Satanic Temple announces a Satanic Ritual Abortion

[TLK Valentine]

Given the fact that so many Christians think atheism and other forms of non-belief are actually religious beliefs--I think they are getting what they asked for. If religious people are going to claim that secular humanism is a religious belief, then how do they counter the claim from the Satanic Temple?

The funny thing is how it was just explained to me that Satanism "isn't a religion" but somehow, Christianity is. This has certainly come full circle from the old arguments that Christianity isn't "a religion" but rather, "a personal relationship with Jesus Christ."

But then again, we have come to the point where those same people want the government to regulate relationships but not religions, so I suppose coming full circle was inevitable.

 

[Caliban]

The funny thing is how it was just explained to me that Satanism "isn't a religion" but somehow, Christianity is. This has certainly come full circle from the old arguments that Christianity isn't "a religion" but rather, "a personal relationship with Jesus Christ."

But then again, we have come to the point where those same people want the government to regulate relationships but not religions, so I suppose coming full circle was inevitable.

They always want to have it both ways. That is why they are always so interested in ambiguity and "mystery."

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

This law would have to include something that grants a fetus the same rights a living person has, which strikes me as very unrealistic.

Except that criminal law already recognizes a baby in utero as a person in many states, which is why a perp can be charged with two counts of murder if he kills a pregnant woman.

 

[Caliban]

exactly so regardless of the law you would remain just as much a person as you have always been. The same is true for the unborn child, it was a human person from conception.

Whether it is human at conception is not the argument that pro choice supporters make. No one think it isn't a human. They are also not claiming that every human at every stage of development has the right to be birthed by the mother after months of biological dependency. It would probably be best to steel man your opponent's position and compose your counterclaim accordingly.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

If a human person exists from the moment of conception--under the law--that means that a death certificate would have to be issued for every zygote which fails to implant and a coroner's inquest held whenever the cause of that failure is unclear. As a practical matter, how will that be handled?

I am sure that the advocates of smaller government will find a way.

 

[disciple Clint]

Breathing on their own starts to happen at birth. That’s a pretty big change.

But that is not related to the question of being a human person. If I am on a ventilator that breathes for me am I no longer a human person?

 

[Sketcher]

The funny thing is how it was just explained to me that Satanism "isn't a religion" but somehow, Christianity is. This has certainly come full circle from the old arguments that Christianity isn't "a religion" but rather, "a personal relationship with Jesus Christ."

"Old" arguments that are very historically recent, and that are only held by a fraction of Christians, and that rely on a strawman's definition of "religion" that the New Testament authors did not hold to. That said, I will not fault a fellow Christian for growing out of saying it.

 

[disciple Clint]

But for that to have any legal authority nationwide, the Constitution will have to be amended. Just like it required the 14th Amendment for Black people to have the same legal rights as anyone else in every state.

why do you say that? the court can solve this problem.

 

[disciple Clint]

If a human person exists from the moment of conception--under the law--that means that a death certificate would have to be issued for every zygote which fails to implant and a coroner's inquest held whenever the cause of that failure is unclear. As a practical matter, how will that be handled?

That would be up to state law.

 

[jayem]

why do you say that? the court can solve this problem.

How would any court do that?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

If I am on a ventilator that breathes for me am I no longer a human person?

If you are brain dead and machines are keeping you alive are you a human person anymore ?

 

[disciple Clint]

How would any court do that?

Well the court created the problem with a terrible and incorrect decision on Roe V Wade they can resolve it with another decision.

 

[Pommer]

So if tomorrow the court tells you that you are no longer a person, how exactly have you changed?

If one died you’d no longer be a “person”.

 

[disciple Clint]

If you are brain dead and machines are keeping you alive are you a human person anymore ?

Yes I would just be another brain dead human person

 

[disciple Clint]

If one died you’d no longer be a “person”.

No I would be a dead human person.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

No I would be a dead human person.

So corpses should have human rights now ?

Only thing getting more brain dead than coma people on life support machines is this thread.

 

[disciple Clint]

So corpses should have human rights now ?

Only thing getting more brain dead than coma people on life support machines is this thread.

So why dont you work on fixing that by accepting the fact that people are going to disagree and have different viewpoints. That does not require insulting them and believing that your viewpoint is the only possible correct one.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

That does not require insulting them and believing that your viewpoint is the only possible correct one.

What kind of viewpoint is it that corpses are people ?

How would you justify that kind of perception ?

It seems illogical, lunatic and crazy but perhaps you have some great justification for it.

Holding my breath once again.

 

[disciple Clint]

What kind of viewpoint is it that corpses are people ?

How would you justify that kind of perception ?

It seems illogical, lunatic and crazy but perhaps you have some great justification for it.

Holding my breath once again.

Are you suggesting that when you die you are going to turn into something other than a human person, and what would that be some kind of animal or fish or what? A dead person is still a human person and is entitled to all the respect befitting a dead human person. If a person is clinically dead and then is revived and returns to life was he not a human person while he was not living, but now he is a human person again because he is alive again? Now that would be illogical, lunatic and crazy wouldn't it? But that is what you are proposing isn't?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Are you suggesting that when you die you are going to turn into something other than a human person, and what would that be some kind of animal or fish or what?

Yes, I am proposing when you die you turn to corpse.

Corpses are not persons any more but they are accorded respect according to any particular cultures traditions.

Some more some less.

Haven’t heard of anyone turning to goldfish yet.

As for being clinically dead that is quite dependent on your definition.

Do you feel that Jesus rising from the dead was no greater feat than these being clinically dead you can control with some electric shocks ?

Kind of cheapens the miracle.