuracies.
     
  9. Da Berkshire Massive

    Da Berkshire Massive New Member

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  10. zamar

    zamar Member

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    All of this discussion on OSAS or loosing your salvation. It is all wasted breath. If you Love God and are seeking His face, if you are in the word and sharing your faith with others you have nothing to fear.

    If you pray and are leading others to the Lord, why wonder?

    We should be doing what Jesus commanded. Preach the Gospel to all creatures.

    Z
     
  11. denman98

    denman98 New Member

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    Don't forget Romans 8:37-39

    Nay in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor pricipalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
    Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to seperate us from the love of God, which is in Jesus Christ our Lord.
     
  12. Da Berkshire Massive

    Da Berkshire Massive New Member

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    I have actually looked up all of these verses which are taken by many to go against OSAS- to be honest, there is not a single one which cannot be easily interpreted as backing up OSAS- here are some I discussed on another forum site:

    Jude v5- reference to those who into the full witness of the Holy Spirit, refuse to enter God's rest, despite God pleading with them to do so.
    Eventually when God cannot do anything to persuade that person to accept his gift of grace, he cuts them off- they commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
    Revelation 3 v5 God has the power to enable his children to overcome. This is a promise that he will never blot their names out of the book of life.
    Phillippians 2 v12 I believe this is talking about serving and living in REVERENCE do God. If we are truly God's children, we have nothing to be afraid about- but nevertheless God demands our respect- to 'fear' God. You would tremble before God if you were a true Christian not in fear, but in total awe and respect.
    The assistant pastor at my church on Sunday, was talking about people having to leave churches during the revivals of the 19th and early 20th centuries, because the presence of God was so strong and powerful, it too much for them to bear, even though they were saved.
    Hebrews verse- talking about false Christians who knew the truth have had the full witness of the Holy Spirit in their lives to such an extent they have outwardly reformed their lives, but choose to reject Christ and commit willful apostasy anyway thus they are crucifying Jesus all over again and their open rejection of him is putting him in public disgrace. They are betraying him deliberately knowing who Jesus is as Judas did.
    John 15- talking about those who are not truly God's children and fall away/ do not remain in Jesus and so are thrown into the fire.
    A true Christian will always remain in Christ even if they fall away for a time, sometimes many years.
    2 Peter Ch2 v20.
    This is the most contradictory verse to OSAS I know of. I believe it is talking about those who knew the gospel the TRUTH had the full witness of the Holy Spirit in their lives, followed Jesus for a time- therefore 'knew' him, but Jesus never knew THEM.
    Because they fall away and become a son/daughter of perdition, they are worse of in the end than they were before when they did not know the truth but still had the chance to be saved.
    Sadly I know of people who are now worse off in this life, let alone for eternity, since they fell away and committed wilful deliberate apostasy against Jesus.
    I would say the most scary verse on this is Luke 12 v 46- though I believe this is refering to those who believe the gospel but refuse to become Christians and sin how they please, believing that they won't die or that Jesus is not going to come back- I believe this is a warning against refusing to accept Christ as Lord and Saviour immediately by putting it off and assuming that nothing can happen to you, or that Christ won't return until you do decide to become a Christian.
    I also think that we can interpret the verses about, standing firm/enduring to the end and overcoming as actually describing who is a true Christian and who isn't. Whether someone continues in or returns to their faith in Jesus or not is a sign of whether they are truly God's children or not and whether God is keeping them faithful to the end through his power and NOT as a result of their own abilities to remain faithful. If we had to endure to the end in our own strength, don't people think that Satan wouldn't make sure that NO ONE made it? He is far more powerful than WE are if it is ultimately our responsibility to remain faithful, abstain from sin and endure to the end through overcoming. How could ANY of us endure to the end/overcome were it not for the fact that the ONE who is in us is greater and stronger than the god of this world?!
    So I believe by such verses, the bible is talking about the signs which accompany a genuine christian -whether or not they remain faithful/endure to end and overcome is a sign of the genuineness of their conversion and whether or not God is really at work in them.
    I think these verses are also there so we can make sure that we are genuine Christians, if we find ourselves beginning to fall away from our faith or fall into a life of deliberate sin, then this is a call to make our election sure, by making certain that we have genuinely trusted in Christ alone for our salvation and forgiveness of all our sins and that the Holy Spirit is really there to work in our hearts and keep us from falling.
    "The only verse though Ruht that I cannot explain in a OSAS context though is Ezekiel 18 v24: But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things that the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guity of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
    Does this mean in a OSAS context that if a Christian continues to deliberately sin despite God trying to bring them back, they will die physically to bring an end to their Godless lifestyle, but not lose their salvation, or is it talking about those who fall away before they enter God's rest i.e. were never saved? They are righteous for a while but do not remain righteous?
    Do you have any ideas Ruht, does anyone else who believes in OSAS? I know it is one of the key verses for those who don't believe in OSAS."

    This passage is a good one, and quite simple if one stands firm on the foundation of grace without wavering, for this is simply referring to man's own righteousness, those who attempt salvation through their own righteousness. One must remember to apply line upon line and precept upon precept and remember that one is not saved by what one does or doesn't do, - one's own righteousness - but through the righteousness of Christ, HIS righteousness.

    You see, it is not possible for the truly righteous covered in the righteousness of Christ to "turn away," for the righteousness of Christ is secure, because Christ is indeed always righteous.

    And God 'hints' at that and bears witness to that in the 31st verse of that chapter, when he mentions the righteousness of Christ and the subsequent new birth; if you are able to discern it.

    Actually, what this chapter does is bear witness to the futility of trying to get salvation through one's own righteousness; and then the attempted turning of man by God to the righteousness of Christ. See this what Ezekiel says later:

    "Therefore thou son of man, say unto the children of the people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day he sinneth. When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust his OWN righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousness shall not be remembered; but his iniquity that he hath committed he shall die for it." - Ezekiel 33:12&13

    Therefore the self-righteous will not stand, if they sin just one time; there is no grace for the self-righteous. But he that trusts in the righteousness of Christ, he cannot fall:

    "No weapon formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of ME saith the Lord." - Isaiah 54:17

    "And be found in him, not having my OWN righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of GOD by FAITH." - Philippians 3:9

    I hope you can see this now, Berkshire. You see, you simply waivered in faith a little instead of trusting absolutely in the righteousness of Christ, and because of that doubt and a little fear you failed to look at the verse closer, and wait on God to open your eyes to it. But that will come as you learn to steadily trust in the righteousness of Christ, and stand firm on that sure foundation. Then, as God has promised, to him that hath even more shall be given; which means when you have faith in that sure foundation, God will open your eyes to more and more scripture, as it really means, not what your own fear and doubt thinks it means.
     
  13. zamar

    zamar Member

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    so where are you going with all of this? We know that our righteousness is as filthy rags. We also know that we have become the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.

    Z
     
  14. soulsisterclaire

    soulsisterclaire JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME

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    Zamar:

    No offense is meant by this, but it kinda sounds like you are saying that if I do the things that you mentioned then I have nothing to worry about. But doesn't that go against God's word that speaks that we are saved by grace not of our own works?
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    Ephesians 2:
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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    I agree that we should obey the Lord's commands, but that doesn't mean we have salvation. Salvation comes through the Blood of Christ not through anything we can do. I don't know you enough to know if you know the Gospel as it is in the Bible. If you meant something else, please accept my apology.
     
  15. zamar

    zamar Member

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    No that's not my point. I believe that we are saved by grace, not of works. I get to the point where I see all of these long post about who is or isn't saved and it gets old.

    My point is that we need to do less worrying about our salvation and get busy doing what we have been called to do. Seems like some just want to despute everyone else and in the mean time, people around us are not hearing the Gospel.

    That's all I meant by my post.

    Z
     
  16. InspectorVol

    InspectorVol Regular Member

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    Christian
  17. soulsisterclaire

    soulsisterclaire JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME

    578
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    Okay Zamar. Sorry I am kinda new here and really haven't discussed the subject ever - before coming to this forum. I do understand where you are coming from though. I am sorry if I have offended you in any way.

    However, Salvation is quite an important thing and I want to make sure that I can't ever lose it. I am quite sure now that this is just one more of Satan's schemes for me to not be secure in my Salvation. Satan is very sly though and who knows maybe OSAS is NOT true and if we Christians don't discuss it and we actually can lose Salvation by sinning(we sin till we die) then we would be at a great loss.

    While I do agree that saving souls and preaching the Gospel is our duty, many that come here to this site ARE saved, so the actual act of coming here to post takes time away from preaching the gospel doesn't it? I do not remember any verses in the Bible that speak against this sort of discussion or that tell us to ONLY be about preaching the Gospel (please correct me if I am wrong)So I feel it okay about discussing certain Biblical quandries that I may have. Again no offense Zamar. Anyway the topic wasn't supposed to be about OSAS, it was titled Satan's Influence. About whether or not he taints the Bible in anyway.
     
  18. soulsisterclaire

    soulsisterclaire JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME

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    Thank you, I will check it out!
     
  19. zamar

    zamar Member

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    Soulsisterclaire,
    You have not offended me in anyway. I agree with you and I do believe that there needs to be discussion about meaningful things.
    Your concern for maintaining your salvation is evidence enough that you will not loose it. (You cannot loose what you do not fully understand and you cannot deny the one that you do not fully know).

    It is a pleasure meeting you and I pray that great things will come to you.

    Z
     
  20. Da Berkshire Massive

    Da Berkshire Massive New Member

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