public hermit

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I dunno, if there's some good looking women in there I might sneak a peek. Might even see if I can get a locker next to one of 'em.

That's on you. Naked women are everywhere, all the time, right at your fingertips. If it makes that much of a difference seeing one in the flesh, then look I guess. The naked human body is not taboo, unless you think it is. I think, as Christians, we should celebrate and recognize the beauty of God's creation. Now, if lust and inordinate desire are an issue, perhaps looking is not a good idea. But that can be determined just by the things we look at when no one is around. A naked person in the flesh is not the problem.
 
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Ringo84

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To be honest I would rather trust that God was right in his word than trust in my own 'facts' OR opinion because frankly you can find the scripture to back up.

This is the written word of God in the Holy Bible - "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” (Leviticus 20:13 repeats this law, along with a punishment for those who violate it: “They shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.”)


I didn't write the Bible...
Fantastic! So I guess we'll also refrain from wearing clothes woven from two materials? Eating cloved animals? Eating goat cooked in its mother's milk?

Hey, "I didn't write the Bible". It says "their blood is upon them", so it's perfectly fine to put 'the gays' to death, right? Gotta follow the book...
Ringo
 
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Ringo84

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If a persons sexuality is no one's concern, why is there an LGBT movement to promote same sex bathrooms?

How is this disproving the idea that sexuality is nobody's concern?

when a group of people are essentially saying "please take note of my sexuality and here's the changes I want made to accomodate my sexuality" then it becomes a concern.

Why?

Some people, for whatever reasons-some of them sexual I would guess- may not be comfortable with same-sex bathrooms. What's wrong with that?

Disliking something is not a reason to deny people the right to use whatever bathroom they like.

Edit: Btw, I don't disagree with the "none of these things is true" portion of your comment. SugarCookies does seem to be professing the darkest of outcomes in this.

Fair enough.
Ringo
 
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Sabertooth

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I just don't think this is the bane and downfall of human existence that it's put out as.
Doesn't the Establishment Clause prohibit the law from imposing a doctrine of "laissez-faire" nudism on society?

(Getting back to locker rooms) the majority does not accept such shared nudism as healthy, and should not be forced to embrace it anyway.

(There are venues for those who do embrace that doctrine.)
 
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That's on you. Naked women are everywhere, all the time, right at your fingertips. If it makes that much of a difference seeing one in the flesh, then look I guess. The naked human body is not taboo, unless you think it is. I think, as Christians, we should celebrate and recognize the beauty of God's creation. Now, if lust and inordinate desire are an issue, perhaps looking is not a good idea. But that can be determined just by the things we look at when no one is around. A naked person in the flesh is not the problem.
I don't have a bunch of naked women right at my fingertips. And I agree, the human body shouldn't be considered taboo. So I'm guessing you feel clothing should be optional in the workplace, restaurants, etc... We can celebrate God's creation at a strip club per your viewpoint, I suppose. Lust and desire is a natural human reaction, often triggered by a naked person.
 
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public hermit

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Doesn't the Establishment Clause prohibit the law from imposing a doctrine of "laissez-faire" nudism on society?

(Getting back to locker rooms) the majority does not accept such shared nudism as healthy, and should not be forced to embrace it anyway.

(There are venues for those who do embrace that doctrine.)

Lol, doctrine? I really don't know what you're referring to. It doesn't matter. It's already obvious many people are very concerned about what others do in the bathroom. Strange, but true.
 
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public hermit

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I don't have a bunch of naked women right at my fingertips. And I agree, the human body shouldn't be considered taboo. So I'm guessing you feel clothing should be optional in the workplace, restaurants, etc... We can celebrate God's creation at a strip club per your viewpoint, I suppose. Lust and desire is a natural human reaction, often triggered by a naked person.

No, I'm saying what another person does in the bathroom, or that with which they do it, doesn't matter. Naked bodies, of whatever kind, in a lockeroom don't matter. Certainly, for the Christian these are non-issues. What do they have to do with us. Will you be a worse Christian because some transsexual changed clothes next to you? I doubt it. And, if it does mean you'll be a worse Christian the problem runs deeper than the one next to you. When did our faith depend on what others do?
 
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Sabertooth

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Lol, doctrine? I really don't know what you're referring to.
If you insist on spinning the issue, you can try to remain obtuse.
The view that public coed nudity is healthy & positive is a tenet of Naturism (a cultural movement), which is a minority. To force the rest of us to embrace it as normal violates the Establishment Clause.

"You must legally accept coed public nudism, whether you like it or not."
 
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public hermit

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If you insist on spinning the issue, you can try to remain obtuse.
The view that public coed nudity is healthy & positive is a tenet of Naturism (a cultural movement), which is a minority. To force the rest of us to embrace it as normal violates the Establishment Clause.

"You must legally accept coed public nudism, whether you like it or not."

Again, what are you talking about? I am not suggesting public nudity. We are talking about transgenders in bathrooms and locker rooms.

When did the things other people do determine your faith? Never. So, why has this become the thing? If you say it will be the ruin of society, which is debatable, then my question stands. When did the conditions of society determine a Christian's faith? It doesn't, can't, and never has.
 
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If a persons sexuality is no one's concern, why is there an LGBT movement to promote same sex bathrooms?
How is this disproving the idea that sexuality is nobody's concern?

I thought I explained why in the next quote of mine you highlighted.

when a group of people are essentially saying "please take note of my sexuality and here's the changes I want made to accomodate my sexuality" then it becomes a concern.
Why?

Seriously? Because the whole movement is based on sexuality. Maybe 'concerned' is too strong of a word but how can one say my sexuality is none of your business when he/she is waving it in your face with flags and parades and demands for changes to the current norm. I'm not saying the movement is wrong, but I am saying you can't have it both ways Ringo. I mean isn't the movement essentially saying please consider my sexuality?

Some people, for whatever reasons-some of them sexual I would guess- may not be comfortable with same-sex bathrooms. What's wrong with that?
Disliking something is not a reason to deny people the right to use whatever bathroom they like.

If they feel uncofortable with it I think they should have the right to voice their opinion and reasons.
Disliking someone's position on a matter is not a reason to deny their right to argue for it.

Edit: Btw, I don't disagree with the "none of these things is true" portion of your comment. SugarCookies does seem to be professing the darkest of outcomes in this.

Fair enough.
Ringo[/QUOTE]
 
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Ringo84

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e 'concerned' is too strong of a word but how can one say my sexuality is none of your business when he/she is waving it in your face with flags and parades and demands for changes to the current norm. I'm not saying the movement is wrong, but I am saying you can't have it both ways Ringo. I mean isn't the movement essentially saying please consider my sexuality?

It seems to me that the mere existence of LGBTQ+ people is "waving it in your face" in your mind, and this is still not a reason to disallow same sex bathrooms.

Disliking something is not a reason to deny people the right to use whatever bathroom they like.
If they feel uncofortable with it I think they should have the right to voice their opinion and reasons.
Disliking someone's position on a matter is not a reason to deny their right to argue for it.

Exactly my point.
Ringo
 
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No, I'm saying what another person does in the bathroom, or that with which they do it, doesn't matter. Naked bodies, of whatever kind, in a lockeroom don't matter. Certainly, for the Christian these are non-issues. What do they have to do with us. Will you be a worse Christian because some transsexual changed clothes next to you? I doubt it. And, if it does mean you'll be a worse Christian the problem runs deeper than the one next to you. When did our faith depend on what others do?
Uh-oh, wait a minute. You keep saying "transexual". Maybe we're not talking about the same thing here ( I'm not entirely up to speed on the terminology/subject). I need some clarification 'cuz I'm under the impression we're talking about non-gender locker rooms. Where men and women share the same locker room. Is this not the case?
 
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Sabertooth

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We are talking about transgenders in bathrooms and locker rooms.
We are talking about people with exposed penes in the same room with people with exposed vulvae in a public venue. It is known as indecent exposure, a misdemeanor* in our current laws.

*Depending on the state, repeated charges (at some point) are considered to be a felony.
 
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I think we need to ask ourselves: is this truly the problem we're making it out to be, or are we just extremely delicate about seeing parts that probably should be familiar to mature, grown adults? Because whether we're talking about Trans individuals sharing bathrooms with women (the horror) or co-ed bathrooms, neither seems like a particularly major deal to me....at all.
Ringo
 
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I think we need to ask ourselves: is this truly the problem we're making it out to be, or are we just extremely delicate about seeing parts that probably should be familiar to mature, grown adults?
It sets up a misdemeanor-cum-felony, no matter how much you rationalize it.
 
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It sets up a misdemeanor-cum-felony.

Not a lawyer, but it seems like in a locker room you would expect there to be nudity. Saying that co-ed and/or same-sex bathrooms would lead to a "felony" strikes me as a major overreaction.
Ringo
 
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We are talking about people with exposed penes in the same room with people with exposed vulvae in a public venue. It is known as indecent exposure, a misdemeanor* in our current laws.

*Depending on the state, repeated charges (at some point) are considered to be a felony.

I get what you're saying, now. Does it apply when someone is defacating or changing into gym shorts, or just when someone exposes themselves in the form of sexual assault? I think the answer is clear. Defecation and changing clothes is not sexual assault.
 
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Not a lawyer, but it seems like in a locker room you would expect there to be nudity.
Nudity with like gonads is expected. Somebody with the wrong set is the definition of "indecent exposure."
Saying that co-ed and/or same-sex bathrooms would lead to a "felony" strikes me as a major overreaction.
Such incidents being repeated are the basis for a felony, even if you don't approve.
 
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e 'concerned' is too strong of a word but how can one say my sexuality is none of your business when he/she is waving it in your face with flags and parades and demands for changes to the current norm. I'm not saying the movement is wrong, but I am saying you can't have it both ways Ringo. I mean isn't the movement essentially saying please consider my sexuality?
It seems to me that the mere existence of LGBTQ+ people is "waving it in your face" in your mind, and this is still not a reason to disallow same sex bathrooms.


Disliking something is not a reason to deny people the right to use whatever bathroom they like.
If they feel uncofortable with it I think they should have the right to voice their opinion and reasons.
Disliking someone's position on a matter is not a reason to deny their right to argue for it.

Exactly my point.

Pffft! Both your responses are weak, Ringo. Why don't you answer the question instead of making me out to be a phobe. I'll ask it again:
isn't the movement essentially saying please consider my sexuality?
And no, it's not exactly your point. Quite the opposite. I'm not denying the LGBT position at all. I personally don't have a problem with same sex bathrooms. Makes no difference to me at all. But I am saying those opposed shouldn't be railroaded by the current hot topic fueled by media whose first and foremost purpose is to find something newsworthy to fill their time slots and sell advertising. You, on the other hand, seem to be shaking your head with arms crossed at any counterpoint to your postition. Why can't a woman's reason for being uncomfortable with a man in the restroom be just as valid as a transgender's reasons for feeling uncomfortable using the mens's room?
s
 
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