Sanctification: Catholics and Protestants talk

[zippy2006]

Here, I believe, is the primary difference between Protestant and Catholic understandings of sanctification. The Catholic Church conflates justification and sanctification.

The Catholic Church says that justification includes some measure of sanctification:

This disposition or preparation is followed by justification itself, which is not only a remission of sins but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes a friend, that he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting. (Titus 3:7) -Council of Trent, Decree on Justification, Chapter XII

If anyone says that men are justified either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, (Romans 5:5) and remains in them, or also that the grace by which we are justified is only the good will of God, let him be anathema. -Council of Trent, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 11​

The Bible presents them as being separate and distinct acts of God's grace.

Where does the Bible do that?

In the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, the Lutheran World Federation agreed that justification has a sanctifying effect (see paragraphs 22-24).

 

[bbbbbbb]

The Catholic Church says that justification includes some measure of sanctification:

This disposition or preparation is followed by justification itself, which is not only a remission of sins but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes a friend, that he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting. (Titus 3:7) -Council of Trent, Decree on Justification, Chapter XII

If anyone says that men are justified either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, (Romans 5:5) and remains in them, or also that the grace by which we are justified is only the good will of God, let him be anathema. -Council of Trent, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 11​

Where does the Bible do that?

In the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, the Lutheran World Federation agreed that justification has a sanctifying effect (see paragraphs 22-24).

The question ought to be where does the Bible conflate justification with sanctification? In the extensive usages of both words I am unaware that they are ever used synonymously. Please provide any Biblical evidence where they are used as such.

Thank you.

 

[zippy2006]

The question ought to be where does the Bible conflate justification with sanctification?

No, you made a statement and I expect that you will either support or renounce that statement. The statement is as follows:

The Bible presents them as being separate and distinct acts of God's grace.

If you have no support for such a statement then you are free to renounce it.

 

[bbbbbbb]

No, you made a statement and I expect that you will either support or renounce that statement. The statement is as follows:

If you have no support for such a statement then you are free to renounce it.

It is like stating that no where does the Bible talk about cell phones and then being asked to prove the statement.

You know, as well as anyone, that sanctification and justification are two separate and distinct concepts which are only synonymous with each other in Catholic theology even as the Catholic Church conflates their priesthood with biblical (married) elders.

 

[zippy2006]

It is like stating that no where does the Bible talk about cell phones and then being asked to prove the statement.

It's not like that at all. You didn't say, "Nowhere in the Bible will you find..." You said, "The Bible presents them as being separate..." If it presents them as being separate then it must do so in at least one place in the Bible. Where is that place?

The problem is that you made a specious claim that you have no ability to justify. You said something that you have no reason to believe is true, for you have no support for that which you said. Next time you make a claim about what the Bible says, try to actually be able to provide support for your claim.

 

[concretecamper]

RCC Teaching

The causes of this justification are:

the final cause is the glory of God and of Christ and life everlasting; the efficient cause is the merciful God who washes and sanctifies[31] gratuitously, signing and anointing with the holy Spirit of promise, who is the pledge of our inheritance,[32] the meritorious cause is His most beloved only begotten, our Lord Jesus Christ, who, when we were enemies,[33] for the exceeding charity wherewith he loved us,[34] merited for us justification by His most holy passion on the wood of the cross and made satisfaction for us to God the Father, the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith,[35] without which no man was ever justified finally, the single formal cause is the justice of God, not that by which He Himself is just, but that by which He makes us just, that, namely, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind,[36] and not only are we reputed but we are truly called and are just, receiving justice within us, each one according to his own measure, which the Holy Ghost distributes to everyone as He wills,[37] and according to each one’s disposition and cooperation.

 

[zippy2006]

In the extensive usages of both words I am unaware that they are ever used synonymously. Please provide any Biblical evidence where they are used as such.

As has already been noted, you mischaracterize Catholicism by saying that we believe they are synonymous. Just because something includes another thing does not make the two things synonymous. Birthday cake includes frosting. This doesn't mean cake and frosting are synonymous. Now you asked for scriptural support after realizing that you had no scriptural support of your own.

Paul lists as a result of justification that, "God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us":

Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us. (Romans 5:1-5)
​

Doers of the law will be justified:

For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. (Romans 2:13)
​

Justification is accompanied by regeneration, renewal, and hope of eternal life:

he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:5-7)
​

We are justified by works and not by faith alone, therefore true justification will include works:

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead. (James 2:24-26)
​

Faith without love is worth nothing, therefore true justification will include love:

and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:2b)​

 

[ViaCrucis]

Sanctification, in Lutheran thinking, is a tricky animal. Such a conversation on that topic was happening recently over at Theologia Crucis, the Lutheran board here on CF (discussion here: Do the pastors in your Lutheran churches ever talk about this?)

It's tricky, because as Lutherans we want to be super precise in our language, and give no quarter to confusion between Law and Gospel, making that distinction very, very clear. Talk about sanctification can easily give rise to Legalism on the one hand and Antinomianism on the other if we're not very careful.

If I were to offer something of what I would consider a concise statement on the subject--to the best of my knowledge and abilities--it would be something like this (and it echoes things I said in the above linked discussion):

Sanctification is about the Spirit keeping us in faith, in Christ, centered upon the Gospel, the Sacraments, and the life of the Church, to walk in the new obedience which is from God, for the good of our neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[bbbbbbb]

Sanctification, in Lutheran thinking, is a tricky animal. Such a conversation on that topic was happening recently over at Theologia Crucis, the Lutheran board here on CF (discussion here: Do the pastors in your Lutheran churches ever talk about this?)

It's tricky, because as Lutherans we want to be super precise in our language, and give no quarter to confusion between Law and Gospel, making that distinction very, very clear. Talk about sanctification can easily give rise to Legalism on the one hand and Antinomianism on the other if we're not very careful.

If I were to offer something of what I would consider a concise statement on the subject--to the best of my knowledge and abilities--it would be something like this (and it echoes things I said in the above linked discussion):

Sanctification is about the Spirit keeping us in faith, in Christ, centered upon the Gospel, the Sacraments, and the life of the Church, to walk in the new obedience which is from God, for the good of our neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran

I like your definition. Thank you.

 

[FireDragon76]

Calvinism tends to separate sanctification from justification moreso than Lutherans do, in my experience.

For us Lutherans, sanctification is related to vocation, and what it means to be sanctified must be contextualized within ones vocation. That's one area we differ with some holiness churches, who believe in some kind of method or formula for holiness, often separated from the ordinary means of grace.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Calvinism tends to separate sanctification from justification moreso than Lutherans do, in my experience.

For us Lutherans, sanctification is related to vocation, and what it means to be sanctified must be contextualized within ones vocation. That's one area we differ with some holiness churches, who believe in some kind of method or formula for holiness, often separated from the ordinary means of grace.

The difference lies much deeper, in that Lutherans, as I understand matters, are the only denomination which believes in "means of grace". so that "ordinary means of grace" is utterly meaningless to other Protestants.

 

[FireDragon76]

The difference lies much deeper, in that Lutherans, as I understand matters, are the only denomination which believes in "means of grace". so that "ordinary means of grace" is utterly meaningless to other Protestants.

Not at all, traditionally the Reformed (including Episcopalians) also believe in the ordinary means of grace. Though 19th century Revivalism attacked the traditional Reformed faith in this regard, there were theologians and churchmen such as Philip Schaff that insisted on the importance of the ordinary means of grace.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Not at all, traditionally the Reformed (including Episcopalians) also believe in the ordinary means of grace. Though 19th century Revivalism attacked the traditional Reformed faith in this regard, there were theologians and churchmen such as Philip Schaff that insisted on the importance of the ordinary means of grace.

Although this is true, it is also history and, unfortunately or fortunately, not the current reality. Were you to pose a question regarding "ordinary means of grace" to non-Lutherans today most, other than perhaps some theologians and clergymen, would be quite unfamiliar with that term.

 

[Phil 1:21]

In the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, the Lutheran World Federation agreed that justification has a sanctifying effect (see paragraphs 22-24).

Does the corn stalk become a corn stalk before or after it sprouts ears of corn?

 

[Jeepneytravel]

Genesis 2 God sanctified the seventh day of the week, so why don't "christians' follow it for their sanctification?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Genesis 2 God sanctified the seventh day of the week, so why don't "christians' follow it for their sanctification?

God made the seventh day holy, and for which reason He instructed the Jews to rest on it as part of the covenant He made with them at Mt. Horeb. Christians, however, are not under the covenant which God established with Israel on Mt. Horeb, but rather we believe and confess that the promises and covenants which God made with those of old, the patriarchs and the prophets, have their fulfillment and true substance in Jesus Christ our Lord. The sabbath rest, therefore, points ultimately to Christ; this rest, the author of Hebrews says is today (Hebrews 4:7), the substance of the Sabbath is found in Christ, as the Apostle writes, "Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink or of observing festivals, new moons, or sabbaths. These are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ." (Colossians 2:16-17). Our rest, therefore, is in Christ from whom today, through faith, we have rest from our labors, as our Lord Himself said, "Come to Me all you who are weary and are weighed down by burdens, I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28). For the Christian, therefore, the weekly sabbath of the Jews has its fullness in Jesus, and our rest is found today, not specific days of the week, but here and now by our hope and trust in Jesus Christ our Lord by the promise and grace of God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[bbbbbbb]

God made the seventh day holy, and for which reason He instructed the Jews to rest on it as part of the covenant He made with them at Mt. Horeb. Christians, however, are not under the covenant which God established with Israel on Mt. Horeb, but rather we believe and confess that the promises and covenants which God made with those of old, the patriarchs and the prophets, have their fulfillment and true substance in Jesus Christ our Lord. The sabbath rest, therefore, points ultimately to Christ; this rest, the author of Hebrews says is today (Hebrews 4:7), the substance of the Sabbath is found in Christ, as the Apostle writes, "Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink or of observing festivals, new moons, or sabbaths. These are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ." (Colossians 2:16-17). Our rest, therefore, is in Christ from whom today, through faith, we have rest from our labors, as our Lord Himself said, "Come to Me all you who are weary and are weighed down by burdens, I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28). For the Christian, therefore, the weekly sabbath of the Jews has its fullness in Jesus, and our rest is found today, not specific days of the week, but here and now by our hope and trust in Jesus Christ our Lord by the promise and grace of God.

-CryptoLutheran

Well said.

 

[Albion]

Although this is true, it is also history and, unfortunately or fortunately, not the current reality. Were you to pose a question regarding "ordinary means of grace" to non-Lutherans today most, other than perhaps some theologians and clergymen, would be quite unfamiliar with that term.

I don't actually think that's true, although I am thinking mainly of the older churches and, obviously, not modern fundamentalists or Pentecostals, etc.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I don't actually think that's true, although I am thinking mainly of the older churches and, obviously, not modern fundamentalists or Pentecostals, etc.

I cannot say with certainty that it is true. However, in my formative years in a United Presbyterian Church directly across the street from its seminary, I never once heard the term "means of grace" even in my confirmation classes. I suspect that this is true for most Presbyterian Churches, if not Congregational and Methodist churches.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

God made the seventh day holy, and for which reason He instructed the Jews to rest on it as part of the covenant He made with them at Mt. Horeb. Christians, however, are not under the covenant which God established with Israel on Mt. Horeb, but rather we believe and confess that the promises and covenants which God made with those of old, the patriarchs and the prophets, have their fulfillment and true substance in Jesus Christ our Lord. The sabbath rest, therefore, points ultimately to Christ; this rest, the author of Hebrews says is today (Hebrews 4:7), the substance of the Sabbath is found in Christ, as the Apostle writes, "Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink or of observing festivals, new moons, or sabbaths. These are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ." (Colossians 2:16-17). Our rest, therefore, is in Christ from whom today, through faith, we have rest from our labors, as our Lord Himself said, "Come to Me all you who are weary and are weighed down by burdens, I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28). For the Christian, therefore, the weekly sabbath of the Jews has its fullness in Jesus, and our rest is found today, not specific days of the week, but here and now by our hope and trust in Jesus Christ our Lord by the promise and grace of God.

The seventh day Holy day was brought in at Creation before any Jew, Gentiles etc roamed the earth..it was brought in for all human kind....and forever...it was sanctified by God which made it the only Holy day in the Bible.
You quote Col 2 as your excuse for not following it...don't you know Col 2 pertains to the law of Moses, the sacrificial system that was eliminated in Acts 15? Try reading the entire Col 2 and you will see.
The weekly Sabbath never ends as it was also written on stone by God in Exodus 20 as part of the ten commandments.