Satanic Temple unveils demonic statue at Arkansas State Capitol

[The Barbarian]

The Constitution does not state what having a religion means. As for your point, how does a bunch of atheists trolling Christians by displaying a statute of Satan remove the rights of Christians to believe in Jesus?

It doesn't, but this particular group of people feel entitled not only to practice their religion, but also to keep others from having the same rights.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

How so?

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
It doesn't, but this particular group of people feel entitled not only to practice their religion, but also to keep others from having the same rights.

How so?

They want the right to install their religious symbols on public property but don't want other religions to have the same right.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I fail to see why this would make any Christian angry. Here we have a bunch of people on the A-train to eternal damnation celebrating their journey. This should make us sad for them and inspire us to evangelize to others lest they also choose the wide path.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

They all have cites. Madison's Against Religious Assessments is well-known, as is Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists. (Barbarian checks)

Against Religious Assessements
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-08-02-0163

Letter to Danbury Baptists
https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html

Were there any others you couldn't find?



As you see, two men most responsible for the Bill of Rights clearly indicated a need for a wall of separation between church and state. As you also see, Madison cited in detail why government support of religion is intrinsically evil and harmful to both.



No, they protected individuals from state involvement in the church. They wanted the government completely out of religion.



In fact, Jefferson quite bluntly stated that his statutes of religious freedom were intended to equally protect Christians, Jews, Muslims, and "Hindoos." Since many of the founders were deists, not christians, it's not surprising that was so.

And of course, Madison, who was a committed Christian, was one of the strongest opponents of establishing Christianity in the new nation.



Yeah, I remember the old boards, where things where threaded in branching mode. Seems to be completely gone now.

Plagiarism is just lifting paragraphs without attribution. State your case in your own words, using authority for support only, please. It's impossible to pick out what someone is saying when paragraphs are lifted from elsewhere without specific attribution.

The Founding Fathers assumed the basics of the faith and indeed almost no literate or erudite person was without this basis of knowledge and practice in those days. You don't have to spell out the basics. Just like Jesus didn't have to cover every single topic; He ASSUMED a knowledge and grounding in the Law when He was preaching to His people who were under the Law. That's a stupid argument constantly trotted out by some, that if Jesus didn't specifically prohibit it, it must be fine. No...if the moral law prohibits it, it is prohibited for all time.

It is true that some of the Founders were deists. But in no fashion did they assume that the State needed to be protected from the Church. That's just false and the statements of all of them support this understanding of the common basis of morality and of God. They simply - and rightly - did not wish to create another theocracy, so that peoples of various faiths could settle in.

I'm relatively new on this board, but yeah...almost impossible to respond in an ongoing conversation with many parts, especially in a large thread. I really wish all previous statements were attached in a conversation with a specific person. That is much easier to work with.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

yeah, it really is annoying when people don't post like other people want them to. Someone should start a thread and describe the right way and the wrong way for people to post in these threads. I'd be interested in watching that thread.
tulc(was under the impression people could use the smileys as much or as little as they liked)

The lack of substantive response is indeed perplexing and a time-waster. Seems like you are just pot-stirring with no wish to actually discuss anything.

Best to do as some others and simply respond to posters who are substantively responding in good faith.

Enjoy your inappropriately placed smileys.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Then why would he have his disciples do such public things to proclaim his existence?

Distraction.

 

[The Barbarian]

Plagiarism is just lifting paragraphs without attribution.

I wasn't accusing you of plagiarism. I'm merely showing you where you can go to see that the guys who wrote the Bill of Rights opposed establishment of religion.

If you want to read the whole article, just click on the links.

The Founding Fathers assumed the basics of the faith and indeed almost no literate or erudite person was without this basis of knowledge and practice in those days.

Except for the founders who happened to be Jewish or deist, of course. That's why they extended religious freedom to all, and outlawed establishment of religion entirely. Madison's argument that religious freedom should apply to state governments as well was validated by the Fourteenth Amendment.

It is true that some of the Founders were deists. But in no fashion did they assume that the State needed to be protected from the Church.

They all recognized that the government should neither support nor restrict religion. That's why they wrote the first amendment.

That's just false

As you see, it's just a fact.

and the statements of all of them support this understanding of the common basis of morality and of God.

So how could they so strongly outlaw government support for religion, while being devout Christians? Madison explains:
Because experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of Religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. Enquire of the Teachers of Christianity for the ages in which it appeared in its greatest lustre; those of every sect, point to the ages prior to its incorporation with Civil policy. Propose a restoration of this primitive State in which its Teachers depended on the voluntary rewards of their flocks, many of them predict its downfall. On which Side ought their testimony to have greatest weight, when for or when against their interest?
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-08-02-0163

Madison quite rightly feared that the horrors of establishment seen in Europe would come to the United States. So he strongly denounced any encroachment by any religion on the state.

They simply - and rightly - did not wish to create another theocracy, so that peoples of various faiths could settle in.

More than that, they banned any sort of establishment whatever. Wisely so. For as you see, imposing the Ten Commandments on public property means any other religion also gets to put their stuff up on the same site. Is that what you really want?

 

[tulc]

The lack of substantive response is indeed perplexing and a time-waster. Seems like you are just pot-stirring with no wish to actually discuss anything.

Or I simply don't agree with something that's said and say so. If the person who I disagree with supplies some sort of proof for what they say I'll respond to that. If the whole of their argument is "This is how it is prove me wrong!" then it's just one guy on the internet expressing his opinion and opinions are like noses: everyone has one and they can pick their own.

Best to do as some others and simply respond to posters who are substantively responding in good faith.

That is completely up to you. ...of course that also means if you post something I disagree with I can respond to it as well. That's how these boards work.

Enjoy your inappropriately placed smileys.

I'm not sure they're inappropriately placed. I think inappropriately placed smilies would look a lot more like that, instead of like this.--->
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

 

[drjean]

Using smilies can be flaming on CF, and if someone who is on the receiving end deems them inappropriate, it's probably flaming.

Anyway... whether people believe the history and basic foundations of the USA we ARE a Judeo-Christian nation and our God is Almighty God... not any other. This is one reason why Islamism should not be acceptable as they demand people worship allah as God. This statue is a god to the satanists.

The ONLY good thing is that the moslems will probably have it removed as they have worked at doing for ALL our statues in this country.

 

[The Barbarian]

Using smilies can be flaming on CF, and if someone who is on the receiving end deems them inappropriate, it's probably flaming.

Anyway... whether people believe the history and basic foundations of the USA we ARE a Judeo-Christian nation.

Hmmm...

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Article 11 of the Treaty with Tripoli, negotiated by President George Washington, signed by President John Adams, and ratified by a Senate composed of the soldiers and statesmen of the American Revolution

(My emphasis)

Again, the founders expressed the difference between a nation of Christians, which they were, and a nation governed by a Christian government, which was not.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Barbarian observes:
It doesn't, but this particular group of people feel entitled not only to practice their religion, but also to keep others from having the same rights.



They want the right to install their religious symbols on public property but don't want other religions to have the same right.

The Satanists?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

LoL, never mind

 

[pgp_protector]

Using smilies can be flaming on CF, and if someone who is on the receiving end deems them inappropriate, it's probably flaming.

Anyway... whether people believe the history and basic foundations of the USA we ARE a Judeo-Christian nation and our God is Almighty God... not any other. This is one reason why Islamism should not be acceptable as they demand people worship allah as God. This statue is a god to the satanists.

The ONLY good thing is that the moslems will probably have it removed as they have worked at doing for ALL our statues in this country.

Strange for a "Judeo-Christian" Nation we seem to allow quite a lot of worshiping of other Gods.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

And built protections to allow it into the Constitution...

 

[Arcangl86]

@drjean, maybe you missed my question, so here it is again. How does a bunch of atheists trolling Christians wit ha statute of Satan take away our the rights of Christians to worship Jesus?

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
It doesn't, but this particular group of people feel entitled not only to practice their religion, but also to keep others from having the same rights.

They want the right to install their religious symbols on public property but don't want other religions to have the same right.

The Satanists?

Well, I don't think they are declared Satanists...

http://cdn.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Pat-Robertson-7-29-13-3x2.jpg
https://imgix.bustle.com/lovelace/u...76e5725d9d.JPG?w=646&fit=max&auto=format&q=70

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I’m just trying to figure out how the Satanists are preventing people from following their chosen religion.

Also, I don’t click links in forums.
Nothing personal, just hard lessons learned hard ways.

 

[The Barbarian]

I’m just trying to figure out how the Satanists are preventing people from following their chosen religion.

Also, I don’t click links in forums.
Nothing personal, just hard lessons learned hard ways.

You could do your own search. Those documents are readily available from many different sources.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Not knowing what “those documents” are, that makes it tough.